Who would you rather? Danault vs Domi

[japhi]

This argument is so tired. Danault is not a drag on that line, but nor is he a driver or threat. And most importantly, he cannot score goals. That puts the line at a massive disadvantage. A number 1C and 2C must be able to score goals (20 or 25 is fine) or the line is not a threat. How my times do I have to write this?

If you are finding you have to keep writing it maybe you are wrong?

ROR scored 12 goals last year and has 195 for the career, over 800 games.
Almost a third of his goals are on the PP. He is not a legitimate goal scoring threat 5v5.

Clearly a 3c.

Or, his 5v5 production is a product of his utilization. He doesn’t produce lots of goals starting in his own zone playing against the other teams top lines.

Same goes for Danault.

 

[Habs Icing]

He'll get 60+ playing 2C for 2 years while KK matures at 3C. Incredible how everyone is assuming KK is ready for a 2C role. He is not.

Mark me, Habs will trade Domi and be pure ass at offence again next year while PD plays 2C all year. I am willing to bet on this. Anybody up for it?

I'd like to take your money but unfortunately, I agree with you.

 

[bsl]

This is a tough one because I'd rather domi. But if I'm building a successful team, I take Danault.

This is an intersting notion and deserves more thought. All contenders need a good shut down 3C this is true. But that C should be able to pot the occasional important clutch goal too. Especially in the PO. Will not be popular but I see KK in this role moving forward. As PD can't score goals. And I think Domi could be on a contender as a pure offensive no 2 D man on an exploitation line. He had 70 point 2 years ago. He has it in him. PD does not.

 

[bsl]

Nah...Habs fans embrace winning.

Choosing Danault over Domi is just an example of why fans in true hockey markets understand the game on a higher level than other non traditional markets.

We see through the glitter...

I am not impressed at all by the majority of fans here choosing Danault over Domi. In fact I am pretty surprised and disappointed.

 

[bsl]

I believe the last 12 games are an indication of how they intend to roll the lines. kk and Suziki as 1/2. No conspiracy here. Having cost protected guys allows us to pay Danault.

It would crazy to trade a shut down top 9 C right now that has a history of centering one of the best even strength lines in the league. We would have to literally start the search for his replacement the day after we moved him, it would become our number one need and be insanely difficult to fill.

But you want to move him so let me know who is going to come in and replace him for significantly less money? Where is this young shut down centre that is going to play for cheap and cost zero assets?

So with plenty of D skilled wings, a responsible Suzuki who also defends by playing good offence, a growing and responsible KK, who will be better than PD in 2 years at both ends, Carey Price, Shea Weber, an improving and big D corps, we really really need a C man that concentrates purely on D and scores 13 goals. I don't agree, and I think keeping Danault is defensive overkill with no need.

 

[bsl]

If you want to build a successful franchise long term, both can go. Deal with the growing pains of Suzuki KK as 1-2 and it's easier to find a high end 3C to replace Danault. Both Danault and Domi can bring in a haul to address the major needs of the team, being young wingers.

Food for thought. I just think Domi is not done yet.

 

[bsl]

If the Habs can land the winger they're after and Danault is the hang-up to the trade, they're not going to ditch the deal just because the other team insists on Danault over Domi.

Not taking anything away from Danault, however, he shouldn't be in the way if we can land that prized winger scoring talent who can play on the first line if that ever became the difference between making a deal and not making one.

A Danault trade for a skilled wing makes too much sense. It would make perfect sense for both teams. Habs with no offence and surplus of defensive forwards, and Carey price at 10 .5 mill, and the other team perhaps having a surplus of offence with a need for some better defensive players.

Your faith is admirable and likely not justified. I fully expect Habs to do just that. Refuse to trade Danault for a skilled winger. They'll trade Domi in a useless like for like trade.

 

[bsl]

If the GM is true to his word and that Timmins is also part of the decision it will not happen. Depth at center is of most importance to this team and will be key in Mtl getting back in the mix with the best teams. Plus you do not trade the only guy on your team that can take draws and actually win them ...

'Depth at centre'. What do you mean by this?

 

[bsl]

Imagine keeping a guy that is gonna ask close to 6.5m to win faceoffs. Lmao you can learn winning faceoffs. If that's the only reason you wanna keep Danault , then something is wrong

LOL agreed. Also Evans was looking pretty good there, and Suzuki and KK will improve. Lame argument.

 

[bsl]

Danault is a no brainer.
First of all, This Canadien team is sooo smalll, smallest of the league, Domi is so small and Danault isn't small.
Secondly : Danault is excellent in FO
Third : Danault have chemistry with Gally and Tatar. He did have some chemistry with Paccio and Radu few years back. In a late 3rd period on a winning game you let Danault shut down the other line, with Domi, it's too risky.
There is so many reasons why Danault is a keeper.
And Domi takes more stupid penalties.

1. So Habs can't get big D and wings to help counter Domi's size. And sorry Danault is not exactly huge and intimidating either. Bad argument.
2. Other C men will improve at FO and you don't pay a guy 6 mill for FO and 13 goals, you pay a guy 6 mill for offence. Bad argument.
3. No other C man can ever have 'chemistry' with Gallagher and Tatar, ever. One of who might be gone in the next year or two anyway. Bad argument.
4. If there are so many reasons why Danualt is a keeper. What are they if not the three above?

Geez, Danault is not getting a lot of help here.

 

[ZUKI]

Danault wants top center money , does not matter how he said it. He wants to be paid as top center. its nothing under 6m. He needs to realize he's not a good offensive player.
We all know what's gonna happen if Danault stays at big terms. Danault will eat still 18min a night while KK will end up playing with line 3-4 forwards and have 11 of ice time. Always been l ike that in the last 20 years

just to ask , you really think that a center as good as Danault defensively , but more good offensively would sign for 6m$ ? If Danault was a 60-75 points player, he would get 9-10m$ per season

 

[bsl]

If you are finding you have to keep writing it maybe you are wrong?

ROR scored 12 goals last year and has 195 for the career, over 800 games.
Almost a third of his goals are on the PP. He is not a legitimate goal scoring threat 5v5.

Clearly a 3c.

Or, his 5v5 production is a product of his utilization. He doesn’t produce lots of goals starting in his own zone playing against the other teams top lines.

Same goes for Danault.

Comparing ROR to Danault. OK.

 

[bsl]

just to ask , you really think that a center as good as Danault defensively , but more good offensively would sign for 6m$ ? If Danault was a 60-75 points player, he would get 9-10m$ per season

Yeah but he's not a 60-75 point player, so who cares? If you want to pay 6 mill for 13 goals from a c man on the top line, who will likely get maybe 8 on the third line, knock yourself out.

 

[bsl]

The accurate answer is Danault. As much as I'm not a fan of his comments at the end of the season and as much as I think it would be stupid to pay him north of 5.5M on the long term, the focus should be on grooming Suzuki and Kotkaniemi to be the driving forces of our first two lines. And to do so, you want to have a veteran who can handle some tougher matchups.

Ideally next season Kotkaniemi gets mainly exploitation matchups, while Danault and Suzuki split up the tougher assignments.

Play Suzuki with Drouin and Gallagher. Kotkaniemi should play with Armia and an offensive winger we acquire this summer. Danault, Tatar and Lehkonen can play some tougher minutes here and there.

One guy I'd try and get is Granlund. Finns have great chemestry together, Granlund would be cheaper after a tough season. He's still young. And even if he's small he would have tons of room to manoeuvre with Armia and Kotkaniemi.

As for Domi, I think I would actually do a one on one for Nikita Zadorov if Colorado is interested. Chiarot, Weber, Zadorov, Petry and Romanov on the same D is probably the most intimidating D in the league. And every single one of these guys are decent skaters for their size.

I don't agree with Danault being kept and not Domi, but yes if they get a good young top 4 D man for Domi in a deal I would be OK with that.

My fear is that Bergy does a stupid like for like winger trade for Domi, with some mediocre to OK winger coming back, for Domi, a guy who can also play C and even had 70 point one year doing it, at a young age. I'll tear my f***ing hair out if Bergy does this.

 

[bsl]

We can have a difference of opinion about a player we like over another player but, this thread was founded on gross over-exaggeration, stacking everything against one player in the proposed question.

It's like asking, "You have a choice between two players. One, Domi, is a flawed but oh so loveable human being and, the other, Danault, is the anti-christ. Who would you choose?"

It's ridiculous set-ups like these that raises the level of hyperbole and takes away any serious discussion.

And you can't think your way through the bias? Or think that nobody else can either? Yes the OP post is biased, who cares? Complaining about a poll is not a valid argument in support of Danault the hockey player.

 

[bsl]

I’d like to keep both if they are willing to accept these roles:

- Danault, if he can be content being this teams Carbo or Jarvis.
- Domi if he can accept a top two line winger role, and playing center in a pinch.

PD is nowhere near Carbo or even Jarvis.
Domi does not want to play wing, and is better at centre.

 

[bsl]

There's always the entirely ridiculous argument that usually pops up regarding Danault:

Come on, if he had useless wingers that were defensive sieves, he wouldn't be any good at even strength.

Why not use that argument the same way some posters use the argument that Danault wouldn't produce 50+ points if he wasn't playing with good offensive players, omitting to underline the limited PP time and the D-zone starts VS O-zone stars, as well as the shutdown role against the opponents' best players?

These posters are also some that downplay Tatar and Gallagher because they aren't elite talents but, when they are playing with Tatar, they are God sends that carry a miserable player like Danault.

Other posters that say the team just needs to find other good wingers to keep Danault playing an equally effective role as a 3rd line C are dead on. Doing so would place Danrult's line in a secondary scoring role on top of their shutdown role as a two-way line, all while providing Suzuki and Kotkaniemi with talented wingers for them to excel in a more offensive role than the 3rd line.

I agree that Danault with good offensive wings on line 3 is a good idea. However good luck finding 6 good offensive wingers. Almost no team has that, and their 4 good offensive wingers are on the top 2 lines. I'd rather KK learn on the third, rather than have Danault there getting 25 points.

 

[bsl]

Both if they stop whining about the role the coach wants them to play.

Can we add a vote to keep both? Curious to see how many would vote for that. Sometimes, we are to hyper to make trades. This might be the case in this situations.

Danault is the type we need... especially with the 20 and 21 year old centers next year. However, Domi has skill/skating so if you trade him, we better get a solid return

That's not bad, except Domi likes playing C and is better there.

 

[bsl]

Why do we need 3 5-ish million $ LW? Trade Domi, Drouin or Tatar for a RW.

Because Domi is young, can also play C and is pretty good at it offensively? Will you find a wing for him better than him and just as versatile? Doubt it. This is why I fear Bergy doing just that.

No probs with Drouin though, package him with others in a deal for a D Man. Tatar not so sure, though my grandmother could have buried some of the chances he missed in the PO. Granted, my grandmother is a hell of a sniper.

 

[bsl]

It's not that complicated... All our pending UFA's can be asked what they want here soon before the next season starts. Habs fans won't get that info but our GM will. Then you go from there depending on what their demands are.

$6.5M is my high point with Danault, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar. Preferably, I'd like to sign all of them for $6M. If they are all on board with the Habs for the now and the future, I'd work out deals with some of them so we sign after the expansion draft.

6.5 M is insane for Danault. Especially with term. if KK and Suzuki work out in 2 years, you are f***ed with that contract.

 

[bsl]

It's not that complicated... All our pending UFA's can be asked what they want here soon before the next season starts. Habs fans won't get that info but our GM will. Then you go from there depending on what their demands are.

$6.5M is my high point with Danault, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar. Preferably, I'd like to sign all of them for $6M. If they are all on board with the Habs for the now and the future, I'd work out deals with some of them so we sign after the expansion draft.

You have a thing about keeping players well past their sell dates. Like teams never change.

 

[bsl]

I agree. I think it is ridiculous (obviously not in the way you meant it). Danault has been used as #1 center. What is the salary of a #1 center - even one at the bottom of the list? That is what Danault will be looking for. So my guess of 6.5 is lowballing it.

Correlation and Causation. Look it up.

 

[bsl]

both are complimentary players, both are not required, and both are easy to replace,

neither one of them would be a top 6 player on a contending team,

so really, who cares??

we are not talking about a kucherov, kuznetsov, eichel, or pasternak here,

once players like this are gone, you don't end up missing them much, if at all

Danault could be replaced tomorrow. Maybe eve upgraded. Domi will not be easy to replace. I can't believe you think this. The guy had 70 points at centre 2 years ago at a pretty young age. Playing with Shaw FFS. I'm just gobsmacked at what I am reading in this thread. This is why I keep on posting. I have not posted this much in years. It's one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen here.

 

[bsl]

Danault easy to replace? You see the interest in him on the main boards? Lots of team looking for a center like that so I disagree Danault is easy to replace.

Domi has a high potential and base of 55 pts. He's the wild card

You got it the wrong way round. Exactly the wrong way round.

 

[Runner77]

Warning: @bsl has been doing a rapid-fire post reply of all 13 pages in this thread. He's calling all of you out, some of you for good reason.