When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[newfy]

I mean Yzerman inherited Hedman and Stamkos and fluked out on grabbing a couple superstars with late picks in Kucherov and Point. While the Vasilevski pick was great, he also thought Slater Koekkok had more potential, so it goes to show how much of a role luck has when drafting.

Koekoek ended up suffering from really bad mental illness, so likely not as big of a miss as you think. Same with Drouin but not as bad as Koekoek likely. And how many superstars and really good players do you draft in later rounds before its not luck?

Oilers defenceman Slater Koekkoek details struggles with anxiety

Koekkoek shared an update on his LinkedIn page on why he left the game of hockey over a year ago saying he needed to show others that they were not alone in their battle against anxiety.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[BB88]

You do realize those thoughts were based on Bertuzzi and Vrana being healthy all year or most of the year, or not missing the lineup completely right? Another 40-50 goals combined from those 2 would have been great to have this season, and even then most of the Wings fans were still expecting us to miss the playoffs even with that. Also, every fan base has fans who over-do what they expect in a given season.



Since Yzerman took over, we have drafted 6th, 4th, 6th, 8th and again, what do we do different that makes us better in your eyes?

Their last offseason additions were 34y Perron, Maatta, Copp, Chiarot, Husso.
Not exactly barn burners.

You could also make a case he could have taken someone else with half his top picks

 

[Frank Drebin]

Koekoek ended up suffering from really bad mental illness, so likely not as big of a miss as you think. Same with Drouin but not as bad as Koekoek likely. And how many superstars and really good players do you draft in later rounds before its not luck?

Oilers defenceman Slater Koekkoek details struggles with anxiety

Koekkoek shared an update on his LinkedIn page on why he left the game of hockey over a year ago saying he needed to show others that they were not alone in their battle against anxiety.

www.sportsnet.ca

You prove its not luck by drafting them over and over again. Just like Ken Holland wasn't lucky with Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg.

 

[newfy]

You prove its not luck by drafting them over and over again. Just like Ken Holland wasn't lucky with Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg.

The wings had a run there where it definitely wasnt luck but the league caught onto their strategy. Yzerman has drafted enough stars at all points in the draft that its the last thing people should be questioning. The guy drafts good players no matter where he picks. Lots of promising later round guys are on their way in Detroit but its too early to judge. On the other hand, you can already see a controversial pick in Seider absolutely blow the doors off the league already

 

[tucker3434]

People underestimate the amount of luck required for a successful rebuild. Sometimes, it boils down to a draft lottery.

If anyone can point out obvious errors in either drafting or handling of young players/prospects, okay. But if not, 3-4 years isn’t enough time to make the call.

 

[Stickpucker]

I mean Yzerman inherited Hedman and Stamkos and fluked out on grabbing a couple superstars with late picks in Kucherov and Point. While the Vasilevski pick was great, he also thought Slater Koekkok had more potential, so it goes to show how much of a role luck has when drafting.

Did Yzermans make the Druion for Sergachevs trade? That was a nice fleecing by the gm.

Maybe he needs his buddy Bergevin back in the league?

 

[Stickpucker]

People underestimate the amount of luck required for a successful rebuild. Sometimes, it boils down to a draft lottery.

If anyone can point out obvious errors in either drafting or handling of young players/prospects, okay. But if not, 3-4 years isn’t enough time to make the call.

Exactly imagine how NJ would look without winning those lotteries.

Imagine NY if Panarin and Fox didn't force their ways there.

Landing a generational goaler would be a big help. Detriot would look muches better with a young Vasilvesky backstopping them instead of what they been getting (poop in their hands)

 

[Frank Drebin]

Did Yzermans make the Druion for Sergachevs trade? That was a nice fleecing by the gm.

Maybe he needs his buddy Bergevin back in the league?

Sergachev is probably the 7th best player on those cup winning teams behind vasi, point, stamkos, Kucherov, McDonough, palat. Yes it was a good trade for Yzerman but it didn't win them the cup.

Exactly imagine how NJ would look without winning those lotteries.

Imagine NY if Panarin and Fox didn't force their ways there.

Landing a generational goaler would be a big help. Detriot would look muches better with a young Vasilvesky backstopping them instead of what they been getting (poop in their hands)

Yzerman drafted both vasi and cossa. Brilliance on both?

 

[StreetHawk]

People underestimate the amount of luck required for a successful rebuild. Sometimes, it boils down to a draft lottery.

If anyone can point out obvious errors in either drafting or handling of young players/prospects, okay. But if not, 3-4 years isn’t enough time to make the call.

Bostons best guys were non top 15 picks up front. But without a high end scorer it’s hard to compete. Pasta, Marchand, Bergeron. Best first rounder they have is McAvoy.

Are Larkin and Raymond realistically their best offensive guys moving forward? Is that going to be enough? It’s hard to convince guys to sign with bad teams. Probably gave up either too much term or cap to the guys they got last summer but had to move the Program along. Need better signings this summer if they can convince guys that the light at the end of the tunnel is near.

 

[flying squirrel]

Some are saying Yzerman's time with Lightning was overrated are being harsh. I mentioned in one of my earlier post that Yzerman started with a better deck with Lightning, and it would take him more time to get Detroit right. My guess, he needs 2-3 more years and if Detroit is not making some playoff noise by then. It's probably not going to happen unfortunately.

It took Yzerman & the Lightning organization 5-6 years of roster building to get the Lightning that awesome depth that started one of the better runs during modern era (6 ECG's, 4 CF's. and 2 "Cups" in 8 yrs span). Even with al that, it took great trades to fill holes. Sure Yzerman had some great support but any successful organization usually has this. Yzerman was HUGE for us, period! He drafted some gems, made some awesome trades, and was a crucial part to what was to come for Lightning. Only knock about Yzerman's team with Lightning and I agree with what someone else said earlier in this thread. Was Yzerman's club were to easily pushed around come playoff time. Lightning finally got over that grit hump when they added grit to the lineup (Started with Maroon). If Yzerman is repeating a soft roaster in Detroit, that could be a problem. Who knows, I'm not close enough to Detroit's roaster to know what they're exactly working with.

I thank Yzerman for what he did for Lightning and its criminal his name isn't on the Lightning's recent "Cup" wins. I like Detroit and would like to see them give Yzerman 2-3 more yrs to see if he can finish filling the holes. We''ll see, it's tough in certain markets. The pressure is intense and sometimes can be a problem itself, Figured Yzerman would be able to hold that off considering who he is and his record. But....maybe not

 

[StreetHawk]

Yzerman joined TB in 2010. Had Stamkos and Hedman on the roster already. His best guy pre arrival in Detroit is Larkin. There is a big drop off afterLarkin to the next pre Yzerman arrival
Red wing.

 

[tucker3434]

Bostons best guys were non top 15 picks up front. But without a high end scorer it’s hard to compete. Pasta, Marchand, Bergeron. Best first rounder they have is McAvoy.

Are Larkin and Raymond realistically their best offensive guys moving forward? Is that going to be enough? It’s hard to convince guys to sign with bad teams. Probably gave up either too much term or cap to the guys they got last summer but had to move the Program along. Need better signings this summer if they can convince guys that the light at the end of the tunnel is near.

That Boston’s best guys were available when Boston was picking is also lucky. What if the Islanders had taken Marchand over Robin Figren?

And no, it’s not, but that’s not Yzerman’s fault. Where would one have come from? Maybe they win the next lottery and that resolves itself.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Truths

-Zero top 3 picks in decades
-Have four 1st rd picks during next two drafts
-Have the 2nd best prospect pool in the league
-Have a boatload of cap space
-Have a strong tradition of winning and great ownership
- Have a franchise 21 year old dman in place

Still lots of holes no doubt but the plan is going quite well.

Imagine Detroit finally gets lotto luck and wins Bedard?

Case closed

 

[Pavels Dog]

Are Larkin and Raymond realistically their best offensive guys moving forward? Is that going to be enough?

Realistically they will target high-end forwards in multiple ways (draft, trade, UFA) the coming years.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Yzerman joined TB in 2010. Had Stamkos and Hedman on the roster already. His best guy pre arrival in Detroit is Larkin. There is a big drop off afterLarkin to the next pre Yzerman arrival
Red wing.

As of this past trade deadline with shipping off Bertuzzi and Hronek, Larkin is the only remaining Red Wing since Yzerman took over. The entire roster has been turned over in less than 4 years

 

[StreetHawk]

As of this past trade deadline with shipping off Bertuzzi and Hronek, Larkin is the only remaining Red Wing since Yzerman took over. The entire roster has been turned over in less than 4 years

Yzerman had to decide whether the guys who would be into their ufa years like Mantha, Larkin, Bertuzzi etc were worth keeping around with his picks. He ended up moving all but Larkin. So he’s now depending on a lot of young guys and or looking at the market to add veterans.

Now comes the hard part of turning it around. One thing to sell off parts. Now it’s putting the right pieces together.

 

[MessierII]

Some are saying Yzerman's time with Lightning was overrated are being harsh. I mentioned in one of my earlier post that Yzerman started with a better deck with Lightning, and it would take him more time to get Detroit right. My guess, he needs 2-3 more years and if Detroit is not making some playoff noise by then. It's probably not going to happen unfortunately.

It took Yzerman & the Lightning organization 5-6 years of roster building to get the Lightning that awesome depth that started one of the better runs during modern era (6 ECG's, 4 CF's. and 2 "Cups" in 8 yrs span). Even with al that, it took great trades to fill holes. Sure Yzerman had some great support but any successful organization usually has this. Yzerman was HUGE for us, period! He drafted some gems, made some awesome trades, and was a crucial part to what was to come for Lightning. Only knock about Yzerman's team with Lightning and I agree with what someone else said earlier in this thread. Was Yzerman's club were to easily pushed around come playoff time. Lightning finally got over that grit hump when they added grit to the lineup (Started with Maroon). If Yzerman is repeating a soft roaster in Detroit, that could be a problem. Who knows, I'm not close enough to Detroit's roaster to know what they're exactly working with.

I thank Yzerman for what he did for Lightning and its criminal his name isn't on the Lightning's recent "Cup" wins. I like Detroit and would like to see them give Yzerman 2-3 more yrs to see if he can finish filling the holes. We''ll see, it's tough in certain markets. The pressure is intense and sometimes can be a problem itself, Figured Yzerman would be able to hold that off considering who he is and his record. But....maybe not

Obviously he did a great job with Tampa it’s just it’s pretty easy to do a great job when your starting point is Stamkos and Hedman. The two hardest pieces to get were already in the organization.

 

[Breakers]

Signing trash like Chiarot is highly suspect for an all world GM.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

"HAH, the Lightning may have just won two Cups and made another finals appearance, but what about the Callahan signing? HAHAH cope and seethe, hahahaha mald, Yzerbad"

- What people obsessing over the Chiarot signing sound like

 

[wetcoast]

the Vrana trade looks really bad atm. he might have some issues, but he can score goals at the NHL level

Yes it looks bad but Vranan probably just wasn't going to pan out in detroit and the change of scenery helped him alot.

The biggest issue with Detroit is that they desperately need to upgrade their center ice position.

 

[SMP17]

Who's being lazy? If they don't sign those three players they're a worse team, period. This is not complicated.



This draft has 4 outstanding players to choose from. You don't even have to win the lottery. You just need to give yourself a shot to get one of the 4. And if you don't you might still get someone like Benson or Smith.

See previous season with plugs in their spots, not 20 points worse. You are now being grouped into the same crowd, lazy. Read previous posts on here to further comprehend…not going to reiterate the same thing 500 times since it seems this is very hard for you.

 

[Fantomas]

See previous season with plugs in their spots, not 20 points worse. You are now being grouped into the same crowd, lazy. Read previous posts on here to further comprehend…not going to reiterate the same thing 500 times since it seems this is very hard for you.

Nothing lazier than bad reading comprehension. Culprit: you.

This is a deep draft with four outstanding players. You tank, you give yourself a shot to get them. You fail to get them, you get sweet consolation prizes.

The Red Wings are getting neither.

And before I get labeled a hater, I like the Red Wings. Which is why I'm annoyed by their bad decisions.

 

[newfy]

Nothing lazier than bad reading comprehension. Culprit: you.

This is a deep draft with four outstanding players. You tank, you give yourself a shot to get them. You fail to get them, you get sweet consolation prizes.

The Red Wings are getting neither.

And before I get labeled a hater, I like the Red Wings. Which is why I'm annoyed by their bad decisions.

Last I checked there was still a lottery to be had, so how you already know this is pretty interesting.

The wings were too good without additions to be bottom 4 this year. You also have no clue who the sweet consolation prizes are going to be in a deep draft where the wings will have 2 picks in the top 15-20

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

I mean Yzerman inherited Hedman and Stamkos and fluked out on grabbing a couple superstars with late picks in Kucherov and Point.

Kucherov was undervalued because of concerns with him being a Russian. Point was someone Yzerman actually specifically traded up to in order to draft in the 3rd round. In the case of Kucherov at least you can probably argue that what makes up an undervalued asset changes all the time and what he was able to take advantage of in 2011 isn't something he can take advantage of now, but you can't really write off Point as just "fluking out" when it was clearly someone he and the scouts had zeroed in on wanting to draft when they did. I'm sure they didn't expect what he's turned into but they clearly saw something they liked.

 

[Fantomas]

Who are these "half his top picks" he should have chosen someone else with when one is already a #1D, one just put up 56pts as a 19yo and the others haven't even reached the NHL yet?


As has been shown so well, its best to continually lose and get blown out just to get a better draft pick.
It worked for them in 2018... oh wait

It worked for them in 2019.. oh wait

It worked for them in 2020.. oh wait

It worked for them in 2021... oh wait

Not all drafts are equal. Some are special.

I've already explained all of this. Seems I can't help you and some of your logically-challenged friends.

2 picks in the top 15-20

Okay, enjoy those