Who are your top 10 defenseman next season?

[Idiot Stick]

What metrics is everyone using to rank defensemen? 10 best in terms of what? Points? Defensive ability? Points for as opposed to points against (+\-)??

People’s lists seem random.

ranking defensemen by defensive ability is a foreign thing here

 

[Oddbob]

I like how people are crapping on Dahlin who had 59 pts which was tied for his team lead. Meanwhile Bouchard plays with 2 of the top 5ish players in the league as teammates. Switch them and Dahlin imo is looking far superior to Bouchard. Expecting a defenceman to do really well offensively while playing on a team that produced lower top end pt totals is silly. 59 pts is still a great season for most defenceman.

The only defender who had similar teammate production was Morrissey but WPG being a playoff team is better than non playoff team Buffalo. The rest all have far superior teammates to help get more pts.

 

[Laus723]

ranking defensemen by defensive ability is a foreign thing here

You can say that again. Lists are missing Slavin, for example, but it’s nice to see Forsling getting respect.

Just not clear in what they’re looking for in a top 10 defenseman.

 

[Machinehead]

You can say that again. Lists are missing Slavin, for example, but it’s nice to see Forsling getting respect.

Just not clear in what they’re looking for in a top 10 defenseman.

Offense?

Slavin is a very good player but his career high is 42 points. You have to be great on both ends to be in the top 10.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

1 - Makar
2 - Hughes
3 - Josi
4 - Fox
5 - Mcavoy
6 - Slavin
7 - Morrisey
8 - Heiskanen
9 - Dahlin
10 - Bouchard

 

[Captain34]

1. Chris Tanev

 

[Laus723]

Offense?

Slavin is a very good player but his career high is 42 points. You have to be great on both ends to be in the top 10.

So, then you’re making listing of the top offensive defenders? Slavin is an elite defender, but people have included Forsling and he had 39 points but the best +\-. Question should apparently be, “who’s the top 10 Norris candidates.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Offense?

Slavin is a very good player but his career high is 42 points. You have to be great on both ends to be in the top 10.

I mean that's like saying Langway wasnt a top 10 dman in the 80s

Slavin is very much a top ten dman in the league

 

[OilWagon]

Bouchard has the highest 5v5 xgf% in regular season for defenseman. He follows it up by leading in that stat in playoffs and has the 3rd most points for a defenseman in playoff history.

Some posters still don't think he's good, truly impressive how some posters will stick to their awful takes on this website.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean that's like saying Langway wasnt a top 10 dman in the 80s

Slavin is very much a top ten dman in the league

He's not Langway defensively. That's ridiculous.

So, then you’re making listing of the top offensive defenders? Slavin is an elite defender, but people have included Forsling and he had 39 points but the best +\-. Question should apparently be, “who’s the top 10 Norris candidates.

It's pretty simple, really.

To be in the top 10, you can't be bad on either end of the ice. That's why nobody is including Karlsson.

Slavin is just straight-up bad at offense. His production, playing 22 minutes a game, is terrible.

I'm open to Forsling being in the top 10 because he's had Montour ahead of him on the powerplay. He's certainly not bad at offense. Carolina had a huge hole at PPQB this year and wouldn't give the keys to Slavin. That's pretty telling about his offensive ability.

Not having a legit #1 D is the main reason Carolina can't get over the hump.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Offense?

Slavin is a very good player but his career high is 42 points. You have to be great on both ends to be in the top 10.

I would agree with that, but it seems many around here are focused only on offense.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

He's not Langway defensively. That's ridiculous.

It's pretty simple, really.

To be in the top 10, you can't be bad on either end of the ice. That's why nobody is including Karlsson.

Slavin is just straight-up bad at offense. His production, playing 22 minutes a game, is terrible.

I'm open to Forsling being in the top 10 because he's had Montour ahead of him on the powerplay. He's certainly not bad at offense. Carolina had a huge hole at PPQB this year and wouldn't give the keys to Slavin. That's pretty telling about his offensive ability.

Not having a legit #1 D is the main reason Carolina can't get over the hump.

Slavin with out a doubt a #1 dman

your take is 100% completely wrong

The purpose of a defenseman is to defend in which Slavin does better than any player in the NHL

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He's not Langway defensively. That's ridiculous.

It's pretty simple, really.

To be in the top 10, you can't be bad on either end of the ice. That's why nobody is including Karlsson.

Slavin is just straight-up bad at offense. His production, playing 22 minutes a game, is terrible.

I'm open to Forsling being in the top 10 because he's had Montour ahead of him on the powerplay. He's certainly not bad at offense. Carolina had a huge hole at PPQB this year and wouldn't give the keys to Slavin. That's pretty telling about his offensive ability.

Not having a legit #1 D is the main reason Carolina can't get over the hump.

Slavin has historically had very good 5on5 offensive production. Also, why does it fall to the team's #1 d-man to be the PP QB? Not putting Slavin in that role isn't an indictment of him. They need better offensive players.

 

[Machinehead]

I would agree with that, but it seems many around here are focused only on offense.

Tbh I'm not seeing that at all.

Nobody is including Karlsson, Matheson, Rielly, Gostisbehere, or Werenski, all of whom had 55+ points.

I think the offensive bias is imagined because it's just such a talking point.

All of the top producers (and to be in the top 10, you should probably be one of those and good at defense) on people's lists are at least net positives defensively: Josi, Makar, Hughes, Bouchard, Fox, Morrissey, etc. People have mentioned Dahlin - he's good defensively.

The only guy on lists that legit sucks at defense is Hedman and I think that's just because people are remembering what Hedman was in his prime and don't realize yet that he sucks defensively.

What defensive ace isn't being included that should be, that's warranting this "oh it's just offense" backlash? Heiskanen is on most lists. Forsling is on some lists and I think borderline top 10 is about right for him at this point. Slavin is on like 20 lists and that's 20 more than he deserves to be on.

If you're going to assert offensive bias, you're gonna have to point to where you're seeing it because I don't see it at all in this thread.

 

[norrisnick]

He's not Langway defensively. That's ridiculous.

It's pretty simple, really.

To be in the top 10, you can't be bad on either end of the ice. That's why nobody is including Karlsson.

Slavin is just straight-up bad at offense. His production, playing 22 minutes a game, is terrible.

I'm open to Forsling being in the top 10 because he's had Montour ahead of him on the powerplay. He's certainly not bad at offense. Carolina had a huge hole at PPQB this year and wouldn't give the keys to Slavin. That's pretty telling about his offensive ability.

Not having a legit #1 D is the main reason Carolina can't get over the hump.

Here is the list of defensemen within 5 points (either direction) of Slavin at ES this season.

Dahlin, Karlsson, Fox, Rielly, Harley, Hronek, Forsling, Sanheim, Weegar, McAvoy, Heiskanen, Hanifin, Matheson, Faber, Skjei, Carlson, Andersson, Pettersson, DeMelo, Doughty, Dunn.

Playing on the PP or not playing on the PP is the biggest driver in defenseman offensive numbers. And if you're not going to play Burns on the PP (who outproduced Montour on the PP this season) why is he even on your roster?

 

[Machinehead]

Here is the list of defensemen within 5 points (either direction) of Slavin at ES this season.

Dahlin, Karlsson, Fox, Rielly, Harley, Hronek, Forsling, Sanheim, Weegar, McAvoy, Heiskanen, Hanifin, Matheson, Faber, Skjei, Carlson, Andersson, Pettersson, DeMelo, Doughty, Dunn.

Playing on the PP or not playing on the PP is the biggest driver in defenseman offensive numbers. And if you're not going to play Burns on the PP (who outproduced Montour on the PP this season) why is he even on your roster?

Ok, but I think a fair follow up questions is: why does Carolina keep acquiring PPQB's?

A top 10 defenseman in the world runs their team's powerplay. I guess I have high standards for being top 10. I thought it was like, you know, the 10 best in the world or something.

 

[waitin425]

1. Kaiden Guhle
2. Lane Hutson
3. David Reinbacher
4. Logan Mailloux
5. Arber Xhekaj
6. Adam Engstorm
7. Bogdan Konyushkov
8. Mike Matheson
9. P.K. Subban
10. Justin Barron

 

[norrisnick]

Ok, but I think a fair follow up questions is: why does Carolina keep acquiring PPQB's?

A top 10 defenseman in the world runs their team's powerplay. I guess I have high standards for being top 10. I thought it was like, you know, the 10 best in the world or something.

Because for whatever reason, they prefer specialists in that role. Carolina does a lot of really weird shit.

I'll take a D that excels at ES and the PK over a D that is ok at ES and excels at the PP all day every day.

 

[Machinehead]

Because for whatever reason, they prefer specialists in that role.

I'll take a D that excels at ES and the PK over a D that is ok at ES and excels at the PP all day every day.

Then what about MacKenzie Weegar who is just as good defensively and scored 17 even strength goals?

I just don't see it with Slavin. Good player, but no way he's in the top 10.

He's just the darling that all the hipsters latched onto like OEL was when I first joined the site.

 

[dgibb10]

In terms of kids who could potentially make that big jump this year, I'll throw in, in order of likelihood.

Sanderson, Faber, Hughes

 

[Machinehead]

And poor Devon Toews who is in like the 100th percentile at even strength, but nobody cares because Cale Makar is on his team.

There's better Slavin's than Slavin.

 

[dgibb10]

Then what about MacKenzie Weegar who is just as good defensively and scored 17 even strength goals?

I just don't see it with Slavin. Good player, but no way he's in the top 10.

He's just the darling that all the hipsters latched onto like OEL was when I first joined the site.

Weegar is not close to as good defensively, especially last year

 

[norrisnick]

Then what about MacKenzie Weegar who is just as good defensively and scored 17 even strength goals?

I just don't see it with Slavin. Good player, but no way he's in the top 10.

He's just the darling that all the hipsters latched onto like OEL was when I first joined the site.

Weegar had exactly 1 more ES point than Slavin. And he's not even remotely as good defensively.

 

[Machinehead]

Weegar is not close to as good defensively, especially last year

He had a down year defensively but his standards, but he's been right there every other year.

 

[norrisnick]

And poor Devon Toews who is in like the 100th percentile at even strength, but nobody cares because Cale Makar is on his team.

There's better Slavin's than Slavin.

You wanna be in the top 10, you can't be the 2nd best D on your pairing...