Proposal: Which fan base would do this trade Matthew Knies For Jesper Wallstedt

Which fan base would do this trade and if so why?

  • Neutral fan would do the trade

    Votes: 28 5.3%
  • Neutral fan would not do the trade

    Votes: 225 42.2%
  • Toronto fan would do the trade

    Votes: 66 12.4%
  • Toronto fan would not do the trade

    Votes: 109 20.5%
  • Minnesota fan would do the trade

    Votes: 9 1.7%
  • Minnesota fan would not do the trade

    Votes: 96 18.0%

  • Total voters
    533

staveNsteel

Registered User
Jan 18, 2021
136
277
How can he possibly be overrated? I’ve never seen anybody say he’s more than a 2nd liner/fill in on the top line? The guy plays the game the right way.

That's exactly how I see him.. however there are plenty of Leaf fans that view him as this untouchable core piece that could t be traded for anything. He's basically what JVR

That's exactly how I see him.. however there are plenty of Leaf fans that view him as this untouchable core piece that could t be traded for anything. He's basically what JVR

Would I trade a young JVR for the possibility of getting a young #1G with an extremely high pedigree that could stabilize the net for years, absolutely!
 

Lapa

Global Moderator
Feb 21, 2010
13,201
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I really like Knies, but we need Wallstedt more in the future.
 

Digitalbooya

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I'd be pretty surprised if he wasn't a good top 6 complimentary player.
Like, he gives lots of compliments? ;) I could see him being a complementary player, like a Boldy-lite.

You never know what you're going to get, until they've established themselves over a few years in the NHL. Jesper Wallstedt has 3 NHL games. Heck, in the AHL, Dennis Hildeby was better than Wallstedt.
One of the most outrageous takes in this thread. If you take into account the team they play for, a ,910 sv % on Iowa is more impressive than .913 on Toronto.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
25,445
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I'm going to disagree (and personally dislike the term "voodoo" when talking about goalies). Many factors come into play when developing a young goalie. In the case of Wallstedt, he's been a standout since a very young age, is very technically sound, and is currently adapting to his 3rd year in North America.

Team system of play and team defensive structure are also key factors in goalie development. How many shots does he see a game? What type of shots (high/low danger)?

How is he being developed? His lateral movements, glove hand, stick handling, timing, etc etc. It's not voodoo, it's a full system of development. Some goalie coaches are much better than others, many goalies (especially those with a higher pedigree) are given much more opportunity. Team development system at each level is important.

In this specific case, I see Wallstedt with the upside of a no.1 goalie, while being on a team with a good system to develop his skills. Knies I see as a very good 2W with the ability to fill in at 1W if need be.

If developed properly by each team, I'm easily taking the 1G over the 2W.. but again, that's if everything breaks right for each player based off of the systems they are currently in.

Yeah I guess I subscribe to the "factors around the goalie" playing a huge factor.... probably much moreso than the actual talent level of the goalie... which is why I'm philosophically against investing substantial assets into guys that aren't proven.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
25,445
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One of the most outrageous takes in this thread. If you take into account the team they play for, a ,910 sv % on Iowa is more impressive than .913 on Toronto.

Is it?

I'll be the first to admit, I don't watch the AHL... but I believe a somewhat reasonable way to judge goalie performance, is relative to their teammates.

Wallstedt had 2.70 / .910 in 45 games. The second most used goalie for the Wild was Zane McIntyre; who had a 3.41 / .881 in 24 games. So obviously, the Wild were a bit of a tire fire when not playing Wallstedt.

Hildeby had 2.41 / .913 in 41 games. The second most used goalie was Keith Petruzelli, who had a 3.55 / .867 in 17 games. They also had Luke Cavallin 3.01 / .884 in 9 games.

If you take Petruzelli & Cavallin's combined stats, it seems like the Marlies were about as big of a tire-fire without Hildeby as the Wild were without Wallstedt... maybe even a little moreso.

Wallstedt's younger of course, while this was Hildeby's first year vs. Wallstedt's 2nd.
 
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Digitalbooya

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Is it?

I'll be the first to admit, I don't watch the AHL... but I believe a somewhat reasonable way to judge goalie performance, is relative to their teammates.

Wallstedt had 2.70 / .910 in 45 games. The second most used goalie for the Wild was Zane McIntyre; who had a 3.41 / .881 in 24 games. So obviously, the Wild were a bit of a tire fire when not playing Wallstedt.

Hildeby had 2.41 / .913 in 41 games. The second most used goalie was Keith Petruzelli, who had a 3.55 / .867 in 17 games. They also had Luke Cavallin 3.01 / .884 in 9 games.

If you take Petruzelli & Cavallin's combined stats, it seems like the Marlies were about as big of a tire-fire without Hildeby as the Wild were without Wallstedt... maybe even a little moreso.

Wallstedt's younger of course, while this was Hildeby's first year vs. Wallstedt's 2nd.
Yet, Toronto was 13-15-5 without Hildeby and Iowa was 5-18-4 without Wallstedt.

Your theory using backups could come down to McIntyre just being better than Petruzelli and Cavallin. He is a 32 year old seasoned veteran afterall...

I know +/- isn't a fantastic stat, but it's pretty telling when Iowa has FIFTEEN (15!) players with a worse +/- than the worst +/- player on Toronto. Please do not try to tell me Toronto is more of a tire fire under any circumstance.

Anyways, I don't see any sane person saying Hildeby is better than Wallstedt. Are you legitimately going to make that argument?
 
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Joe n

Registered User
Aug 12, 2019
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Like, he gives lots of compliments? ;) I could see him being a complementary player, like a Boldy-lite.


One of the most outrageous takes in this thread. If you take into account the team they play for, a ,910 sv % on Iowa is more impressive than .913 on Toronto.
well he factually was.

Like, he gives lots of compliments? ;) I could see him being a complementary player, like a Boldy-lite.


One of the most outrageous takes in this thread. If you take into account the team they play for, a ,910 sv % on Iowa is more impressive than .913 on Toronto.
Marlies D last year was trash.
 

Digitalbooya

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well he factually was.


Marlies D last year was trash.
If you ignore all context. Cam Talbot had a better save percentage than Ilya Sorokin and Jake Oettinger this past season. Does that make Talbot better than those two?

Iowa’s D was clearly worse. It was grade A chance after grade A chance against in every game I watched for Iowa.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
25,445
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Yet, Toronto was 13-15-5 without Hildeby and Iowa was 5-18-4 without Wallstedt.

Your theory using backups could come down to McIntyre just being better than Petruzelli and Cavallin. He is a 32 year old seasoned veteran afterall...

I know +/- isn't a fantastic stat, but it's pretty telling when Iowa has FIFTEEN (15!) players with a worse +/- than the worst +/- player on Toronto. Please do not try to tell me Toronto is more of a tire fire under any circumstance.

Anyways, I don't see any sane person saying Hildeby is better than Wallstedt. Are you legitimately going to make that argument?

Yeah, my arguement is far from an exact science...

And no, I'm not arguing that Hildeby is better than Wallstedt -- I'd probably trade Hildeby for Wallstedt, just because of the hype around him.

That being said, when you start comparing young goalies vs. young skaters, is where I just don't place a great value on young goalies. They are very much an inexact science and there are so many examples of good Junior or AHL play never translating to the NHL (or unspectacular AHL play but excellent NHL play), and I don't believe in investing heavily in them; because of their propensity to disappoint.
 
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ThatGuy22

Registered User
Oct 11, 2011
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Is it?

I'll be the first to admit, I don't watch the AHL... but I believe a somewhat reasonable way to judge goalie performance, is relative to their teammates.

Wallstedt had 2.70 / .910 in 45 games. The second most used goalie for the Wild was Zane McIntyre; who had a 3.41 / .881 in 24 games. So obviously, the Wild were a bit of a tire fire when not playing Wallstedt.

Hildeby had 2.41 / .913 in 41 games. The second most used goalie was Keith Petruzelli, who had a 3.55 / .867 in 17 games. They also had Luke Cavallin 3.01 / .884 in 9 games.

If you take Petruzelli & Cavallin's combined stats, it seems like the Marlies were about as big of a tire-fire without Hildeby as the Wild were without Wallstedt... maybe even a little moreso.

Wallstedt's younger of course, while this was Hildeby's first year vs. Wallstedt's 2nd.
Petruzelli and Cavallinbare are ECHL/AHL tweeners that have no history of showing with any consistency they are better than the stats they put up.

McIntyre is a seasoned AHL vet of 300 games and career save percentage of .910, that's gotten actual NHL games. Maybe he just had a bad season, I think it's more indicative of the team in front of him .

Fact is Iowa Wild we're the 4th worst team in the league going 27-37, and Wallstedt managed to have a winning record going 22-19.

It was a herculean effort.
 

Joe n

Registered User
Aug 12, 2019
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Petruzelli and Cavallinbare are ECHL/AHL tweeners that have no history of showing with any consistency they are better than the stats they put up.

McIntyre is a seasoned AHL vet of 300 games and career save percentage of .910, that's gotten actual NHL games. Maybe he just had a bad season, I think it's more indicative of the team in front of him .

Fact is Iowa Wild we're the 4th worst team in the league going 27-37, and Wallstedt managed to have a winning record going 22-19.

It was a herculean effort.
Marlies scored about 65 more goals than Iowa while only giving up 25 less. Their wins were more often than not because the offence outscored their problems. If you think Topie Niemela, William Villeneuve, Max Lajoie and Mikko Kokkonen is a good D then I don't know what to tell you.
 

ThatGuy22

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Oct 11, 2011
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Marlies scored about 65 more goals than Iowa while only giving up 25 less. Their wins were more often than not because the offence outscored their problems. If you think Topie Niemela, William Villeneuve, Max Lajoie and Mikko Kokkonen is a good D then I don't know what to tell you.
25 less puts them middle of the pack. Marlies finished middle of the pack defensively and 2nd best offensively.

Iowa Wild we're Bottom 3 offensively and defensively. The team was horrific. Wallstedt still out up good numbers and managed to have a winning record while having among league worst offensive support and defensive support.

Again, a Herculean effort.
 

Digitalbooya

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Marlies scored about 65 more goals than Iowa while only giving up 25 less. Their wins were more often than not because the offence outscored their problems. If you think Topie Niemela, William Villeneuve, Max Lajoie and Mikko Kokkonen is a good D then I don't know what to tell you.
So you admit that that Toronto’s defense was bad and that Iowa’s defense was much worse. Sounds like you are in agreement with the poster you quoted.
 

Killswitch

Registered User
May 22, 2022
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I hope Wallsted turns out for Minny, but I'm not trading Knies for the chance he does. Maybe what we've seen of Knies is all he turns out as being, but he's in the NHL and played fine for a rookie.
 

Hazy Little Thing

Registered User
Jan 19, 2022
659
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This would essentially mean choosing Wallstedt over Hildeby for the future, and sacrificing a top 6, 22 year old to do so.

Leafs would never do this in a million years. Doesn't make any sense for them
Hildeby has nowhere near the potential of Wallstedt and knies is more a complimentary middle six guy like Nyquist than a top 6 guy.
 

DANOZ28

Registered User
May 22, 2012
7,110
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nearest bar MN
we are so thankful that EDM let us trade up for a top prospect goalie , nobody from mn in their right mind would give up on wally the beer goalie so soon.
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SAS

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
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Neutral fan here. A potential franchise goalie is worth more than a complimentary 2nd line winger. MN would be crazy to make this trade and TOR would be crazy to not make this trade.
 

Phion Keneuf

Bang Bang
Jul 4, 2010
35,616
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Neutral fan here. A potential franchise goalie is worth more than a complimentary 2nd line winger. MN would be crazy to make this trade and TOR would be crazy to not make this trade.
Who’s the franchise goalie and who’s the complimentary 2nd line winger?

Leafs aren’t trading a 21 YO 6’3 230 pound power forward with skill who happens to be a LW (weakest organizational position)
 

NotASheep

Registered User
Feb 23, 2019
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Knies is a sideman, Wall is projected to be a solid number 1 goalie in a few years. Unless Leafs are willing to admit Knies is the driver of his line and not that other guy he played with?
 

Namikaze Minato

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
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Knies is a sideman, Wall is projected to be a solid number 1 goalie in a few years. Unless Leafs are willing to admit Knies is the driver of his line and not that other guy he played with?
Using 1 players current position on their team and comparing that to how another player projects if everything goes right as your argument shows it is made in bad faith.

If I said knies is a top line NHL player and Wallstedt is an AHL goalie, it's technically correct but obviously done in bad faith but you have 0 problem pretending Knies is what he is at 21 while Wall has unlimited potential?
 

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