Who does LA pick #2

[Sol]

To be fair, he's nearly a hockey year younger than a 'normal' high pick as well. He will be 17 until the usual training camp time.

Not that I truly disagree generally speaking.

Even though he's young for his draft, he's not undersized, he's a big kid. His age doesn't make him any less capable.

 

[cyclones22]

I am thinking Byfield is the pick as well until the local reporters start saying otherwise. It's interesting listening/reading opinions and insights from folks outside of Southern California. I respect the national correspondents for what they do, but you always go with the local insiders over national for the pulse on things like this. Look, I can tell you what the temperature is in Ottawa by getting on the internet. But I can't tell you with any detail how it feels to actually be outside there. Do you really think that a reporter in Canada has more insight into the Kings front office machinations than ones here? I highly doubt it. Or that I should take credence in some "report" that Stutzle was seen going on a bender the night of the draft lottery? If you think the Kings have made a draft promise (why would they?) to a player 4 months before the draft, I've got a bridge to sell you. But I think Hoven said that he heard reports that Blake was seen eating a liverwurst sandwich just moments after securing the 2nd overall draft position, so maybe Stutzle is the choice after all.

 

[ru4reals]

Thats very unrealistic and unnecessary

Nothing compares to NHL experience and Byfield and Stutzle arent small

The idea of players always benefitting more from being sent down for an entire season or more is overblown because its for 99% of the draft. Top-3 picks and sometimes bigger bodies/foreign pros in the top-10 making their teams late in the season or to start is normal and expected and good for them.

Ill reiterate / NOTHING is like the NHL experience. The training, nutrition, daily lifestyle, practice, games, coaching, etc etc..

Unless your player has confidence issues or specifically asks to go to a foreign pro league for a year - if they can make the team they should. My Devils’ Jack Hughes is tiny and his experience this year outweighs what hed have gotten in college by miles and miles. Nobody thought hed be any good (and he had a bad year admittedly) yet he was a top-5 player in zone exits and entries and had some highlight reel goals as someone who ‘cant score’.

Byfield and Stutzle can most certainly start from day 1 and I find both to be mature enough to do so

Look if either kids come in and blow the roof off and makes the big club great I'm down with that too. But we're not the freakin Devils. We don't need Byfield or Stutzle on the Kings next year anyways. Both needs to work on their strengths, mature physically and mentally and then after a year you can bring them up and go from there. Yeah Hughes is a great talent and he's going to be good, but I've watched a lot of Devils games this year because of his hype and kid definitely would have benefited from a year in College. Just look at his brother. They're 17 and 18 year olds if they make it great but if you need to send them down I'd rather do that then rush them.

 

[johnjm22]

We don't really know if bringing a player into the NHL right away helps or hurts their development.

Ultimately you're less likely to hurt a player by being conservative.

This would make for an ample development year for QB:
A full NHL camp
9 or less NHL games
Another CHL season hopefully with a playoff run
A more prominent role at the WJC

And you have nothing to lose by going this route.

I understand if he has 9 points in 9 NHL games that you probably want to keep him up, but if he looks like Hughes/Kaako/Dach/Kotkaniemi just send him back to junior.

 

[johnjm22]

See, I like these numbers. Team turnaround is one of the best numbers to have, a la David Robinson joining the Spurs.
What he provided was yet another projection of a 17 year old. I've been following baseball prospects since 1980 and hockey prospects since 1990, putting my money down on investing in rookie baseball and hockey cards...I'm really wary of projections of partial seasons of very young players playing in junior leagues...the number of failed prospects with amazing first half numbers and nothing else is endless. Only recently as a Braves fan we were drooling over our own prospect pool and 17 year old Kevin Maitan. When his rookie card came out, it was over $150...now that card is like $30. I just don't want to spend the #2OA on that big of a chance.

I didn't give you a projection on Byfield. I gave you actual stats. Numbers. Context.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Even though he's young for his draft, he's not undersized, he's a big kid. His age doesn't make him any less capable.

Oh absolutely. I wasn’t suggesting his size is an issue or his age makes him incapable—only that for development’s sake he’s younger than most. It’s a positive overall but he would be barely 18 in the nhl as opposed to 18 going on 19, which is why if he were to go back I wouldn’t see it as a setback or something. He would be 18 close to the start of his SECOND nhl training camp. But you definitely don’t hold him back simply just to hold him back, I don’t think that’s a decision one can make until they get him a requisite 9 NHL games and see if he can play big minutes.

 

[ru4reals]

We don't really know if bringing a player into the NHL right away helps or hurts their development.

Ultimately you're less likely to hurt a player by being conservative.

This would make for an ample development year for QB:
A full NHL camp
9 or less NHL games
Another CHL season hopefully with a playoff run
A more prominent role at the WJC

And you have nothing to lose by going this route.

I understand if he has 9 points in 9 NHL games that you probably want to keep him up, but if he looks like Hughes/Kaako/Dach/Kotkaniemi just send him back to junior.

Yup this is exactly my frame of thinking. Kopi spent an extra year in the SEL and I thought that was great for his develepment. He came in as a 19 year old and pretty much the rest is history. Draisaitl was drafted in 14, played 37 games and then was sent down to juniors. He didn't play full time until 2016. I think Edmonton finally realize maybe it wasn't the best thing to do rushing this kid.

 

[Pitaya]

Look if either kids come in and blow the roof off and makes the big club great I'm down with that too. But we're not the freakin Devils. We don't need Byfield or Stutzle on the Kings next year anyways. Both needs to work on their strengths, mature physically and mentally and then after a year you can bring them up and go from there. Yeah Hughes is a great talent and he's going to be good, but I've watched a lot of Devils games this year because of his hype and kid definitely would have benefited from a year in College. Just look at his brother. They're 17 and 18 year olds if they make it great but if you need to send them down I'd rather do that then rush them.

Rushing prospects is the most overrated stigma on this website

Theres literally zero proof you can ever bring up that can prove a prospect would have done better with time off unless they have confidence issues known by the media or physically get hurt because theyre too small

Name the positives of playing in an inferior league with inferior nutritionists, trainers, practices, coaching, etc. The only time its a negative is when the guy is playing 12mins a game and not 16-20 like he would in college - which wouldnt be the case for Byfield or Stutzle

 

[Peter Griffin]

Hypothetically would you guys be happy with trading #2 for #5, a late 1st and an early 2nd and then selecting either Raymond or Drysdale 5th overall?

 

[KINGS17]

Hypothetically would you guys be happy with trading #2 for #5, a late 1st and an early 2nd and then selecting either Raymond or Drysdale 5th overall?

No hypothetically about it, I would not be happy with that kind of deal.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Hypothetically would you guys be happy with trading #2 for #5, a late 1st and an early 2nd and then selecting either Raymond or Drysdale 5th overall?

Absolutely not.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hypothetically would you guys be happy with trading #2 for #5, a late 1st and an early 2nd and then selecting either Raymond or Drysdale 5th overall?

No.

 

[King'sPawn]

Rushing prospects is the most overrated stigma on this website

Theres literally zero proof you can ever bring up that can prove a prospect would have done better with time off unless they have confidence issues known by the media or physically get hurt because theyre too small

Name the positives of playing in an inferior league with inferior nutritionists, trainers, practices, coaching, etc. The only time its a negative is when the guy is playing 12mins a game and not 16-20 like he would in college - which wouldnt be the case for Byfield or Stutzle

Kings GM Dean Lombardi on Holloway, Moller’s European Vacation

Prospects get rushed and they suffer. You can pretend it's not an issue if you like.

If you think teams just send players down and have no input in what happens to the them, or at the very least don't have a diet plan or maintain communications with reassigned players, then there's no point in discussing the benefits of playing in a lower level of competition.

And Byfield/Stutzle would be fighting for minutes, so the point is moot.

 

[crassbonanza]

Kings GM Dean Lombardi on Holloway, Moller’s European Vacation

Prospects get rushed and they suffer. You can pretend it's not an issue if you like.

If you think teams just send players down and have no input in what happens to the them, or at the very least don't have a diet plan or maintain communications with reassigned players, then there's no point in discussing the benefits of playing in a lower level of competition.

And Byfield/Stutzle would be fighting for minutes, so the point is moot.

Your link doesn't really prove that prospects get rushed and they suffer. In fact, it seems that the whole article is about Dean insisting on over ripening prospects and them leaving because they feel like they aren't getting their chance. Further, Moller/Holloway were in no way comparable prospects to the 2nd overall pick. I believe this decade there have only been two 2nd overall picks to not make their team right away.

Also, I understand that a lot of Dean's philosophy was based on other sports, but baseball is not a great example. A lot of the reason that high end prospects are held back is due to the team control aspect. In baseball you have 5 years to call up a player from the time he was drafted, then you have 6/7 years of team control, with the first 3 at league minimum and the last 3 determined through arbitration. This means that teams oftentimes wait longer in order to maximize the years of his prime under team control.

Hockey doesn't work the same way, you get 2 slide years before the 3 year ELC starts counting at which point they become an RFA. I would argue that it is beneficial for the teams to get through the ELC years of high end prospects earlier, so they can sign a long term deals before they are finished developing. I like to look at Pastrnak as a great example. He joined the Bruins at 18 and did most of his developing with the big league team, by his 3rd season he had just begun to break out and the Bruins were able to sign him to a very team friendly deal. Now they have a guy scoring .7 GPG on a 6.6 AAV deal.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Hypothetically would you guys be happy with trading #2 for #5, a late 1st and an early 2nd and then selecting either Raymond or Drysdale 5th overall?

no.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Dobber Hockey loves Byfield.

https://twitter.com/hockey_robinson/status/1223086041701027840?s=21

 

[cyclones22]

Thanks for all your help.

For a little more detail, the Kings have 6 of the top 77 picks in the draft as it is. It doesn't make sense really to add a couple more draft choices to the mix and then settle for whoever is left at #5 (albeit and outstanding prospect, I'm sure) instead of having your choice of any player outside of Lafreniere at #2. The #2 pick dictates this draft. You're at other teams' mercy at #5.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Rushing prospects is the most overrated stigma on this website

Theres literally zero proof you can ever bring up that can prove a prospect would have done better with time off unless they have confidence issues known by the media or physically get hurt because theyre too small

Name the positives of playing in an inferior league with inferior nutritionists, trainers, practices, coaching, etc. The only time its a negative is when the guy is playing 12mins a game and not 16-20 like he would in college - which wouldnt be the case for Byfield or Stutzle

That's...really not much of an argument. You're asking us to prove a theoretical?

There's only a handful of prospects who make the NHL at 18, and some are forced just because they're high picks. That number increases a lot at 19, a lot more at 20, and the floodgates open at 21. Maybe you can't 'prove' they were better off developing elsewhere, but I'd posit if they were all that good at 18, you'd see a lot more playing at 18...but they can't beat some of the other chaff on NHL rosters so...

Your link doesn't really prove that prospects get rushed and they suffer. In fact, it seems that the whole article is about Dean insisting on over ripening prospects and them leaving because they feel like they aren't getting their chance. Further, Moller/Holloway were in no way comparable prospects to the 2nd overall pick. I believe this decade there have only been two 2nd overall picks to not make their team right away.

Also, I understand that a lot of Dean's philosophy was based on other sports, but baseball is not a great example. A lot of the reason that high end prospects are held back is due to the team control aspect. In baseball you have 5 years to call up a player from the time he was drafted, then you have 6/7 years of team control, with the first 3 at league minimum and the last 3 determined through arbitration. This means that teams oftentimes wait longer in order to maximize the years of his prime under team control.

Hockey doesn't work the same way, you get 2 slide years before the 3 year ELC starts counting at which point they become an RFA. I would argue that it is beneficial for the teams to get through the ELC years of high end prospects earlier, so they can sign a long term deals before they are finished developing. I like to look at Pastrnak as a great example. He joined the Bruins at 18 and did most of his developing with the big league team, by his 3rd season he had just begun to break out and the Bruins were able to sign him to a very team friendly deal. Now they have a guy scoring .7 GPG on a 6.6 AAV deal.

I'm pretty sure the point was Moller clearly wasn't physically ready. Ditto Loktionov, if you need another example. The guy had his arm ripped out of socket randomly stiffarming an Oiler skating casually through the neutral zone.

No, not comparable to Byfield/Stutzle in most ways, but I'm also not sure why sending a guy down would be considered the end of the world if he weren't fully ready, other than this bias that a high pick automatically fails if he shows he needs more development. I think you can make the argument that hanging around the NHL would be more beneficial too, for what it's worth, I'm just not seeing this "send him down in no circumstances whatsoever or he's a failure" line of thinking I guess.

 

[ru4reals]

Rushing prospects is the most overrated stigma on this website

Theres literally zero proof you can ever bring up that can prove a prospect would have done better with time off unless they have confidence issues known by the media or physically get hurt because theyre too small

Name the positives of playing in an inferior league with inferior nutritionists, trainers, practices, coaching, etc. The only time its a negative is when the guy is playing 12mins a game and not 16-20 like he would in college - which wouldnt be the case for Byfield or Stutzle

Majority of prospects get sent back because they are not ready. If rushing a prospects is overrated then my goodness every GM in the NHL is doing a crap job SENDING MOST OF THEIR TOP PROSPECTS BACK TO JUNIORS or THEIR EUROPEAN LEAGUES. So if they're not ready and play 9 NHL games, and it's obvious they are getting owned every night you're gonna keep them the whole season. FOR THE EXPERIENCE!!! Not every kid is McJesus, Crosby, and Ovechkin. Thank goodness we're not the Devils and patient with out kids.

 

[crassbonanza]

I'm pretty sure the point was Moller clearly wasn't physically ready. Ditto Loktionov, if you need another example. The guy had his arm ripped out of socket randomly stiffarming an Oiler skating casually through the neutral zone.

I don't think we need to worry about this part with Byfield or Stutzle, they both seem to be NHL size. Honestly, the guy that worried me the most in this regard recently was Pettersson, his rookie season had me cringing every time he took a hit.

I think you can make the argument that hanging around the NHL would be more beneficial too, for what it's worth, I'm just not seeing this "send him down in no circumstances whatsoever or he's a failure" line of thinking I guess.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you on this part, I was just providing a counter argument to the over developing concept. I think there are plenty of valid arguments for joining the Kings at 18 for Byfield/Stutzle and just as many for them not to be in the NHL. I do find the whole discussion interesting because it brings into account another factor. Byfield is limited to CHL or the NHL, while Stutzle can go to Ontario. I think if Byfield is drafted that he has a much better chance of being on the Kings next season than Stutzle would for this very reason.

 

[crassbonanza]

Majority of prospects get sent back because they are not ready. If rushing a prospects is overrated then my goodness every GM in the NHL is doing a crap job SENDING MOST OF THEIR TOP PROSPECTS BACK TO JUNIORS or THEIR EUROPEAN LEAGUES. So if they're not ready and play 9 NHL games, and it's obvious they are getting owned every night you're gonna keep them the whole season. FOR THE EXPERIENCE!!! Not every kid is McJesus, Crosby, and Ovechkin. Thank goodness we're not the Devils and patient with out kids.

Of course in a 217 player draft a majority will be sent back because they are not ready, but a vast majority of top 3 picks are not sent back.

 

[Token]

OMFG !!!

We ruined Doughty when we played him in 08/09!!!

Speaking of ole’ baby-face Dewey, since the last time we drafted 2OA, only one prospect taken at that spot went back down to Jr. Sam Reinhart.

Everyone else pretty much rocked it.

At worst, we pull off a Schenn type maneuver and do the 9-game then WJC then decide where he goes. And with the late season start that might be a thing.

But nah, the 2OA is playing NHL hockey in their D+1 year. History.

 

[redcard]

We still don't know if the OHL/AHL are going to start on time, and if they do start on time, if there would be any exceptions to the rule allowing teams to call up players from the OHL for training camp in December. These details are going to have pretty substantial impacts on where QB plays next year.

 

[Rusty Batch]

We are projecting guys like Martin Frk, Dustin Brown, and Kempe playing a top 6 role for our team. While not projecting the second overall pick or the 7th (Turcotte) and 8th (Kaliyev) best prospects (according to Wheeler from The Athletic) not to mention Fagemo (who has two full seasons in the SHL under his belt) to make the roster.

I'm not saying they should be just given top 6 roles. But they should certainly be given the opportunity to win a top 6 role... They are literally competing with obvious bottom sixers.