bert
Registered User
Well Doughty has shown the elite ability for over 4 years now. I don't think anyone is wrong in saying he is the best D man in the league he keeps proving it over and over again.
why are posters on the main boards so down on us
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Well Doughty has shown the elite ability for over 4 years now. I don't think anyone is wrong in saying he is the best D man in the league he keeps proving it over and over again.
Super Cake
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What confuses me about the main boards is that they feel confident that Ryan will not resign with us. Well let me ask them this, why would Moulson sign with the sabres? Why would anyone sign with the oilers? Why would MacArthur sign a 5 year contract with us? There is absolutely nothing set in stone that says that Ryan will just walk. He may or may not walk. The main boards however acts as though Ryan is basically already gone.
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Micklebot
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Doughty is a great player, and certainly deserves to be in the conversation for top D, but you're attributing a bit too much of the team success to him.
Team Canada is a top team with or without Doughty, and has always been among the favourites to medal (yes I am aware of 2006, however they were still considered a very strong team regarless of placement).
LA's turnaround was fueled by far more than Doughty's arrival. Kopitar becoming a premier 2-way center along with D Brown developing into a very good leader, Justin Williams joining the team, and probably the biggest gain, not having to rely on Labarbera, Garon or Chechmanek as their starter. Sutter becoming the coach and picking up Carter and Richard propelled them into being an elite team.
Doughty hasn't really had to be the guy on a terrible team, he's alway had the luxery of being surrounded with a strong group of players. That doesn't take away from what he's accomplished, but be careful not to ascribe all of what the team accomplished to him.
/end rant
Micklebot
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By being outplayed by Weber year after year? Doughty certainly has his highs at the best time (playoffs and tournaments) but looking at the larger sample, I don't see a big enough gap between Weber and doughty in those small samples to outweigh the gap in the much larger sample of the rest of the time.
We are one of the worst teams on paper.
Goalies: about 20th
Defencemen around 20-25th
Forwards: around 20th
Coaching: around 25th
Prospects around 20th
Not great.
Goalies: about 20th
Defencemen around 20-25th
Forwards: around 20th
Coaching: around 25th
Prospects around 20th
Not great.
bert
Registered User
Doughty has raised his game higher than Weber has at the last two Olympics.
Weber was on one elite Nashville team and was unable to bring them to the next level. Infact he was very lucky he wasn't a complete non factor with the head check he delivered to Zetterberg.
Weber maybe the better regular season D man but not by nearly as much as you are suggesting. When its mattered most Doughty has been the best.
Doughty's skill set is more dynamic because of his puck carrying and skating ability. He is the better overall package.
Do Make Say Think
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If I have to pick between Karlsson and Doughty as my top D to make a team (not fantasy) I take Karlsson: there is no one in the same stratosphere as him in terms of driving play, no one
Doughty is awesome but he's getting massively overrated on HF because he plays on awesome teams
Doughty is awesome but he's getting massively overrated on HF because he plays on awesome teams
Where did this all come from?
Didn't Mac win coach of the year a season or two ago?
Or is this HF style, solely look at last season and base everything off of that?
Do Make Say Think
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Well coaching was a disaster last year that much is true
How much of it is the coaching staff's fault and how much of it is on the players is harder to gauge
Considering Maclean's track record prior to last year I'm inclined to side with him when he said, at some point last year, "is the problem that we don't have the right players?"
Obviously the coaching staff should shoulder plenty of blame for playing the GSN line so god damn much but there's a lot that goes into the decision of who gets to play, a lot of it we are not privy to
How much of it is the coaching staff's fault and how much of it is on the players is harder to gauge
Considering Maclean's track record prior to last year I'm inclined to side with him when he said, at some point last year, "is the problem that we don't have the right players?"
Obviously the coaching staff should shoulder plenty of blame for playing the GSN line so god damn much but there's a lot that goes into the decision of who gets to play, a lot of it we are not privy to
Super Cake
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That is exactly it. People who really think we are the worst team on paper is delusional.
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Super Cake
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Doughty is an amazing playoff performer. Other than that though, i do agree that he is somewhat overrated.
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ChocolateLeclaire
Registered User
(Mod)
Two seasons ago, it was arguable that we had one of the best goaltending pairs in hockey, had one of the best prospect pools and the best coach. But hey, let's take your assessment as gospel.
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bert
Registered User
I don't care what HF says about the player I think he is the best because every time he is on a big stage he is the best.
I love Karlsson as much as anyone, he doesn't have the all around game and hasn't raised his level of play in the playoffs like Doughty. He is better offensively day in day out no doubt about it but that's where it ends. Doughty's competitive edge and physicality is what makes him better. After Karlsson he is the second best at driving an offense and moving the puck up the ice.
Karlsson is my second choice every time and it isn't close. Even with the way he played last season, which I found disgusting at times in his effort levels. However I think that was a team problem more than an individual considering how often it happened with so many players.
bert
Registered User
He is when it counts 50 points in 76 playoff games. Yes he has already played 76 playoff games and he is 24.
While that is impressive if I'm looking for offense there are more than a few guys I'd choose before Doughty, playoffs or not.
Do Make Say Think
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Sensinitis
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OK guys but could you guys just think for a second what Karlsson do if he played for the Kings instead of Doughty?
I can't even imagine what he'd be able to do playing for such a good defensive team and being relied upon as the key offensive weapon along with Kopitar/Gaborik/Carter.
I can't even imagine what he'd be able to do playing for such a good defensive team and being relied upon as the key offensive weapon along with Kopitar/Gaborik/Carter.
bert
Registered User
He's the best player on the team. Think that has anything to do with the team success?
Who? Only guys you can really compare are Keith and Subban. I don't think its wrong to say either one of those players either both are elite, I have just seen Doughty do it more when it counts (Keith has also been very good).
Doughty has gone end to end in back to back Stanley cup finals and scored very important goals. If he played for a more offensive team he would have scored even more.
Its a Darryl Sutter coached team, Karlsson gets free reign in Ottawa to do whatever he wants that wouldn't be the case in L.A.
Doughty picks his spots in a very tight system, the fact that he can manage to still be such an offensive catalyst on a team that plays with such discipline and structure speaks to his hockey sense and ability to read the play.
Do Make Say Think
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Of course it does but tha'ts not the point
The point is playoff success, getting there and going deep, is never an individual thing and one of the great things about the Kings and the Blackhawks is that the clearly get it: you win by committee
Bringing up stats like playoff games played and points does nothing in establishing how good the player is on an individual level
The point is playoff success, getting there and going deep, is never an individual thing and one of the great things about the Kings and the Blackhawks is that the clearly get it: you win by committee
Bringing up stats like playoff games played and points does nothing in establishing how good the player is on an individual level
bert
Registered User
Sure the games played isn't an individual stat but it has given him tremendous experience. Which in Doughty's case he is clearly a leader on that team, he leads them in ice time every game. Did you hear what he said about the San Jose series? He knew they were scared he let his teammates know and they went for the jugular.
Points are a pretty good indication whether or not a player is producing so I will disagree with you on that one.
StefanW
Registered User
Is anyone on the main boards arguing that the Sens suck because their fans can't agree on how good Doughty is? If not, the thread is taking a big detour at the moment.
FolignoQuantumLeap
Don't Hold The Door
I for one do think Ottawa won't do that well next season, but your rankings are way off and you can't even provide an explanation for them.
Forwards are certainly not in the bottom 3rd. They lack elite talent but make up for it in depth. Great group of centers, the right side probably shapes up to be Ryan, Stone, Chiasson and Neil which is among the best in the league. They're a 10-16 group for sure.
Goalies? Robin Lehner alone is better than half the league's goaltending situations. Anderson remains incredibly underrated. He'll be stealing games, as always. We have top 10 goaltending.
Prospects? Call it whatever you want, but the organization will still keep pumping out more players than whatever team you cheer for. Our staff in Binghamton get results and have been for years. We don't need top 5 picks to get good young players.
Coaching? Maclean made the playoffs twice out of the gate and got his team to overachieve while being nominated twice for the Jack Adams. Again, if you're gonna call it bottom 5 in the NHL, you better come with an explanation because reality doesn't support the claim.
At any given time, there are always several top defensemen in the league. Arguing about who is the best seems somewhat pointless to me. I like Doughty, Karlsson, Subban, Keith, Chara, and Letang and wish they all played for my favourite teams. Each brings a unique set of skills that make it fun to watch. I am very thankful we have Karlsson as he is one of the most entertaining ones. Keith and Subban are very entertaining too.
There are many potential reasons that fans of other teams cause them to rate the Senators very low for next year. One is that they cheer for other teams. Another is that the Senators lost a ppg name player in a trade this summer. There are other reasons too. Frankly, my dear, i don't give a damn what they think. But i do enjoy reading some of their postings.
There are many potential reasons that fans of other teams cause them to rate the Senators very low for next year. One is that they cheer for other teams. Another is that the Senators lost a ppg name player in a trade this summer. There are other reasons too. Frankly, my dear, i don't give a damn what they think. But i do enjoy reading some of their postings.
Micklebot
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Argument could be made for Subban, Keith, Yandle, Letang, Byfuglien, Pietrangelo, though most aren't as well rounded. I'm probably missing some players too.
Anyways, this is getting off topic.
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