Proposal: Which fan base would do this trade Matthew Knies For Jesper Wallstedt

Which fan base would do this trade and if so why?

  • Neutral fan would do the trade

    Votes: 28 5.3%
  • Neutral fan would not do the trade

    Votes: 225 42.2%
  • Toronto fan would do the trade

    Votes: 66 12.4%
  • Toronto fan would not do the trade

    Votes: 109 20.5%
  • Minnesota fan would do the trade

    Votes: 9 1.7%
  • Minnesota fan would not do the trade

    Votes: 96 18.0%

  • Total voters
    533

TaLoN

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I mean he didn't really play with Kaprizov last season and was injured or coming off injuries and still put up 21 goals in 74 games. I'd say that is more middle 6 than anything.
That's why I call him a utility forward. He's "capable" of playing multiple roles when needed. He CAN play up the lineup... you just don't want him there long term. If he's there long term, he's going to be exploited by better teams, like we've seen in the post season against teams with real top 6 centers.

3rd line is in the "middle 6"
 

Digitalbooya

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Exactly this. Time will tell, but I'd bet on more.
It missed the boat. I didn’t ask for a future projection. I asked what he is right now.
That's why I call him a utility forward. He's "capable" of playing multiple roles when needed. He CAN play up the lineup... you just don't want him there long term. If he's there long term, he's going to be exploited by better teams, like we've seen in the post season against teams with real top 6 centers.

3rd line is in the "middle 6"
Since the 21-22 season, Hartman leads the team in playoff points and has a positive +/-. Highest ppg among forwards with more than 1 game played. Far and away the most even strength points, darn near double each of Kaprizov and Zucc who are tied for second.

He obliterated Boldy’s production in that same time frame. I’d venture a guess you would call Boldy a 1st line forward, no?
 

TaLoN

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This isn't a thread about Hartman, it's about Knies and Wallstedt... you asked my thoughts when I said I expect Knies to end up as a better player, so I gave my opinion... I'm not going to keep debating Hartman with you beyond that here, because this isn't a place for that.
 

Digitalbooya

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This isn't a thread about Hartman, it's about Knies and Wallstedt... you asked my thoughts when I said I expect Knies to end up as a better player, so I gave my opinion... I'm not going to keep debating Hartman with you beyond that here, because this isn't a place for that.
It ties directly to you saying “I think Knies will end up MUCH better than Hartman.” Yet, when asked what you view Knies as, you call him a 2nd line forward while Hartman has shown he can be a 2nd line center. You then said that Hartman would get exposed in the playoffs against teams with “real top 6 centers”, creating a verifiably false narrative that Hartman is at best a 3rd line player on a good team.

I think Knies will end up exactly like Hartman of the last 3 years. 55-65 point player playing next to vastly superior talent (Kaprizov;Matthews;Marner).

If you’ve got Knies as a MUCH better player, how many points is that? 70? 80?
 

TaLoN

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Now explain how that is “MUCH better” than Hartman next to Kaprizov.
Because Hartman doesn't drive possession. Hartman was an opportunist at best next to Kap.
Hartman miscast as a top line center was noting but a bandaid forced by cap issues and lack of better talent.

Knies, if he ends up like Hartman, will be a disappointment.
 

Obvious Fabertism

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Because Hartman doesn't drive possession. Hartman was an opportunist at best next to Kap.
Hartman miscast as a top line center was noting but a bandaid forced by cap issues and lack of better talent.

Knies, if he ends up like Hartman, will be a disappointment.
Hartman was moved to the Kap line because he was driving offense on the third line, he earned the increased ice time and then kept it for quite a while through good play. He isn’t a true impact 1C but he is a very good player in his own right and you are underselling his performance here.

Scoring goals is not an easy feat in this league, anyone who puts up 30+ while being the prime defensively responsible player on their line has to know what they are doing. Knies probably can meet and exceed prime Hartman points wise, but it’s not even close to a sure thing at this point or even the likely outcome based on history.
 

TaLoN

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Hartman was moved to the Kap line because he was driving offense on the third line, he earned the increased ice time and then kept it for quite a while through good play. He isn’t a true impact 1C but he is a very good player in his own right and you are underselling his performance here.

Scoring goals is not an easy feat in this league, anyone who puts up 30+ while being the prime defensively responsible player on their line has to know what they are doing. Knies probably can meet and exceed prime Hartman points wise, but it’s not even close to a sure thing at this point or even the likely outcome based on history.
Yes, he was driving offense from the 3rd line, where he's best suited. He was more of a passenger on the top line, that got to the right spot at the right time while Kap and Zucc did the possession lifting. Then Zucc became bad at possession and the line started to fall because Hartman couldn't pick up the slack in possession.

I respect Hartman, but he's not a top 6 player on a playoff team.

That's my opinion and why I think Knies will be better and will be disappointing if he's not. I never said Knies was a sure thing.
 
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Digitalbooya

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Knies is going to be more of a driver of possession than Matthews and Marner(/Nylander if/when Marner leaves)? Otherwise he’s sitting in the same boat as Hartman was with Kaprizov and Zucc. The third best player on the line.

I think there is a serious lack of appreciation for Hartman. He’s an any situation kind of guy up and down the entire top 9 and he’s been by far our best playoff performer given his lack of power play time. If Knies put up 10 points in 11 playoff games, Leafs fans would be going absolutely nuts.

I don’t have a problem with viewing Knies as a really good 2nd line player and you know what, maybe he does put up 70+ points. I have a problem with the idea that Hartman isn’t viewed as a quality 2nd line player and that if Knies has a prolonged stint in this range level, that’s a disappointment? No. That’s a really good and under appreciated player.
 

TaLoN

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Knies is going to be more of a driver of possession than Matthews and Marner(/Nylander if/when Marner leaves)? Otherwise he’s sitting in the same boat as Hartman was with Kaprizov and Zucc. The third best player on the line.
He can be the 3rd best player without being just an opportunist. I said he'll drive possession. See my last post, when Zucc started to suck at possession, that line fell apart because Hartman couldn't pick up possession slack. Knies is a player who can help pick up slack in terms of possession. It won't be just a two man possession show with Knies just finding the right spot at the right time in the first place.

That 3 inch height and near 20lb weight difference over Hartman will only make his possession skills better the more he grows into his power forward role. He's going to be very tough to knock off the puck.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Yes, he was driving offense from the 3rd line, where he's best suited. He was more of a passenger on the top line, that got to the right spot at the right time while Kap and Zucc did the possession lifting. Then Zucc became bad at possession and the line started to fall because Hartman couldn't pick up the slack in possession.

I respect Hartman, but he's not a top 6 player on a playoff team.

That's my opinion and why I think Knies will be better and will be disappointing if he's not. I never said Knies was a sure thing.
I think Hartman could be the 6th best top 6 player on a playoff team. Plenty of playoff teams don't have 6 no-brainers in those spots.
 

AKL

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I think Hartman could be the 6th best top 6 player on a playoff team. Plenty of playoff teams don't have 6 no-brainers in those spots.

Wasn't that the role Tom Wilson played when Washington won the Cup? Hartman can do it. He's skilled enough to play that role and he would help create some space for his linemates. A Boldy-Rossi-Hartman line could be pretty good if Rossi takes another step this year.
 

TheKrebsCycle

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Wasn't that the role Tom Wilson played when Washington won the Cup? Hartman can do it. He's skilled enough to play that role and he would help create some space for his linemates. A Boldy-Rossi-Hartman line could be pretty good if Rossi takes another step this year.
Wasn’t the Boldy /Ek / Kap line incredibly productive to end the year ? That not the plan?
 

TheKrebsCycle

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Yes, very


Doesn't seem like it, that was also our only good line, sounds like they want more depth this year so they'll try putting Zuccarello back on a line with Kaprizov.
Ugh hasn’t zuc fallen off a bit ?
 

AKL

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Ugh hasn’t zuc fallen off a bit ?

Quite a bit, yes. He was not a very good player last season, which is why he was taken off the line with Kaprizov in the first place. He was effectively a third line PP specialist last season.
 

Webster

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Quite a bit, yes. He was not a very good player last season, which is why he was taken off the line with Kaprizov in the first place. He was effectively a third line PP specialist last season.

Zuccarello had 63 points in 69 games last season, half of it at even strength. Led the team in assists. Kaprizov's close buddy.

Give it a break...
 

Stopper420

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MLSE would never trade away a lock 50+ goal scorer in his prime for a massive potential goalie. Goals bring excitement.
 
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RationalExpectations

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As a neutral fan (MTL), I think neither team does this :

Given TOR cap structure, they need a Knies under ELC for one more year. After this, he could be signed thanks to Tavares money being reallocated between several players.

I am very high on Wallstedt, why would MIN trade him at this stage whereas he has the potential to be a very good starter
 

Auston Marlander

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Nov 3, 2011
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Young goalies are the biggest gamble in the game. We have a handful of them and Knies. While Wall is projected to be the best of the goalie group for Toronto and Min, I'm not sure the gap would be big enough to sacrifice Knies.

There's also a chance another young goalies doesn't pan out.

From a Toronto fan, it's too much of a gamble with not enough upside as things sit today.

From a Minny POV, I don't see why they give up on a really good goalie prospect for a very good, but not great Knies.
 
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