When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[norrisnick]

sometimes I wonder if we're gonna be sitting here in 2050 with people still blaming Ken Holland for the Wings not winning a Cup

Without Holland they might win in 2047... maybe even 2046. But there is no denying that there was at least a 3 year hole of horseshit that Yzerman has had to build the Wings out of just to get to mediocre.

 

[nbwingsfan]

The Yzerman truthers absolutely are blinded by his success as a player, and can't differentiate the fact that Steve Yzerman's work as a GM has nothing to do with his playing career.

He's not infallible, and it's time to start asking questions. Just about any other GM in hockey could have taken over in 2019, and the Red Wings would probably be right where they are right now.

Yzerman wasn't hired in Detroit to be average, he was brought back to be special. And the fact that his team is about to miss the playoffs again (this year mostly thanks to a ridiculous self implosion that I still can't fathom) isn't good enough. This is the Red Wings, not the Sabres or Blue Jackets or Senators where a random playoff appearance per decade is the standard.



100%. You'll still have the "trust the Yzerplan!!" and the "oh you think you know more than the CAPTAIN?!??" sycophants.

Yes, Detroit getting boned in the Draft Lottery was absurd and a big setback. But that's not the only way to acquire top players. Instead, Yzerman seems hell-bent on creating the most mid-roster possible. And if it's not his goal to create the most dominant team possible, then what was he brought back for? Because it sure wasn't to still not be in the playoffs by 2024 and to have only 2 draft picks since 2019 as regular NHL players.

If by next season there’s not a clear playoff team he starts to get serious questioned.

 

[LevelingSolo]

Holland hasn't been the GM since 18-19, why is he still getting blamed lol

 

[Raistlin]

Yzerplan has lost its lustre for me. He's not a bad GM, but he's been nothing special. Instead of hitting homeruns, hes been getting doubles. Its taken too long to be competitive, and the way the team folded down the stretch run again is a serious cause for concern. The east is nothing special this year, and they are still driven by one player and no one else can pick up the slack.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

The Yzerman truthers absolutely are blinded by his success as a player, and can't differentiate the fact that Steve Yzerman's work as a GM has nothing to do with his playing career.

He's not infallible, and it's time to start asking questions. Just about any other GM in hockey could have taken over in 2019, and the Red Wings would probably be right where they are right now.

Yzerman wasn't hired in Detroit to be average, he was brought back to be special. And the fact that his team is about to miss the playoffs again (this year mostly thanks to a ridiculous self implosion that I still can't fathom) isn't good enough. This is the Red Wings, not the Sabres or Blue Jackets or Senators where a random playoff appearance per decade is the standard.



100%. You'll still have the "trust the Yzerplan!!" and the "oh you think you know more than the CAPTAIN?!??" sycophants.

Yes, Detroit getting boned in the Draft Lottery was absurd and a big setback. But that's not the only way to acquire top players. Instead, Yzerman seems hell-bent on creating the most mid-roster possible. And if it's not his goal to create the most dominant team possible, then what was he brought back for? Because it sure wasn't to still not be in the playoffs by 2024 and to have only 2 draft picks since 2019 as regular NHL players.

Yzerman inherited a prospect pool of;

Zadina
Rasmussen
Veleno
Cholowski

He inherited Stamkos and Hedman when he came to Tampa Bay. Elite talent at C and D. That will set a franchise up. It's no wonder that when he was able to insulate that roster after a few seasons they went to the 2015 Cup Final.

His first pick in Detroit, Seider, is already a Calder Trophy winner at age 20. Raymond is currently blossoming into a top line play driver in front of our eyes. The rest are all too young to reasonably be making an impact.

The patience they've had with their top prospects is definitely going to get them better, quicker. They had a top 3 prospect pool in the entire NHL this past offseason. No regressions have been reported this season and that is HUGE because statistically the odds are against most teams in that regard. Edvinsson and Kasper has injuries and needed time to get back to speed and they sure did.

I agree with some criticisms about his signings and who he's filled the roster with. However it's not all bad and I completely disagree that he's worn out his (re)welcoming. Yes, we all want playoffs. However we aren't the Buffalo Sabres, who seemingly have no direction yet all of the talent in the world at their disposal.

There are overzealous people on both sides of the Yzerman coin, like any other GM would have. This team, had they not lost their best player at the tail end of a fairly convincing winning streak, would be "pretending" their way into a wildcard spot handily. Every year there are those teams. Last year it was Seattle. But the great thing is, that so many top picks are yet to join the big squad. The impact they'll make will "speed up" this timeframe that Yzerman has been waiting on.

Next year, even many Wings fans I've seen are saying that it's a "playoffs or bust" kind of year. We'll have to see how he plays his cards in the offseason.

 

[norrisnick]

I think way too many people just didn't have an understanding of what Yzerman's plan is/was. This is the plan. Incremental improvements. Filling holes while waiting for kids to get ready. It's frustratingly slow, but unless phenoms fall in your lap, that's how long it takes.

 

[Bank Shot]

Yzerman inherited a prospect pool of;

Zadina
Rasmussen
Veleno
Cholowski

He inherited Stamkos and Hedman when he came to Tampa Bay. Elite talent at C and D. That will set a franchise up. It's no wonder that when he was able to insulate that roster after a few seasons they went to the 2015 Cup Final.

His first pick in Detroit, Seider, is already a Calder Trophy winner at age 20. Raymond is currently blossoming into a top line play driver in front of our eyes. The rest are all too young to reasonably be making an impact.

The patience they've had with their top prospects is definitely going to get them better, quicker. They had a top 3 prospect pool in the entire NHL this past offseason. No regressions have been reported this season and that is HUGE because statistically the odds are against most teams in that regard. Edvinsson and Kasper has injuries and needed time to get back to speed and they sure did.

I agree with some criticisms about his signings and who he's filled the roster with. However it's not all bad and I completely disagree that he's worn out his (re)welcoming. Yes, we all want playoffs. However we aren't the Buffalo Sabres, who seemingly have no direction yet all of the talent in the world at their disposal.

There are overzealous people on both sides of the Yzerman coin, like any other GM would have. This team, had they not lost their best player at the tail end of a fairly convincing winning streak, would be "pretending" their way into a wildcard spot handily. Every year there are those teams. Last year it was Seattle. But the great thing is, that so many top picks are yet to join the big squad. The impact they'll make will "speed up" this timeframe that Yzerman has been waiting on.

Next year, even many Wings fans I've seen are saying that it's a "playoffs or bust" kind of year. We'll have to see how he plays his cards in the offseason.

The thing is Buffalo has better underlying numbers than the Wings. Red Wings are buoyed by having the second highest shooting % in the league 5v5. They are a mirage to be as high as they are in the standings.

Buffalo also have more young core players. Its more likely than not that they surpass the Wings next season. Same with New Jersey. I take both of those rosters over the Wings. Both of those teams have more young roster players that could take a step forward next season.

You can talk about prospect pools, but the Wings only have one roster defenceman under the age of 28. Raymond is the only forward on the roster that likely has any potential to improve. Every one else is basically 27-28+.

I don't see a team that is on the verge of turning the corner.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I hope Kane gets out of that hell hole

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I think way too many people just didn't have an understanding of what Yzerman's plan is/was. This is the plan. Incremental improvements. Filling holes while waiting for kids to get ready. It's frustratingly slow, but unless phenoms fall in your lap, that's how long it takes.

So the yzerplan is twenty years long?

 

[wunderpanda]

So the yzerplan is twenty years long?

plan might be to hire fedorov. he tricked people into thinking yzerman was a good player, may trick people into thinking yzerman is a competent gm.

 

[BB88]

So the yzerplan is twenty years long?

Larkin will be out of his prime before their plan is finished

 

[BB88]

Yzerman inherited a prospect pool of;

Zadina
Rasmussen
Veleno
Cholowski

He inherited Stamkos and Hedman when he came to Tampa Bay. Elite talent at C and D. That will set a franchise up. It's no wonder that when he was able to insulate that roster after a few seasons they went to the 2015 Cup Final.

His first pick in Detroit, Seider, is already a Calder Trophy winner at age 20. Raymond is currently blossoming into a top line play driver in front of our eyes. The rest are all too young to reasonably be making an impact.

The patience they've had with their top prospects is definitely going to get them better, quicker. They had a top 3 prospect pool in the entire NHL this past offseason. No regressions have been reported this season and that is HUGE because statistically the odds are against most teams in that regard. Edvinsson and Kasper has injuries and needed time to get back to speed and they sure did.

I agree with some criticisms about his signings and who he's filled the roster with. However it's not all bad and I completely disagree that he's worn out his (re)welcoming. Yes, we all want playoffs. However we aren't the Buffalo Sabres, who seemingly have no direction yet all of the talent in the world at their disposal.

There are overzealous people on both sides of the Yzerman coin, like any other GM would have. This team, had they not lost their best player at the tail end of a fairly convincing winning streak, would be "pretending" their way into a wildcard spot handily. Every year there are those teams. Last year it was Seattle. But the great thing is, that so many top picks are yet to join the big squad. The impact they'll make will "speed up" this timeframe that Yzerman has been waiting on.

Next year, even many Wings fans I've seen are saying that it's a "playoffs or bust" kind of year. We'll have to see how he plays his cards in the offseason.

Absolutely insane the amount of time he gets just to get them into the playoffs..

I don’t know why I’d bet on them over Buffalo moving forward& they didn’t have a top3 prospect pool last summer. Detroit doesn’t have that true franchise forward and I don’t see that changing anytime soon, can’t be like that in the East

 

[Peasy]

Said it before and I said it again, he's realizing how much more difficult it is gming a team without a stud d/c combo. Also, no more tax and nice weather advantage either.

 

[Pavels Dog]

So the yzerplan is twenty years long?

I mean most people seem to prefer the Buffalo rebuild and that’s coming up on 15+ years..

Yzerplan has lost its lustre for me. He's not a bad GM, but he's been nothing special. Instead of hitting homeruns, hes been getting doubles. Its taken too long to be competitive, and the way the team folded down the stretch run again is a serious cause for concern. The east is nothing special this year, and they are still driven by one player and no one else can pick up the slack.

Problem for these arguments is similar things go for Sabres, Sens, Devils etc. as well. All of whom people thought would be way ahead Detroit this season. I’d argue Detroit’s actually where they SHOULD be, fighting for a wildcard. Even as they likely end up missing they’re playing meaningful games at this point of the season which was the realistic goal all along. No one, and I mean literally not a single soul, had them in a playoff spot going into this season and the majority didn’t have them anywhere near this close.

 

[BB88]

I mean most people seem to prefer the Buffalo rebuild and that’s coming up on 15+ years..

Yeah nobody has ever critized them….

Outside of being the common laughing stock around the league

On the other hand Detroits plan has been constantly praised in media with zero results, which is ridiculous. Got the job in 2019, had Larkin their 1C already in the building and this is the best they got with the ”best Gm in the league”

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yeah nobody has ever critized them….

Outside of being the common laughing stock around the league

Detroits plan has been constantly praised in media with zero results to show for it

I must have missed the ”praise” in the media. Offseason was full of criticism of Yzerman’s signings and projections that they’d finish 7th or 8th in the division and were far behind Sens and Sabres.

I’d also argue against ”zero results”. They are playing meaningful games in March/April for the first time in many years. Grand Rapids have become a wagon, with prospects leading the way. They’ve been able to attract FAs like Kane which was unreasonable to think a few years ago. These are the results we hoped for this season.

 

[BB88]

I must have missed the ”praise” in the media. Offseason was full of criticism of Yzerman’s signings and projections that they’d finish 7th or 8th in the division and were far behind Sens and Sabres.

I’d also argue against ”zero results”. They are playing meaningful games in March/April for the first time in many years. Grand Rapids have become a wagon, with prospects leading the way. They’ve been able to attract FAs like Kane which was unreasonable to think a few years ago. These are the results we hoped for this season.

They constantly get praised, while others doing rebuild and with less time are questioned and asked what on earth are they doing and whose jobs are on the line and whose should be on the line. You haven’t heard that with Y at all, just praising and getting benefit of doubt since he’s been there

& yes with zero results. They’ve been rebuilding since -17 and had Larkin already in the building prior to that. Being 9th in the East isn’t an achievement, especially this year.

They don’t look like contenders right now and I don’t see what’s going to make them contenders moving forward. They don’t have a single true franchise F, they’ve spent lot of assets on other players so finding and/drafting one will be a massive challenge as well. They’ve been building a very limited looking team.
But atleast that’s good news for every other Eastern team

 

[JimmyApples]

Has anyone seen Alex Debrincat when the games got “meaningful”?

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Holland hasn't been the GM since 18-19, why is he still getting blamed lol

Unfortunately, because too many Red Wings fans believe that it's sacrilege to admit that Yzerman isn't infallible as a GM. Same fans who will be saying "Trust the Yzerplan" if Detroit still hasn't gotten to the playoffs by 2026.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

I think way too many people just didn't have an understanding of what Yzerman's plan is/was. This is the plan. Incremental improvements. Filling holes while waiting for kids to get ready. It's frustratingly slow, but unless phenoms fall in your lap, that's how long it takes.

Why do these sports executives get infinity time to turn this product around when none of us would ever get this long to do so in our respective jobs?

Joe Schmoe with a wife and 3 kids and a mortgage gets fired if he misses one quarterly quota, but a sports executive doesn't have to produce any meaningful results for half a decade and has no pressure on him from up top to speed things up?

 

[NYRKing]

It’s a pretty mid team.

Detroit has suffered for a long time. Not a fan of the scorched earth rebuilds for most teams, but a lot of the acquisitions by SY are not great.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Has anyone seen Alex Debrincat when the games got “meaningful”?

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

I mean most people seem to prefer the Buffalo rebuild and that’s coming up on 15+ years..

Problem for these arguments is similar things go for Sabres, Sens, Devils etc. as well. All of whom people thought would be way ahead Detroit this season. I’d argue Detroit’s actually where they SHOULD be, fighting for a wildcard. Even as they likely end up missing they’re playing meaningful games at this point of the season which was the realistic goal all along. No one, and I mean literally not a single soul, had them in a playoff spot going into this season and the majority didn’t have them anywhere near this close.

That's loser talk.

"Oh nobody expected them to be in the playoffs"? I swear, I want to throw my shoe at the TV whenever I hear Lalonde spout that garbage. IT'S YOUR DAMN JOB TO GET THIS TEAM INTO THE PLAYOFFS.

When will these Red Wings fans sack up and start having a standard again? Going this long without a playoff appearance is unacceptable for a team that re-established the NHL standard of play and how an organization should be run.

The "Yzerplan" was never, and I repeat, NEVER supposed to take this long just to get back into the playoffs, which isn't even an accomplishment considering half of the League gets in.

Lalonde is fortunate that I'm not the GM of the team, because he'd have been fired the instant that he started with his "oh well we weren't supposed to be in the playoffs this year anyway" garbage. If Lalonde didn't come into this job with the mindset of "it's my job to get this team back to the playoffs and get the Red Wings back to where they belong at the top of the NHL", then I have no use for you.

That garbage belongs in Buffalo or Ottawa or Minnesota, where there is no historic standard of success and winning.

View attachment 843054

DeBrincat sadly plays like a scared kitten half of the time.

He needs a serious kick in the ass - he was brought to Detroit to be a 35-40+ goal scorer. Routinely going 10-15 games without a single point and making nearly $8 million AAV is inexcusable.

 

[izlez]

Time for a bump.

Unless a miracle happens, Detroit is going to be out of the playoffs for the 8th straight year.

Sorry, but Yzerman's seat needs to start getting warmer and warmer, because it was not supposed to take this long to get Detroit back into the postseason. Even worse, only two of his draft picks since taking over in 2019 are regular NHL players.

In before the usual "but but but look at what he inherited" posts. Other than Larkin, Rasmussen and Veleno, this team and coaching staff is 100% his doing.

Yzerman was brought back to Detroit to be special, not just another run-of-the-mill GM. And it hasn't happened. If we're sitting here next year and the exact same thing is happening, then his job needs to be in question. It's not sacrilege to say that the Yzerplan is way off course and way behind schedule.

No other general manager in a serious hockey market would get 6 years on the job and be viewed as acceptable that they're not in the playoffs yet.

I feel like I was the only person on this board not in love with Yzerman in TB/when he came to Detroit, and I think he is far from some god level GM, but my god people just don't get it.

It's like you answer your own question but still can't get it. The plan is to draft and develop. Despite HFBoards overall obsession with children, it is still way too early to know if that is working or not.

2019: Has a case for the 2nd best player from the draft. Other players still developing just fine.
2020: Has a case for the best player from the draft. Other players still developing just fine.
2021: 1st round draft pick has been developing nicely, but its still to early to know if he's good or not because he is being developed.

Like, feel free to use hindsight and build your dream-team from 1 player from every round of the draft since he took over and realize that team would still suck. Again, HFBoards overall obsession with children might think they might not suck, but they would be wrong

 

[dirtydanglez]

Has anyone seen Alex Debrincat when the games got “meaningful”?

its been a year and a half since he's played one. give him time to adjust.