Why a Zach Hyman - Toronto extension, isn't a closed door, and may still even be likely.

[stickty111]

you never know with Dubas tho he likes to try to set new precedent and then no one follows it. Might be looking at another one of those, like 7.11m x 8 years.

Lets try to make some reasonable posts. Shall we?

 

[Leafsfan74]

The team needs to see personnel changes. You can't keep losing so many season in a row and expect a magic shift in short fashion. If you take such an approach of praying they figure it out you will end up like the Oilers of a decade ago, or the Sharks.

Thus, I expect Reilly to be traded and more than likely Hyman to move on. Throw in the movement of Andersens contract and the Leafs will have some wiggle room under the cap to find balance.

Hyman at $4M or slightly more is where the Leafs need to hold the line, if they even decide to follow this path. This was always going to be the situation with so much tied up top and a decision to keep the faith in the core.

The team hasn't grown, it's that simple. If Hyman can get $5M plus elsewhere, so be it. I like what he brings, but, we need hard nosed Gamers when it counts in the playoffs. This team, to a man, has failed in this regard.

In the numbers cap game, Hyman may have priced himself off of the team. Or more succinctly, the cap issue due to some being overpaid has tied their hands.

It's a real shame, but also the reality.

 

[Budz]

The team needs to see personnel changes. You can't keep losing so many season in a row and expect a magic shift in short fashion. If you take such an approach of praying they figure it out you will end up like the Oilers of a decade ago, or the Sharks.

Thus, I expect Reilly to be traded and more than likely Hyman to move on. Throw in the movement of Andersens contract and the Leafs will have some wiggle room under the cap to find balance.

Hyman at $4M or slightly more is where the Leafs need to hold the line, if they even decide to follow this path. This was always going to be the situation with so much tied up top and a decision to keep the faith in the core.

The team hasn't grown, it's that simple. If Hyman can get $5M plus elsewhere, so be it. I like what he brings, but, we need hard nosed Gamers when it counts in the playoffs. This team, to a man, has failed in this regard.

In the numbers cap game, Hyman may have priced himself off of the team. Or more succinctly, the cap issue due to some being overpaid has tied their hands.

It's a real shame, but also the reality.

I agree with much of what you say - with slightly different add on. Many Hyman fans loved him in the top two 2 lines. I felt like he played there out of need, not skill. Loved him during his short stint on 3rd line thought he helped drive an effective line.

He is the prototypical 3Rd line winger I want - but needs to be at 3rd line money.
Great player, but miscast in Toronto throwing value and true position out the window.

 

[saffronleaf]

Dubas would have given nudge 7m if he were a Leafs.

7.93*

 

[Stonehands1990]

Lets try to make some reasonable posts. Shall we?

What’s inaccurate about his post?

 

[seanlinden]

I agree with much of what you say - with slightly different add on. Many Hyman fans loved him in the top two 2 lines. I felt like he played there out of need, not skill. Loved him during his short stint on 3rd line thought he helped drive an effective line.

He is the prototypical 3Rd line winger I want - but needs to be at 3rd line money.
Great player, but miscast in Toronto throwing value and true position out the window.

This. This. and more this.

Yes, he was capable of playing in the top 6 throughout the last 3 years, but during all of that time, he had at least one of (and quite often 2 of) Marner, Tavares & Matthews out on the ice with him. $11m players need to be able to take $2m 3rd liners and make them play like $5m top 6 wingers. That's why you pay them $11m rather than $8m, and go and get a $5m guy on the wing.

Yes, the Leafs LW depth is extremely poor, and he brings something (grit) that in general, this team lacks. But if you take the roughly $4-5m in cap space that he wants; you can go out and get 2 guys who make $2.5 to $3m that are going to bring much of what Hyman did, and probably be younger as well. Heck, you could probably bring Foligno back for $2 and change.

The way to get value out of guys like Hyman is to give them some security in their early-mid 20s; tie up a couple of UFA years, but still leave a "carrot" dangling in the form of a 3rd/UFA contract to bank their future on. Once UFA rolls around and they're approaching 30, time to cut loose.

Targets (IMO) should be guys like Lawson Crouse, Jordan Greenway, Alex Tuch, etc.

 

[The90]

I like Hyman. I really do. But its not the end of the world if we lose him. He's another guy who I thought would be physical in the playoffs but just didn't make that impact for us.

I absolutely would not overpay to keep hyman. You can find players to replace what he does at half the price.

He was playoff intense in the regular season and stood out for it, but when the playoffs hit and he plays with the same intensity as everyone else he’s not as noticeable. That’s what I’ve found the last few years.

 

[Leaf Fans]

What’s inaccurate about his post?

The huge number suggested.

 

[Trapper]

Hyman and Brown with the skill of the 4 amigos is the identity the team needs in it’s core.
It’s what a couple of core players are missing.
It’s a shame salary forces them out in favor of the half cap brothers.

That’s the identity we have been lacking.
Not this pile.

 

[Anthrax442]

Bob McCown always said that you always end up overpaying the guys who are in the 4-6 mil zone. Hyman is 29 and any deal over 4.5 and 3 years is an overpayment.

 

[Smif]

This situation reminds me of the re-signing of Bryan McCabe, the fan favorite deserved a raise but had already peaked and you knew he was going to get worse, not better. Fans turned on him hard when he couldn't produce what we were used to and then we couldn't get rid of him because he was overpaid.

I don't want Zach to be a villain here in two years when he can't live up to his contract anymore.

 

[ToneDog]

Ziggy thinks he is worth $6m and thinking Oilers; more than what Nudge got. Suggested he could sign for 5 years for 28m. Hard, hard pass for me.

As many have said, he is not worth what Toffoli got (4.3). I am now in the 3.5m camp or so long. Make up the extra money in endorsements like your two greedy linemates.

 

[justashadowof]

This situation reminds me of the re-signing of Bryan McCabe, the fan favorite deserved a raise but had already peaked and you knew he was going to get worse, not better. Fans turned on him hard when he couldn't produce what we were used to and then we couldn't get rid of him because he was overpaid.

I don't want Zach to be a villain here in two years when he can't live up to his contract anymore.

See also Darcy Tucker and Joffrey Lupul.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Bob McCown always said that you always end up overpaying the guys who are in the 4-6 mil zone. Hyman is 29 and any deal over 4.5 and 3 years is an overpayment.

Dubas overpays everyone.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Zach doesnt need money.

He'll go for term.

 

[banks]

Hyman has to know that he's not going to find a better playing opportunity than he's had in Toronto. He plays with Matthews, Marner, Tavares, and Nylander almost all the time. There's been short stretches where he plays 3rd line, but even then it's not a bad gig.

What other team can offer him linemates like that? What other team can offer him a giant signing bonus, and a front loaded deal?

I just don't see why he'd try to test the market, unless he just wants the dollar figure to be as high as possible. A contract below 4.5 AAV should be doable.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Hyman has to know that he's not going to find a better playing opportunity than he's had in Toronto. He plays with Matthews, Marner, Tavares, and Nylander almost all the time. There's been short stretches where he plays 3rd line, but even then it's not a bad gig.

What other team can offer him linemates like that? What other team can offer him a giant signing bonus, and a front loaded deal?

I just don't see why he'd try to test the market, unless he just wants the dollar figure to be as high as possible. A contract below 4.5 AAV should be doable.

Maybe he'd like some playoff success?

 

[Suntouchable13]

Maybe he'd like some playoff success?

On a team that expects playoff success he is not playing on the top 2 lines, I am sorry.

 

[banks]

Maybe he'd like some playoff success?

Then maybe he should earn some playoff success. Because he hasn't been a part of the solution yet in the postseason.

And what team has the roster space and cap space for him that's a stronger contender? The only teams I think can afford him at 4.5 ish would be non-playoff teams.

 

[AvroArrow]

Nuge - $5.1/8
Toffoli - $4/4

Hyman shouldn't be making anything over $3.5 million.

Over the last 2 seasons he has 70 points in 94 games, pro-rated over a full 82 that's 61 points. Really similar numbers offensively, and also great defensively. RNH is a really close comparison. Good defensively and can chip in offensively. I like RNH's offensive ceiling better but overall they're pretty close for me. He's not just some grinder anymore, he took his game to the next level last season, and did it again this year.

Toffoli is just on a bad contract from a players perspective. Like Mackinnon or Pasta, should be making more. Signed their deals before their best seasons. Had he been a FA right now, he easily gets 6M. It's not just about player x makes this much, it's when you signed that deal.

Hyman is easily worth 4m, 4-5 is fair value IMO. He can PK, responsible defensively, can play C if needed and chips in on offence.

Biggest concern would be his knee. We didn't see him play long enough post-injury to determine where he's at physically.

 

[Mats13]

Only Leafs fans would want to get rid of Marner and sign Hyman for 8 years

If playoff production is a reason to dump Marner, why is it being ignored for Hyman?

He’s a player who’s style won’t age well and one knee is gone.

Signing him would be a horrific error and would make me give up on this management team all together.

There’s much better players being signed for much less given the flat cap. Hyman without Matthews and Marner wouldn’t be nearly as productive.

I like him as a player. But he has clear flaws. He holds the puck far too long, he has difficulty finishing (speaking of playoffs, Marner gave him 4-5 clean changes and couldn’t put anything in) and his puck handling is bad to say the least.

 

[jaybo21]

I honestly don't know where people see Hyman being worth that much and for up to 8 years. This is crazy talk. For me, I think Hyman has been a great player for us but with injuries and the style of play he plays, I would offer a "take it or leave it" contract of 3x3. Anything more then that, I would not feel confident in agreeing to. This is David Clarkson all over again and I dont want any part of that.

 

[Lightsol]

Only Leafs fans would want to get rid of Marner and sign Hyman for 8 years

If playoff production is a reason to dump Marner, why is it being ignored for Hyman?

He’s a player who’s style won’t age well and one knee is gone.

Signing him would be a horrific error and would make me give up on this management team all together.

There’s much better players being signed for much less given the flat cap. Hyman without Matthews and Marner wouldn’t be nearly as productive.

I like him as a player. But he has clear flaws. He holds the puck far too long, he has difficulty finishing (speaking of playoffs, Marner gave him 4-5 clean changes and couldn’t put anything in) and his puck handling is bad to say the least.

Leaf fans always overvalue lunchbox pluggers...

Personally, I think a large chunk of Leaf fans are 100% convinced the team needs to give up everything to locate the next Wendel Clark...

 

[Cleetus]

Lets try to make some reasonable posts. Shall we?

so the posts that you are claiming that Dubas relied on the media and fans to assemble the team so he can't take blame for another failed season are reasonable?

 

[Racer88]

Maybe he'd like some playoff success?

Or maybe like the rest of them he likes golf.