Why did nobody respond to the hit by Adam Mair ---I mean, Radko Gudas?

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Dr Quincy

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My question is, whats the down side to guys sticking up for a teammate? IMO thats just the way it's supposed to work. Does doing so cause the team to lose? Do the fans not like it?

For all those claiming it does not help in any way, how does it hurt?
Every decision has a potential downside. This one is easy: Chara steps in, punches Gudas in the head. Breaks his hand and is gone for 2 months.

What helps thw team win more: a preseason fight or Chara?
 

Therick67

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Every decision has a potential downside. This one is easy: Chara steps in, punches Gudas in the head. Breaks his hand and is gone for 2 months.

What helps thw team win more: a preseason fight or Chara?

Everything in life has a potential downside.

Why step in front of a slapshot, it could break your hand and put you out 6 weeks.

Why practice the day before the season starts, you could hurt your ankle and possibly miss the season.

Why have pre-season tournaments, you could get a concussion, or have any number of things happen.

Why play Patrice bergeron in the pre-season, he could get hurt and miss the opener.

Does any scenario exist where a teammate could stick up for a teammate?
 

Artemis

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Gudas received a minor penalty on the play in question. He continued to play the remainder of the game. Yes it appears most teammates missed the actual hit in live time. But there IS a Jumbotron, I'm sure they all saw the replay. Someone should have skated over & dropped gloves at some point.

How are you so sure?

There are times when players watch the jumbotron, and there are times when they're otherwise occupied. I can't state with certainty that they all saw it, or that it was played more than once, if at all.

But if a delayed reaction is OK, what difference does it make whether someone fights Gudas in the third period, or the next time they play the Flyers? I recall many here apoplectic about Thornton fighting Cooke in a later game, that it was too little, too late. Looks to me that unless a teammate springs into instant action, they'll be blasted. Perhaps if we put ourselves into the players' shoes and try to understand what's going on from their POV we might be a bit less quick to judge.

At any rate, Czarnick is OK and Gudas took a significant hit in the wallet, which should hurt him much more than a punch to the helmet.
 

Sheppy

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So the overall lesson of this thread is: Don't stand up for teammates because the game has changed and it will have zero effect.
 

BruinDust

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So the overall lesson of this thread is: Don't stand up for teammates because the game has changed and it will have zero effect.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't think there is one.

But I'll throw this out there.

Last year, the Toronto Maple Leafs were 28th overall in fighting majors with 10. They finished in 30th place.

The Pittsburgh Penguins were 29th overall in fighting majors with 9. They won the Stanley Cup.

So it sure seems like talent has more to do with winning than throwing punches at opposing players heads, whether it is to fire up the team, or in defense of a teammate.
 

Sheppy

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Again, it doesn't even NEED to be a fight... just some sort of push back.

That said, in 2011 the Bruins had 71 fighting majors (2nd) and won the cup. The year they made the cup finals, they were 4th in majors.

Has the game changed? Yeah, sure... a little, but it's not as drastic of a change where your whole teams mentality of what made them successful in the past is completely gone.
 
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BigGoalBrad

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Noone is also mentioning how sneaky/dirty a hit it was. I don't think the other guys on the ice saw it. Czarnik was bracing for a hit from a forward and Gudass blind sided him. The players likely thought the hit wasn't from Gudas.

When Bruins saw him on the ice they could have assumed Czarnik just didn't take an ordinary hit (from the forward) well and was down and had no clue Gudas even hit him. Players were focused on the puck/trying to score probably focused on the point man and there own positioning prior to Czarnik even moving the puck (they see him on the wall and assume hes going to make the play to the point) so I think the thread is a big overreaction.
 

BklyNBruiN

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Everything in life has a potential downside.

Why step in front of a slapshot, it could break your hand and put you out 6 weeks.

Why practice the day before the season starts, you could hurt your ankle and possibly miss the season.

Why have pre-season tournaments, you could get a concussion, or have any number of things happen.

Why play Patrice bergeron in the pre-season, he could get hurt and miss the opener.

Does any scenario exist where a teammate could stick up for a teammate?

Well said, if we lived our life that way we'd be in big trouble..

So the overall lesson of this thread is: Don't stand up for teammates because the game has changed and it will have zero effect.

Pretty much.. :shakehead
 

Therick67

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I don't know what the answer is. I don't think there is one.

But I'll throw this out there.

Last year, the Toronto Maple Leafs were 28th overall in fighting majors with 10. They finished in 30th place.

The Pittsburgh Penguins were 29th overall in fighting majors with 9. They won the Stanley Cup.

So it sure seems like talent has more to do with winning than throwing punches at opposing players heads, whether it is to fire up the team, or in defense of a teammate.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't stick up for a teammate - it's been a part of the game for a long time.
 

BklyNBruiN

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Noone is also mentioning how sneaky/dirty a hit it was. I don't think the other guys on the ice saw it. Czarnik was bracing for a hit from a forward and Gudass blind sided him. The players likely thought the hit wasn't from Gudas.

When Bruins saw him on the ice they could have assumed Czarnik just didn't take an ordinary hit (from the forward) well and was down and had no clue Gudas even hit him. Players were focused on the puck/trying to score probably focused on the point man and there own positioning prior to Czarnik even moving the puck (they see him on the wall and assume hes going to make the play to the point) so I think the thread is a big overreaction.

That hit was a deliberate hit to injure, too hurt someone badly. Honestly that was an assault, no doubt about it! Again he knew what he wanted to do by blindsiding him and he did it. He wanted to make the highlight reel with a huge hit and he made it.

Also I don't think Gudas really gives a damn that the league gave him 6 games.
 

Spanky185

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So the overall lesson of this thread is: Don't stand up for teammates because the game has changed and it will have zero effect.

Here's another baseball analogy:

Prior to instant replay managers (some more than others *coughLouPinellacough*) would argue with the umpires and get ejected. Why? The outcome of the play wasn't going to change. Sometimes it was to get the team fired up, but all the time it was to show everyone that he had his players backs.
 

The Zapper

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In this vein, I think I would be totally fine with a guy like Backes running Konecny (clean, but nasty) and then telling the Flyers and their bench that's what happens when Gudas cheapshots a smaller skill guy on the B's.

That tactic is far more likely to work than targeting a lug like Gudas.

Good point.
 

Oates2Neely

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How are you so sure?

There are times when players watch the jumbotron, and there are times when they're otherwise occupied. I can't state with certainty that they all saw it, or that it was played more than once, if at all.

But if a delayed reaction is OK, what difference does it make whether someone fights Gudas in the third period, or the next time they play the Flyers? I recall many here apoplectic about Thornton fighting Cooke in a later game, that it was too little, too late. Looks to me that unless a teammate springs into instant action, they'll be blasted. Perhaps if we put ourselves into the players' shoes and try to understand what's going on from their POV we might be a bit less quick to judge.

At any rate, Czarnick is OK and Gudas took a significant hit in the wallet, which should hurt him much more than a punch to the helmet.

I'm not suggesting had someone reacted to the hit on Czarnik the the result would be the Bruins going 82-0 en route to a Stanley Cup. But what type of team would you want to be on? One with teammates who have each others backs, or one like the 2011 Canucks who watch their captain get jabbed & bushwhacked & do nothing other than look to refs for a PP. The Canucks & Canadiens were built that way. And they play loser hockey. They don't win. Habs have gone out and drafted Gallagher, signed Prust, Moen, Parros, etc.. as a direct counter to the Bruins style of physical play. You think Shea Weber is going to watch Bruins forwards cheap shot Habs players this season? No chance.

With all due respect I take it youve been to a live game? When there is a questionable hit on a home player everybody in the building has their eyes glued to the massive Jumbotron at center ice. And if you're a player on the bench, the crowd reaction to the replay will get your attention. It's not avoidable.
 

Artemis

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So the overall lesson of this thread is: Don't stand up for teammates because the game has changed and it will have zero effect.

Nobody has said don't stand up for teammates.

This isn't a one-size-fits-all situation. Player suffers dirty hit, teammate retaliates, honor served, team bonds. Black-and-white happens sometimes, but in a real, messy world, things are often gray.

Take the Cooke-on-Savard hit, which no Bruin other than Ryder (who wouldn't fight if his own life depended on it) saw. But they were still blasted to kingdom come for not responding. There was another time when Ference came to Recchi's aid when Recchi suffered a head shot, pounding the snot out of his attacker (I forget who it was). Only problem was, Recchi wasn't hit in the head. It was a clean hit. Whoops. (And Ference, after seeing the replay post game, apologized.)

Sometimes nobody sees the hit. Sometimes a player is so badly injured that getting him help is the top priority, not fighting his attacker. Sometimes a dirty hit looks clean, or vice versa. Sometimes the officials step in. Sometimes the offender won't engage. Sometimes retaliation is delayed. And sometimes, winning the game is paramount.

As I said, I can't judge. I'm not on the ice or in the locker room. Pro hockey games are exhausting, emotional, difficult affairs, and it's easy to be a warrior and to say what others should do from the comfort of the couch.
 

LouJersey

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It is black and white in the preseason. Gudas gets the penalty and Czarnik gets the concussion. There is nothing you need to see on a Jumbotron. You take care of it then.

Regular season / playoffs are when the gray area comes into play (which I don't even agree with)

Someone will hopefully get him next game.
 

Dr Quincy

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Everything in life has a potential downside.

Why step in front of a slapshot, it could break your hand and put you out 6 weeks.

Why practice the day before the season starts, you could hurt your ankle and possibly miss the season.

Why have pre-season tournaments, you could get a concussion, or have any number of things happen.

Why play Patrice bergeron in the pre-season, he could get hurt and miss the opener.

Does any scenario exist where a teammate could stick up for a teammate?

You specifically asked "What's the downside?"

I answered your question.

And to answer your question: Sure, a teammate can stick up for a teammate in any situation. I'm just not sure it has much effect either way.
 

GloryDaze4877

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Ok, can we put this thread to rest after Chara came to the aid of Krug the other night when Martin put a hard (but clean) check on him?

The only thing I am taking away from this is that the B's players must like Krug a lot better than Czarnik :sarcasm::laugh:
 

Therick67

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Ok, can we put this thread to rest after Chara came to the aid of Krug the other night when Martin put a hard (but clean) check on him?

The only thing I am taking away from this is that the B's players must like Krug a lot better than Czarnik :sarcasm::laugh:

Doesn't Chara know he could have broken his hand? Seems like Z didn't like Martin taking a run at a teammate late in a one sided game.
 

BMC

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Doesn't Chara know he could have broken his hand? Seems like Z didn't like Martin taking a run at a teammate late in a one sided game.

Well it was a bush league thing for Martin to do so yeah I'll go with Z not liking what Martin taking a run at Krug. And I'm damned glad he did and I hope he keeps it up. I think it gives players confidence when they see their captain standing up for them, especially the rookies.
 

Therick67

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Well it was a bush league thing for Martin to do so yeah I'll go with Z not liking what Martin taking a run at Krug. And I'm damned glad he did and I hope he keeps it up. I think it gives players confidence when they see their captain standing up for them, especially the rookies.

I'm in full agreement.
 

LouJersey

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Ok, can we put this thread to rest after Chara came to the aid of Krug the other night when Martin put a hard (but clean) check on him?

The only thing I am taking away from this is that the B's players must like Krug a lot better than Czarnik :sarcasm::laugh:

Thank God Chara came in on the line change and did something. Was funny watching Hayes half heartedly try to get Martin to engage.

Captain did good there, was great to see.
 

Sheppy

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Well it was a bush league thing for Martin to do so yeah I'll go with Z not liking what Martin taking a run at Krug. And I'm damned glad he did and I hope he keeps it up. I think it gives players confidence when they see their captain standing up for them, especially the rookies.

No. Standing up for your teammates has zero effect on them... Haven't you read this thread?
 

GloryDaze4877

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No. Standing up for your teammates has zero effect on them... Haven't you read this thread?

In fairness to myself and Dr Q, that was not the point that we were making. What we were saying was there is no proven correlation between teammates "having each other's backs" and better performance as a team.
 
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