Norris has once again had 3 surgeries on the same shoulder.
Which team has the brighter future? OTT/DET/MTL/BUF
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Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
I'm not saying it's meaningless at all. I am pointing out the FACT that the difference in the number of games played between the 2 players mostly happened due to that ONE season. In the 3 other seasons, Norris actually played 5 more games.
It also means than at the end of the day, it could stay like that or even out. It could get worse for Norris too, as you say, had to go for a 3rd surgery (just like Tarasenko by the way). It remains to be seen but as of now, the problem is mainly due to that one season.
Really, it was not supposed to be complicated lol but we are on the internet so I guess I'm not surprised about anything anymore.
bert
Registered User
Yeah He is toast.
Whats not to understand? Its consistent in every thread. Always negative, always coming down on every sens player in every thread. I dont get it, but you clearly have an issue.
Ehh. Montreal has prospects with high potential. I think your argument could be more placed that they don't have prospects with the highest potential in the necessary positions.
Slaf (Not a prospect really, but young enough) and Demidov both being wingers are nice to have, but contenders are typically built down the middle and on defense.
Honestly, Montreal seems a lot like Detroit a few years ago. Loaded with good defensive prospects and good winger prospects, but one fringe top line center (Suzuki/Larkin) and pretty gross down the middle outside that. Detroit's built on that with Kasper/Danielson, but remains to be seen if either of those can be a top 6 center or just middle 6.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
The Sens 2020 draft will be considered one of the best in NHL history (I said as such on HF just after the draft), it's not common in any way, shape or form
It's one of the very few great (Karlsson and Pageau trades) or even good things Pierre Dorion did, can't take that away from him lol
Can't argue with all of this because I crapped on Dorion a LOT MORE than you just did and for years but while the current pool is nothing like it used to be and not comparable to rebuilding teams, it's going to be underrated due to the way it was handled the last 3 years. The way Dorion squandered draft picks is beyond frustrating.
We are currently doing the ranking on the Sens board and so far :
1- Carter Yakemchuk
2- Tyler Kleven
3- Zack Ostapchuk
4- Stephen Halliday
5- Mads Søgaard
6- Leevi Merilainen
IMO Jorian Donovan and Matthew Andonovski should have been ranked above Merilainen and while the pool is nothing to write home about, it will produce many NHL players in the next 4-5 years. Then you have guys like Angus Crookshank and Maxence Guénette who will play in the NHL (but no idea how long) and young reclamation projects like Xavier Bourgault and Jan Jeník who were recently highly rated. Tyler Boucher could be a good bottom-6 forward if he is ever able to stay healthy. Oskar Pettersson also have a high floor (but not much upside). Finally, you have some intriguing freshly drafted prospects like Gabriel Eliasson, Javon Moore and Blake Montgomery
I think this pool lacks 2 top prospects (1st rounders from either 2021, 2022 or 2023) and at least another good prospect (one of the 2nd rounders that we stupidly lost?) but outside of that, it's pretty good. It's just that it can't be compared to good pools because of that gigantic hole in the top-5
Add Marco Kasper and Brayden Yager for example and it becomes a good pool
1- Carter Yakemchuk
2- Brayden Yager
3- Marco Kasper
4- Tyler Kleven
5- Stephen Halliday
6- Zack Ostapchuk
7- Mads Søgaard
8- Jorian Donovan
9- Matthew Andonovski
10- Xavier Bourgault
11- Angus Crookshank
12- Maxence Guénette
13- Leevi Merilainen
14- Oskar Pettersson
15- Jan Jeník
The Sens 2020 draft isn't even the best draft in the last 10 years...
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
You're refering to Dallas draft that might be the 2nd best of all-time... that's why
But make a list... and let's see
I'd assume you're ranking Detroit 1989 #1...
Top of my head in just 3 minutes of looking around, you'll have to let Stutzle and Sanderson's careers play out before you can put that draft over both Anaheim and Nashville's 2003 drafts.
That's only 3 minutes of searching, and among the Detroit '89, Dallas '17, and Anaheim/Nashville '03 drafts, there's only one Top 5 pick. Stutzle and Sanderson both were Top 5.
Ottawa's 2020 draft is more comparable to Vancouver '99 than any of those.
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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Once again, they’re both injury prone players. Jack’s injuries woes.
| 4/9/24 | Shoulder surgery |
| 1/5/24 | Upper Body |
| 11/3/23 | Shoulder |
| 2/7/23 | Upper Body |
| 4/5/22 | Knee |
| 10/19/21 | Shoulder dislocated |
| 1/2/20 | Upper Body |
| 11/30/19 | Lower-Body |
Golden_Jet
Registered User
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I see one team in the last decade you listed, Maybe your google search is broken.
BondraTime
Registered User
Yeah, it's almost like he said "One of the best in history", not the last decade.
Nevermind that I qualified in the original post that part of the reason it's not all that remarkable is that both the elite players they got were Top 5 picks. Good on them for getting two Top 5 picks, but how many times has that happened in the history of the draft?
bert
Registered User
Essentially yes thats what I am saying. I mean there is an outside chance that Reinbacher becomes a #1 d man but I see him at his absolute best as a complimentary #2. I think Hutson will be a good offensive player but not a #1 d man as his size and explosive skating are going to limit his ability to defend. Before anyone mentions Quinn Hughes he is a much better skater and is a much thicker person in build. I like Guhle too but he is a #2 at best if he reaches that.
If Demidov and Slafkovsky absolutely hit atleast one will have to carry a line it could all work out.
But those are alot of if's I don't like the way they are built. I do think Suzuki is a solid solid player though with elite wingers it could create a legit first line.
Buffalo is built the best and while Ottawa doesnt have a ton of depth they have core pieces in the right places. They have depth down the middle with an elite talent at 1C and what looks like a really good two way #2 who has size, who shots the other way in Pinto. They have a #1 d man and they have a unicorn type offensive physical player in Tkachuk. They just gotta fill the holes around them assuming they can take another step.
If I had to pick one team its pretty easily Buffalo they have the elite pieces in important positions and as good prospect depth if not better than Montreal.
Feels like this is a selection among least worst options.
Ottawa has had issues with injury and some blunders both making selections and trading for guys who didn't work out. Now it's questions on if Ullmark will stay and can he provide the goaltending they need behind the Sens instead of the Bruins. Their 1C and 1D though are probably the best as a duo of these four teams. Ulllmark behind the Bruins disciplined team was excellent, will they support him enough to do what he does and will he stay?
Detroit doesn't have the high end center but they have probably the 2nd best out of the group in Larkin but then it's what comes next and do the workmanlike guys who Yzerman has been collecting break through (I think Danielson does and that will give them a marked advantage as a 1C/2C combo with him and Larkin that I don't have as firm a feeling about with the rest due to health issues of guys like Norris and Dach or consistency issues of a guy like Thompson or Cozens). Sieder is fascinating - buried defensively but I've seen this show before with Ristolainen and keep wondering why they are doing this to the kid and worry that they could stunt him. I'd say they have one of the best prospect goalies in the bunch with how Decosta has righted his development path but in the here-and-now, they haven't had a lot of consistency.
Montreal has probably the third best center IMO of the four in Suzuki yet is he enough to be a high-end 1C to outperform/control the likes of Point or Matthews or Barkov in the division or even be on par with Larkin? It's a question to answer and I think Larkin is a slice above. And while there is a fine collection of prospects, we know that some prospects become suspects along the way since some players never reach their potential. Slaf and Caufield are solid, so too is Guhle, but is it enough to differentiate them from the rest? Maybe, maybe not. And we know goaltending is volatile so will Primeau build off last season? It's a bigger question for me than Ullmark in Ottawa.
Buffalo has a lot of younger guys in positions that either need to rebound from down years (Cozens, Byram) or injury (Quinn) and find a way to integrate prospects (again some will become suspects along the way). I don't know if their team building is sufficient and their consistent attachment to their internal guys with a public inability to get it done when it comes to trades to improve the core and just constant issues with inexperienced managers... there are too many questions that have to be "yes" for me to rank them first.
Again... it's the least worst options.
Ottawa has had issues with injury and some blunders both making selections and trading for guys who didn't work out. Now it's questions on if Ullmark will stay and can he provide the goaltending they need behind the Sens instead of the Bruins. Their 1C and 1D though are probably the best as a duo of these four teams. Ulllmark behind the Bruins disciplined team was excellent, will they support him enough to do what he does and will he stay?
Detroit doesn't have the high end center but they have probably the 2nd best out of the group in Larkin but then it's what comes next and do the workmanlike guys who Yzerman has been collecting break through (I think Danielson does and that will give them a marked advantage as a 1C/2C combo with him and Larkin that I don't have as firm a feeling about with the rest due to health issues of guys like Norris and Dach or consistency issues of a guy like Thompson or Cozens). Sieder is fascinating - buried defensively but I've seen this show before with Ristolainen and keep wondering why they are doing this to the kid and worry that they could stunt him. I'd say they have one of the best prospect goalies in the bunch with how Decosta has righted his development path but in the here-and-now, they haven't had a lot of consistency.
Montreal has probably the third best center IMO of the four in Suzuki yet is he enough to be a high-end 1C to outperform/control the likes of Point or Matthews or Barkov in the division or even be on par with Larkin? It's a question to answer and I think Larkin is a slice above. And while there is a fine collection of prospects, we know that some prospects become suspects along the way since some players never reach their potential. Slaf and Caufield are solid, so too is Guhle, but is it enough to differentiate them from the rest? Maybe, maybe not. And we know goaltending is volatile so will Primeau build off last season? It's a bigger question for me than Ullmark in Ottawa.
Buffalo has a lot of younger guys in positions that either need to rebound from down years (Cozens, Byram) or injury (Quinn) and find a way to integrate prospects (again some will become suspects along the way). I don't know if their team building is sufficient and their consistent attachment to their internal guys with a public inability to get it done when it comes to trades to improve the core and just constant issues with inexperienced managers... there are too many questions that have to be "yes" for me to rank them first.
Again... it's the least worst options.
Golden_Jet
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That’s what happens when you trade a 2 time Norris’s winner and twice runner up I guess, while rebuilding.
It’s happened 5x since the late 80’s.
Golden_Jet
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Yep was nice, getting a top 3 pick, albeit from trading Karlsson.Yeah, I'm betting both Ottawa and SJS expected that was going to be a Top 3 pick.
Sure beats being bumped down 3 spots all the time during the rebuild, like Sens and wings had.
Yeah bud, it canceled out y'all trading 4th for Duchene the year before.
3 shoulder surgeries, same shoulder.
Surely Jack, being as injury prone as he is, doesn't have more points in the last 3 years than every single member of the senators?
Just Linda
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- Feb 24, 2018
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You listed a bunch of players and a few prospects, I don't see their route to contention from those players.
Ottawa had a negative goal differential last year of -25.
A solid playoff team has a goal differential of +50. Teams can make it with less but rarely do well if they have less.
Ottawa has to get +75 goal differential to make the playoffs. That's a huge barrier.
They'll be going from Korpisalo (-20 GSAA) to Ullmark (+13) GSAA last year, that'll cut that 75 down to around 40. They'll have to also offset the loss Claude Giroux's production as he declines, that'll pretty much offset Grieg's developmental contribution.
I feel Batherson, Stutzle, and Tkachuk make up a really decent top line (or options for a top line). Grieg and Pinto will be nice secondary pieces for sure. Perron and Giroux will play their part too. It's just... the guns fall short of Tampa, Florida, Toronto. You had to list Halliday on that list, he might not even develop into a full-time NHLer.
Getting Ullmark to exceed his GSAA will rely on the D keeping the puck out of their zone. Klevin will help, there's others who might help in 3-4 years when they develop, right now I'm not convinced those guys are the guys to do it,
I just don't see the route to overcoming such a gap.
Golden_Jet
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Moist ReadOnly
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