Which team has the brighter future? OTT/DET/MTL/BUF

[Golden_Jet]

I like buffalo's goaltending and dcore long term the most, so I'll say them.

I prefer the goalie who won the Vezina in 2023.

 

[dgibb10]

I prefer the goalie who won the Vezina in 2023.

Yes, that is why I said long term. Ullmark is signed for 1 year and based on the track record with ottawa, I would not be shocked at all if he was gone after that.

I very much like UPL as a starter and Levi as a 1B long term

 

[bert]

Montreal might be the most overrated team in hockey. No number 1 d man no true number 1 center.

Its definitely Buffalo but they always find ways to fail.

I agree Buffalo has the best core of young players and prospects. They're really good where it matters. Top pairing d men and elite centers with size. Just a matter of time before it comes together.

I am a sens fan btw.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

The Senators don't have a 2nd line center

The Wings don't have a 2nd line center

The Habs Maybe have a 2nd line center but Dach is made out of glass

Buffalo is the only team with legit top two centers.

Shane Pinto is the 2nd line center

 

[Tanknation]

Montreal

People make fun of the Leafs playoff woes - and rightfully so, it is funny - but one thing they absolutey did right is they managed to make the playoffs in year 1 of Matthews. And - they've qualified every year since.

It seriously shouldn't be this hard to make the playoffs. Teams go up and down all the time. Yet for some reason, all of Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit have floundered and been unable to qualify even though they've all been in a position where they should for a few years now.

Losing leads to losing.

It's possible 3-4 years from now Montreal has the same issue, but I doubt it. They probably don't make playoffs this year, but are probably right back in it next year. Lots of great prospects, good management too. And unlike the other 3 - they aren't saddled with a losing culture with their core.

Yes but Leafs did not make the playoffs in 10 years out of 11 right before Mathews was drafted though. So it was not like an overnight thing. It was just as bad and the Sens if not worse, and almost as bad as Buffalo.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Ottawa has a worse prospect pool than the Penguins, so not them.

On paper Buffalo's talent blows away the pack.

But IMO we're starting to see that Ottawa and Buffalo both have assembled talent with a lack of team identity, whereas Detroit may not "Wow" you as much, but is very clearly assembling a like-minded group of prospects/young players that work their ass off and are a pain in the dick to play against.

Hard to tell on Montreal considering they've got a handful of stud prospects.

I really like this description of Detroit. I was thinking that they'd be the most likely to put it together, but wasn't able to really describe why until I read what you wrote. That's exactly why.
I think if Buffalo could put it together, then they would have the brightest future, but Detroit seems more likely to actually do so, so they've got my vote.
Montreal is still too far away to make a decent guess about what their future will be.

 

[Mrb1p]

I like buffalo's goaltending and dcore long term the most, so I'll say them.

I also very much liked Malenstyn and Mcleod as targets to get faster in the bottom 6.


Dach is a PP merchant winger. Pinto/Norris is a MUCH better 2C bet than Dach. So is Newhook tbh.

His only career success has come on the PP, and on Nick Suzuki's wing

Dach is a PP merchant winger? Wut?

Montreal might be the most overrated team in hockey. No number 1 d man no true number 1 center.


I agree Buffalo has the best core of young players and prospects. They're really good where it matters. Top pairing d men and elite centers with size. Just a matter of time before it comes together.

I am a sens fan btw.

No true number 1 but they have the best center currently of all these teams LMAOOOOO

 

[dgibb10]

Dach is a PP merchant winger? Wut?


No true number 1 but they have the best center currently of all these teams LMAOOOOO

Yes. His career high is 19 points 5v5. Atrocious, especially considering the linemates he's had and ice time he's gotten

And other than a stretch on suzuki's wing, his possession and defensive results have been horrific.

Now coming off a torn ACL.

He's played less games in the last 4 years than Norris, because he's also injury prone.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yes. His career high is 19 points 5v5. Atrocious, especially considering the linemates he's had and ice time he's gotten

And other than a stretch on suzuki's wing, his possession and defensive results have been horrific.

Now coming off a torn ACL.

He's played less games in the last 4 years than Norris, because he's also injury prone.

Freak injuries, he's injury prone and it's very uncertain if he ever amounts to anything. Those are facts.

Calling Dach a PP merchant winger is incredibly disingenuous though, he's so much more than that.

 

[dgibb10]

Freak injuries, he's injury prone and it's very uncertain if he ever amounts to anything. Those are facts.

Calling Dach a PP merchant winger is incredibly disingenuous though, he's so much more than that.

Based on?

Again, he has never had any success in the NHL when playing center.

He has never had great production at any spot other than the PP.

 

[Mrb1p]

Based on?

Again, he has never had any success in the NHL when playing center.

He has never had great production at any spot other than the PP.

Do you mean to tell me you're surprised a basically rookie C didn't produce with the corpse of Dadonov, Hoffman, Drouin and Anderson on their wing? Damn, that's some next level analysis.

 

[dgibb10]

Do you mean to tell me you're surprised a basically rookie C didn't produce with the corpse of Dadonov, Hoffman, Drouin and Anderson on their wing? Damn, that's some next level analysis.

He was in his 4th year. With 150 games under his belt.

He was also unable to do anything decent with Alex Debrincat, or Patrick Kane.

 

[bert]

Dach is a PP merchant winger? Wut?


No true number 1 but they have the best center currently of all these teams LMAOOOOO

Keep dreaming.

 

[Hobnobs]

Dach is a PP merchant winger? Wut?


No true number 1 but they have the best center currently of all these teams LMAOOOOO

 

[Just Linda]

The answer should be Buffalo. There's still quite a bit of work for them to be successful but they have everything in place to build around.

Of the 4 teams, Buffalo has the best d imo. Power, Dahlin, Jokiharu, and Byram are all great, young players to build around, Samuelson might have more to give, they have depth options (not a fan of Dryson though). They've also got some good pieces that have shots of making it down the road. They should be able to figure something out with those players.

Up front, it should work. TT is a good enough centre to anchor a team imo, I'm not sold on Tuch being his winger and I like the idea of putting Peterka with Tuch and Cozens as the second line. They have so many options that could fill in and develop into the top 6 too. Krebs, Quinn, Benson, etc. Tons of great bottom six options, there should be legit position battles coming up.

In goal, I'm not high on Levi but I seem to like UPL a lot more than others as a potential option. If I'm right, UPL becomes a starter. If I'm wrong, Levi becomes a starter. Either way, Reimer is a great option to support them.

But I didn't pick them. They have the best roster on paper by a good stretch of these 4 teams but I've lost faith in them to put it together. I think that core in Pittsburgh, Boston, or any other successful market gets the job done but I don't trust Buffalo's management to get it done.

Detroit isn't my pick because I think they entered the mushy middle too soon. On D and in goal, they are absolutely set. Depth in both, they'll be golden. It's up front that I think they lack the firepower. I don't think they have a legit superstar in their system at all, I think they'll have a lower overall ceiling because of it. I think they'll get to the point where they can win a series or two, I don't think they could ever be a true threat with what they've got.

I have no faith in Ottawa. Other than in goal, I don't think they beat Detroit or Buffalo in any position. I think they'll have to reset the rebuild and quite soon.

I went with Montreal because I'm a homer. Half kidding but I think depth plus patience puts them above Detroit and Ottawa. If Buffalo wasn't Buffalo, Buffalo would easily be above the Habs though.

 

[SirloinUB]

Montreal

People make fun of the Leafs playoff woes - and rightfully so, it is funny - but one thing they absolutey did right is they managed to make the playoffs in year 1 of Matthews. And - they've qualified every year since.

It seriously shouldn't be this hard to make the playoffs. Teams go up and down all the time. Yet for some reason, all of Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit have floundered and been unable to qualify even though they've all been in a position where they should for a few years now.

Losing leads to losing.

It's possible 3-4 years from now Montreal has the same issue, but I doubt it. They probably don't make playoffs this year, but are probably right back in it next year. Lots of great prospects, good management too. And unlike the other 3 - they aren't saddled with a losing culture with their core.

"did right" is an interesting framing. Id argue what you are actually talking about is luck.

Some teams are fortunate enough to suck when a generational talent is available and were similarly fortunate to have a ping pong ball bounce favorably. But sure "they did it right"

 

[Canovin]

Ottawa. They got their #1C, #2C, #1D and #1G

 

[TageGod]

It's funny how long this discussion has been, all teams have been bad since like 2018 with the exception of a couple hot months by the Habs in the covid years when they were gifted playoff opportunities (great playoff run tho).

TBL, FLA, BOS and TOR have been playoff staples while these 4 teams continue to not figure it out.

Gonna use their Top 7 players (4F 3D and 1G) from those periods to compare to what these 4 teams will have over the next 5 or so years.


F1: Kucherov
F2: Point
F3: Stamkos
F4: Cirelli/Killorn/Palat

D1: Hedman
D2: McDonagh
D3: Sergachev

G: Vasilevskiy


F1: Barkov
F2: Tkachuk/Huberdeau
F3: Reinhart
F4: Verhaeghe

D1: Ekblad
D2: Weegar/Montour
D3: Forsling

G: Bobrovsky


F1: Bergeron
F2: Pastrnak
F3: Marchand
F4: Krejci

D1: McAvoy
D2: Chara
D3: Lindholm/Krug

G: Rask/Ullmark/Sway



F1: Matthews
F2: Marner
F3: Tavares
F4: Nylander

D1: Reilly
D2: Muzzin/Barrie
D3: Holl/Liljegren?

G: Andersen/Samsonov

Now for the Atlantic failures....


F1: Stützle
F2: Tkachuk
F3: Batherson
F4: Norris/Pinto/Greig

D1: Sanderson
D2: Chabot
D3: Zub/Yakemchuk

G: Ullmark


F1: Thompson
F2: Cozens
F3: Benson
F4: Quinn/Pererka

D1: Dahlin
D2: Power
D3: Byram/Samuelsson

G: Levi


F1: Larkin
F2: Raymond
F3: DeBrincat
F4: Danielson/Kasper

D1: Seider
D2: Edvinsson
D3: Pellikka?

G: Cossa


F1: Demidov
F2: Slavkovsky
F3: Caufield
F4: Suzuki

D1: Hutson
D2: Guhle
D3: Lindholm/Reinbacher

G: Primeau

Apologies if I missed some blatant ones. Capfriendly made this stuff a lot easier. Obviously these will loom very different even a year from now due to trades, signings, drafts and even value changes.

So based off of those groups, I would say that Buffalo and Ottawa have the biggest star power. Ottawa is by far the least deep, but I'd say Stützle/Tkachuk likely ends up as the best forward duo out of the group, if they're not already.

Best defence undoubtedly goes to Buffalo for now, but all 4 teams have multiple D men 21 and younger so that will change a lot.

I can't believe I'm saying these words but Ottawa undoubtedly has the best goalie right now. If Ullmark is only here one year, Ottawa has by far the worst goalies and I'd even go as far as saying overall group because of the weakness.

The biggest factor how successful these teams will be is coaching. I guess I'd give the edge to Lalonde right now but all of the coaching staffs leave a little to be desired, interested to see which one is best.

All this to say.... We all still suck but Go Sens Go

Great, but you missed Tuch on the Sabres. if UPL continues his awesome second half of the season last year, idk how anyone else gets the vote here.

 

[Sting]

People on here love to rag about the Sens' prospect pool but that's what happens when they hit big on 3 young prospects (Stu/Sanderson/Greig), 2 of which have turned into star/franchise level players. Not many teams have a draft like the 2020 Sens one.

In looking at these teams it's pretty impossible to predict because we all know most prospect pools never pan out even remotely close to the way they're projected.

If I look at team cores, I think the Sens are the obvious #1. They have 1C, 1D, 1G, and a good amount of complementary players.

The 3 other teams lack a 1G talent imo.

For one of the top prospect pools in the league, I don't see the Habs with a 1C, 1G, or 1D prospect. Hutson/Guhle, even if they hit, are probably not 1D players.

I remain mystified as to what Buffalo is doing and how they are building their team out. They have too many holes to fill and their asset management has been questionable. I don't think Tage is a player to build a forward group around.

The Wings always seem to perform better than I think they will. I think they have the most intriguing D-core highlighted by Seider and Edvinsson. I also like their draft mentality of strong two-way players.

So, in my opinion (that's what this post is about, right?), I see the Sens/Wings as being more likely to compete for the playoffs/Cup in the next several seasons.

 

[SirPaste]

Its a tough call, all these teams have exciting young players/prospects. I would say Buffalo probably leads the pack in that regard but that whole organization has been such a mess for so long that until they actually take that next step it's hard to believe they actually will. I think it's between Detroit and Montreal for me, coin flip

 

[Aladyyn]

People on here love to rag about the Sens' prospect pool but that's what happens when they hit big on 3 young prospects (Stu/Sanderson/Greig), 2 of which have turned into star/franchise level players. Not many teams have a draft like the 2020 Sens one.

In looking at these teams it's pretty impossible to predict because we all know most prospect pools never pan out even remotely close to the way they're projected.

If I look at team cores, I think the Sens are the obvious #1. They have 1C, 1D, 1G, and a good amount of complementary players.

The 3 other teams lack a 1G talent imo.

For one of the top prospect pools in the league, I don't see the Habs with a 1C, 1G, or 1D prospect. Hutson/Guhle, even if they hit, are probably not 1D players.

I remain mystified as to what Buffalo is doing and how they are building their team out. They have too many holes to fill and their asset management has been questionable. I don't think Tage is a player to build a forward group around.

The Wings always seem to perform better than I think they will. I think they have the most intriguing D-core highlighted by Seider and Edvinsson. I also like their draft mentality of strong two-way players.

So, in my opinion (that's what this post is about, right?), I see the Sens/Wings as being more likely to compete for the playoffs/Cup in the next several seasons.

This is a wild thing to say considering the fact that all of them have top prospects at the position (Detroit having multiple even) and 2 have actual real life starters that fit the timelines in UPL and Montembeault.

 

[Frank Drebin]

So during Bergys reign the Habs were always in it ?

Signing free agents, trying to win. They weren't good but they werent actively rebuilding

They werent' trying to sell vets for picks till 2021-22

 

[Sting]

This is a wild thing to say considering the fact that all of them have top prospects at the position (Detroit having multiple even) and 2 have actual real life starters that fit the timelines in UPL and Montembeault.

I don't believe UPL or Montembeault are quality #1 goalies. Maybe they'll be one some day. UPL in particular I think has a better shot there.

Also - yes, Detroit has excellent goaltending prospects. But we've all seen how incredibly challenging goaltending prospects are to evaluate. Most simply do not make it.

 

[1specter]

I think the Habs have a better management / coaching group and a good, balanced stable of prospects and young players to work with, plus some of those young guys gained playoff experience in the covid bubble. I'm gonna go with them. Buffalo / Ottawa might have the most talent, but they are such dysfunctional organizations it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not a fan of how the Wings are built currently, they might be closest to being a bubble playoff team but I don't think they have real contending potential unless there are some further drastic changes.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Montreal has the highest ceiling but are further away from reaching their ceiling.