When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[BB88]

He’s been the GM since 2019
Edmonton was in the bottom of the league in 2006 or 2007 I believe (somebody can fact check for me)

Took them 10 years to get back into the playoffs and be relevant. Also helped they got some luck in drafting McDavid.


Rebuilds take time. Get over it, just because you’re used to finishing quickly doesn’t mean that’s how a franchise’s roster and prospect pool is rebuilt in the same timely fashion.

Yes because everyone knows Edmonton is the model franchise to look up to and compare every rebuild…..

Detroit started drafting in the top10 in 2017 and had Larkin, their 1C in the system and are still nowhere to be seen but yes great work by them

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yes because everyone knows Edmonton is the model franchise to look up to and compare every rebuild…..

Detroit started drafting in the top10 in 2017 and had Larkin, their 1C in the system and are still nowhere to be seen but yes great work by them

Why are you talking 2017 in the "let's hate on yzerman" thread?

 

[nbwingsfan]

So you’ve decided to jump full on to fantasy land and if if if plan.

Maybe you should just sell Larkin, he’s 28y already and the way you are doing it you’ve wasted his entire prime in this rebuild and will need to look for another 1C….



Again I say cute if you think you are in any way build the same way as those teams.

You seriously have to even ask with how Eichel- Marchessault- Stone played?

Both Eichel& Marchessault played at Conn Smythe level and RoR won Selke& Conn Smythe during Blues run & Detroit isn’t build even close to the same as them

Of course the Wings aren’t built the same. Because all of their best players/prospects are 23 and under and outside of 3 aren’t even on the damn yet

You do realize that YOU would have been called crazy if you picked Pastrnak to be a top 10 forward when he was drafted… and then he became one …

You literally writing off forwards who are 22 years and under… including one who was drafted 4th overall, is above where Pastrnak was at the same age.

Why are you talking 2017 in the "let's hate on yzerman" thread?

Because he’s starting to realize how poor his argument is and is wildly reaching at this point.

 

[Dotter]

I'll ask.. do you feel Raymond will be at a Panarin/Kucherov/Pasta/Matthews/McD/Drai/MacK/Stevie Y/Fedorov tier at some point in his Red Wing's career?

No. Probably more inline with Henrik Zetterberg level. A player you can build a cup team around. Not elite like McDavid tho-

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

A new GM probably wouldn't have a new strategic vision but could probably be better tactically at all of the things that a GM does -- starting by maybe signing good players in UFA to reasonable contracts instead of bad ones to bad contracts!

I also don't see how a team that signs Kane and Tarasenko to a combined $10m in the offseason is doing anything other than trying to compete this year.

Kane and Tank on short term deals don't inhibit the Wings going forward. SY didn't think the young kids were ready, so hopefully that changes next year.

 

[Dotter]

When a GM lands both of Seider at #6 and Raymond at #4 who are some of the best in their respective draft, then he just bought himself an additional 4 years.

Those two picks alone proves Yzerman is one of the best GMs in the league. It's clear to anyone paying attention that yzerman isn't shooting for short term mid success. He's trying to build another dynasty. That takes time.

His prospect pool looks pretty dam deep. Only needs to hit on a few key players. I think Cossa is going to be one of those key players.

 

[Czechboy]

No. Probably more inline with Henrik Zetterberg level. A player you can build a cup team around. Not elite like McDavid tho-

Perfect comparison.. totally agree

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

The fact that they haven't been able to even get cups of coffee despite the NHL club severely lacking talent is not a good sign, especially considering the volume of picks they've had in that time frframe.

Feels weird to defend the DRW, but SY and the organization aren't known for giving guys a cup of coffee. IMO, the 2019/20 ish guys should be ready for the roster, and there will be spots available next year.

Just one of those cases IMO where it's OK to be optimistic, that is what being a fan is all about.

 

[Oddbob]

1/3 of the cap on tarasenko chiarot Holl compher kane is beyond ass

2 years and 1 year left on all of those. WOW so long.

Pietrangelo is a heck of a D man too. There’s a reason why both St. Louis and Vegas win Cups with him as their anchor. Yzerman has not been able to bring in players at the elite level of Eichel and Pietrangelo. Vegas was able to get both those guys via trade and free agency. Vegas added Stone via trade too. I just don’t see that level of elite player on Detroit.

Weird how a rebuilding team isn't adding Pietrangelo or Eichel!

 

[Oddbob]

Of course Seider has more points, Hedman's career started off very slowly. That's why it's a nonsensical comparison. Hedman was a very slow starter who kept making consistently obvious big improvements until he hit his prime. Seider on the other hand started off very well and it's unclear how much he's actually improved if at all from his rookie year. He's tracking closer to Ivan Provorov than Hedman. Another guy that everyone assumed would just keep improving because he was young but it never happened.

Hedman started out extremely slow but broke through in his age 23 year after a couple seasons. Seider (like Myers) had a truly amazing rookie year and won the Calder, but (also like Myers) has taken significant strides back in the two years since.

As for the cap, Yzerman had to attach a second to move Walman (Yzerman signing) and give away Fabbri for free (Yzerman signing) in order to sign Raymond and Seider this summer. Add that to $3.4M Holl (Yzerman signing) and $2M Gustafsson (Yzerman signing) alternating in the press box and $3.6M Husso (Yzerman signing) playing in Grand Rapids. They're capped out this year, trying to compete this year, and there are a lot of extremely bad contracts Yzerman himself has signed hindering them from competing this year.

Back to back people saying Seider of course outscored Hedman only because he had a slow start. Like Hedman is the only player that can improve, while Seider can't.

Seider hasn't dropped off at all from his first season, except by some false HF mainboards narrative.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Back to back people saying Seider of course outscored Hedman only because he had a slow start. Like Hedman is the only player that can improve, while Seider can't.

Seider hasn't dropped off at all from his first season, except by some false HF mainboards narrative.

Right Seider hasn’t dropped off except for both his point production and advanced stats declining. What evidence do have for him improving?

Of course players besides Hedman can improve. The reason you will get pushback on this ridiculous comparison is because Seider entered the NHL as a solid player who won the Calder. Hedman entered the NHL as an inconsistent player not close to a Calder who steadily improved each season. You are comparing Seider to Hedman as wish fulfillment when their careers have been nothing alike so far.

 

[Frobbo]

No. Probably more inline with Henrik Zetterberg level. A player you can build a cup team around. Not elite like McDavid tho-

Still need Datsyuk...

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Seider has very clearly been put on a leash by Lalonde. The swagger from his first season has been completely neutered.

 

[Oddbob]

Right Seider hasn’t dropped off except for both his point production and advanced stats declining. What evidence do have for him improving?

Of course players besides Hedman can improve. The reason you will get pushback on this ridiculous comparison is because Seider entered the NHL as a solid player who won the Calder. Hedman entered the NHL as an inconsistent player not close to a Calder who steadily improved each season. You are comparing Seider to Hedman as wish fulfillment when their careers have been nothing alike so far.

Didn't say improving, just that he isn't dropping at all. He has been used much harder against top line competition since his rookie season and still put up similar stats. He also was only 10 pts shy of of his career high last year with more often than not 2nd pp duties. With 1st pp duties all season last year I have no problem believing he hits 50 pts last year.

You and others are comparing him to players like Myers when Myers was never all that good, other than his 1 40 pt season. Seider is 3 for 3 at 40 pts while last year having among the hardest matchups in the whole league. You are also just stat watching and using lame advanced stats which plenty of the time tell you very little how a player is doing.

 

[Dotter]

Trigger Warning-

ChatGPT predicts, based on current trends, Detroit Red Wings will be a top 5 team in the NHL in 2027. And top 3 team in the NHL by 2029.

ChatGPT said:

Detroit Red Wings are well-positioned to dominate by 2029 [ given continued development and smart management decisions ]

There you go folks, AI is predicting DRWs will dominate the NHL by 2029 if trends continue.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

I searched for a thread on Elmer Soderblom but couldn’t find anything. Can any Wings fans weigh in on his development?

He was pacing for 20 goals and was getting a lot of buzz before being sent down to GR. Has his progress stalled? Case of a big man just needing more time to cook?

 

[Dotter]

I searched for a thread on Elmer Soderblom but couldn’t find anything. Can any Wings fans weigh in on his development?

He was pacing for 20 goals and was getting a lot of buzz before being sent down to GR. Has his progress stalled? Case of a big man just needing more time to cook?

Seems he is getting the Berggren treatment. Elmer's hands are slick and his skating has improved, despite the fact he never was considered a poor skater for his size. In pre season it seemed like he was weak on his skates. He falls easily when he gets bumped. I think that is normal for taller players. I don't know if he'll ever be a regular NHLer, but development is still needed.

I'd argue he needs to get stronger. Next season his fate will be decided.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I searched for a thread on Elmer Soderblom but couldn’t find anything. Can any Wings fans weigh in on his development?

He was pacing for 20 goals and was getting a lot of buzz before being sent down to GR. Has his progress stalled? Case of a big man just needing more time to cook?

He was pretty bad last season in the AHL by all accords.

Wasn’t great this pre season either.

Not sure he has the effort level to be a full time NHL player

 

[newfy]

Why do Stevie Y picks have a higher chance than non Stevie Y picks?

Look at your roster today, do you like the free agent signings?

Based on what? I read a lot in the prospects section. I'd say it is around 5 to 7...

Philly, Buffalo, SJ, Chicago, Columbus and Anaheim routinely come up in these arguments. Philly has Michkov. Chicago has Bedard. Seider and Raymond are no longer considered prospects. FTR.. Seider is 23 so not sure about his deployment as a 21 year old last season. Raymond is also 22 so not sure about his 20 year old season. Are you referring to 2 years ago? And I said I have Seider in 'Makar/Hughes' territory so not sure why you think I'm not accounting for improvement there. I think Raymoind is awesome but I do think Michkov and Bedard will be better than him. To continue an argument above... he is the Larkin to their Eichel.

Excluding the fact that Yzerman has a history of being above average at drafting in later rounds, his picks have a higher chance just by the numbers. Detroit was rebuilding and has a bunch of extra 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks than most teams in the league. Those guys are later picks so they'll take a bit, but the odds of Detroit hitting on some of them are higher just due to the number of them.

Looking at the roster today, I like some of the signings and I dislike some. The Copp signing was loved universally and now he's been extremely meh, didn't like the Holl signing from day one. On the other hand, Chiarot, Compher and especially Kane have been pretty good.

They're pretty much considered top 3 anywhere that people who actually follow prospects rank prospects. You might find some other lists where they're closer to 5 on shittier sites like Bleacher report, but the wings are consistently ranked very high. I get you are in here shitting on the wings but you're still ranking them at 5 lol kinda shows they're good no?

 

[norrisnick]

I searched for a thread on Elmer Soderblom but couldn’t find anything. Can any Wings fans weigh in on his development?

He was pacing for 20 goals and was getting a lot of buzz before being sent down to GR. Has his progress stalled? Case of a big man just needing more time to cook?

He was pacing for 12-ish points when he got sent down. He got called back up later in the year due to injuries and had a nice string of games (6pts in 8 games) before getting sent back down again injured players returning. His production was over two stints with the big club.

What Soderblom is is a 6'8" 250lb semi-skilled winger. The only element of his size that he uses is his reach. He's not remotely physical. Can he score 20/20? Maybe. Can he become more? Only if he wants to. But history of the NHL is littered with very large bodies that don't play the way their coaches want them to play, ie physically.

 

[Czechboy]

Trigger Warning-

ChatGPT predicts, based on current trends, Detroit Red Wings will be a top 5 team in the NHL in 2027. And top 3 team in the NHL by 2029.



There you go folks, AI is predicting DRWs will dominate the NHL by 2029 if trends continue.

It honestly doesn't seem that unrealistic.. 2029 is my guess too. Will need some luck though.

Excluding the fact that Yzerman has a history of being above average at drafting in later rounds, his picks have a higher chance just by the numbers. Detroit was rebuilding and has a bunch of extra 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks than most teams in the league. Those guys are later picks so they'll take a bit, but the odds of Detroit hitting on some of them are higher just due to the number of them.

Looking at the roster today, I like some of the signings and I dislike some. The Copp signing was loved universally and now he's been extremely meh, didn't like the Holl signing from day one. On the other hand, Chiarot, Compher and especially Kane have been pretty good.

They're pretty much considered top 3 anywhere that people who actually follow prospects rank prospects. You might find some other lists where they're closer to 5 on shittier sites like Bleacher report, but the wings are consistently ranked very high. I get you are in here shitting on the wings but you're still ranking them at 5 lol kinda shows they're good no?

That's because I'm not shitting on the wings.

 

[newfy]

That's because I'm not shitting on the wings.

When this is the response to a post that kinda shuts down your line of thinking, it makes me think you were, even if it was subtle or you didn't even realise it.

 

[Oddbob]

I searched for a thread on Elmer Soderblom but couldn’t find anything. Can any Wings fans weigh in on his development?

He was pacing for 20 goals and was getting a lot of buzz before being sent down to GR. Has his progress stalled? Case of a big man just needing more time to cook?

He skates very well for a 6'8" guy and has pretty good hands with the puck. There is definitely NHL skill there, his issue is he plays physically like a 6'0" guy and can be knocked off the puck way too easy and he needs lots of work on his defensive game.

I still think he will eventually play a good amount of games at the NHL level with whoever has him at that point. If he just played a little tougher, I think he would be on our team right now. He makes lots of skill plays that stand out in the offensive zone.

 

[Boxscore]

Honestly, give it 2 more years, then it will begin. One of the goalies absolutely needs to turn into a monster in the NHL and the Seider/Edvinsson combo meal need to end up as dominant as promised. We know Raymond is a star but the other young forwards need to pan out as well.

 

[Zarzh]

Excluding the fact that Yzerman has a history of being above average at drafting in later rounds, his picks have a higher chance just by the numbers. Detroit was rebuilding and has a bunch of extra 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks than most teams in the league. Those guys are later picks so they'll take a bit, but the odds of Detroit hitting on some of them are higher just due to the number of them.

Looking at the roster today, I like some of the signings and I dislike some. The Copp signing was loved universally and now he's been extremely meh, didn't like the Holl signing from day one. On the other hand, Chiarot, Compher and especially Kane have been pretty good.

They're pretty much considered top 3 anywhere that people who actually follow prospects rank prospects. You might find some other lists where they're closer to 5 on shittier sites like Bleacher report, but the wings are consistently ranked very high. I get you are in here shitting on the wings but you're still ranking them at 5 lol kinda shows they're good no?

Yzerman has been good at identifying overagers and picking players who score a lot and should never have been available like Point and Kucherov. He's among the worst in the league at making a normal 2nd round pick which is the replicable part of drafting.