Neutrinos
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I'd argue a pitcher and a goalie are just as important...
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Who is more dominant in their sport: Ohtani, McDavid or Mahomes?
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A starting pitcher only plays roughly one of out every 5 games.
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
PItchers don't pitch enough to have that kind of impact.
I rarely see elite QB's just randomly suck for a month or two like goalies do.
Neutrinos
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A pitcher plays just as much as a QB... half the game
And whether or not you see a QB randomly suck for a month doesn't make them more important than a goalie
Pitchers rarely play half the game anymore. They play about a third. And only play every 4/5 games.
Video Nasty
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On average, only six or so pitchers across the majors pitch at least 200 innings. The peak is not much higher than that and it’s generally only going down. Another handful or so pitch make 33 starts. There’s 162 games in a season. That’s 1,458 innings per season (not including the odd extra innings here and there).
A so-called workhorse these days pitches up to 15% of all innings for a season and makes an appearance in 20% of the total games.
A QB plays all 17 games. On average, teams average 10-12 possession per game. Teams average 60-70 plays per game. The QB is on the field for all of these and commands all of them.
There’s no comparison whatsoever.
WalterLundy
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McDavid statistically, Mahomes for winning and Ohtani when he is pitching and hitting is the most valuable player in baseball any given year. I’d go McDavid but all good choices.
I am not exposed
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Bump after last nights record from Ohtani.
McPoyle
Start breaking bricks wet nips
Nice time to bump this. Still Ohtani, but more firmly now. He just had possibly the best single baseball game in history yesterday to create the 50-50 club for baseball. Its hard to even think of a comparable circumstance in NHL history. One that was mentioned in r/hockey was Gretzky scoring 5 goals in one night to get to 50 in 39 games.
Ohtani easily, then McDavid and both of them are way above Mahomes
He had 50-50 season but still isn’t even a top 2 most valuable player in the MLB this year.
Video Nasty
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Yet he’ll be picking up his third MVP award in four seasons.
A product of a sport with two MVP awards that no longer makes sense considering interleague play. Still not close to Judge or Witt this year
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Ohtani should be a pure runaway leader in this thread, he’s just that much better
Video Nasty
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Witt has been nearly as good offensively while being a plus defensive player at a prime defensive position. The offensive advantage of that level of hitter at SS rather than DH is huge and a 9.1 to 7.8 WAR is a pretty big difference.
And that’s not to hate on Ohtani, I just think he gets overrated because of his uniqueness of power/speed/pitching. He might have had one if stayed healthy last year but so far he’s never had a year as strong as McDavid in ‘21 or ‘23 relative to the MLB.
Moist ReadOnly
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How many teams have won it all without stellar years by #1 QBs? Then how many for a teams #1 pitcher or #1 goalie?
Its extremely lopsided for QBs
Took a pill in Sbisa
2showToffoliIwascool
Agreed. For McDavid to be on his level he'd need to be a 100-point player and a 20-win goalie with a >.915 sv%
Video Nasty
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Interesting. Seems a fair enough explanation.
As for interleague play, I never really thought about it like that. I don’t mind MLB continuing separate awards, considering it’s still what, 115-120 games being played inside their own league?
I would definitely be interested to see where voters would slot Ohtani this year if he was still in the AL, with the same season (aka still on the hapless Angels). Even though what you say makes a good case for Witt, it’s hard to imagine it wouldn’t be the alternate Judge-Ohtani vote for a fourth straight season.
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Probably a perennial Art Ross and Norris candidate would be a fairer comparison
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I think that's a fantastic comparison. It was truly a "I can't believe what I'm watching" type of performance, literally generational feat. There was a good article comparing games, which have been close--but not all-encompassing and absolutely none with a similar circumstance (51-51).
But--to the thread title--it's hard to consider Ohtani more dominant in his sport when he isn't currently playing his multiple positions. DH is basically like if McDavid only played PP. His offense is stellar but not enough to overcome McDavid relative to NHL or Mahomes relative to NFL unless you start adding some value thru pitching or fielding. Then they literally have no way to compare unless Mahomes starts playing safety as well or something.
Edit: and what's crazy is he was one third base away from the cycle too, would have been little argument about it being the most dominant game in history. Now it's just 'probably.'
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