When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[norrisnick]

He’s doing a fine job, not great but decent enough. At the end of the day he was left with a mess created by Ken Holland.

The drafts between 2015-2018 were awful.

Svechnikov over Eriksson Ek/Konecny/Boeser

Cholowski over staying at 16 and picking Chychrun

Rasmussen over Suzuki/Necas

Zadina over Q. Hughes

2019-2021 all look like great picks since Yzerman took over. Seider/Raymond/Edvinsson.

He has signed some bad contracts but my biggest criticism would be not trading Larkin as he will be in his 30’s and on the decline once the team will compete if they ever do, which they won’t if they don’t get that elusive franchise center.

They need a McDavid/Matthews/Mackinnon/Pettersson/Hughes/Barkov level center in the worst way. They needed to bottom out completely for a couple more years. They are the one team with the most to lose if they don’t win the lottery this year.

Only one of these guys have ever won anything (and that was with someone else winning the CS). Jury is still out on the rest on whether not having one is a deal breaker...

 

[Martinez]

We improved this season, what’s the problem?

 

[dirtydanglez]

We improved this season, what’s the problem?

no playoffs

 

[StreetHawk]

We improved this season, what’s the problem?

This season could have gone either way. But, the fact that Yzerman opted to sign some veterans to help the kids out (and these are the types of vets that bad teams can sign, overpaying on either term or dollars because guys don't want to be on bad teams and the Wings had not yet transitioned out of the bottom 3-5 teams). They got better. Question is how will they still make up the 15 points or so that they will need to make the PO as a WC?

Do they use some draft capital to get a player? If the Jets are looking at shaking up a roster that could potentially get a massive shakeup if they either miss the PO for a 2nd straight season or get eliminated in round 1, thus go 1 PO series win in 5 seasons with their key guys in their primes, they may opt to blow it up since they have 3 key UFAs in 2024 PLD, Helly and Scheiffle. Followed by Ehlers in 2025 and Connor in 2026. Does Yzerman go big and try to pry Connor out of Winnipeg with the extra draft capital?

Or will he take it slow and likely miss the PO in 2024 but not be in a top pick 5 position? End up around 9-16 in the draft. Really depends on the expectations the organization has over the next year or two.

If the Wings were going to move Larkin the best time to have done that was pre July 1, 2022 when he didn't have any trade protection. Like Trouba and the Jets, and what the Jets have to do this summer with PLD. Move the guy a year prior to UFA if you are going to do it.

 

[Djp]

10 mil in space with that to spend between their 3rd and 4th lines while needing a solid backup goalie and an entire 2nd pair. NJD keeping both hurts other areas of their lineup. Both Bratt and Meier will make north of 7.5 mil. In Meier’s case probably close to 9.

New Jersey Devils Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Also your definition of a deep prospect pool is incomplete. Why discount players picked before 20? Detroit has plenty of good ones there, too. Mazur, Buium, Johansson, Hanas, Wallinder, Soderblom, Cossa, Dower-Nilsson, Viro, Sebrango is a strong pool.

in developing a team you need more than just top 20 picks developing into good players.

so far detroit hasn’t seemed to develop much in that range. It usually takes 5 yrs post draft to see anything from them.

as for New Jersey…they have 2 high pick draft picks…ever heard of Nemec and Hughes? They replace their UFA D. They have $36M. Signing them for $17M still leaves them $19M. You can get a back up goalie for under $2M

 

[WarriorofTime]

I probably would have moved Larkin if this was going to be a non-playoff year rather than sign him to a deal where he can’t be traded without consent in his 30s when the team is theoretically in its competitive window. Especially if the idea is that he will be a “good 2nd line center” by that point but I think Yzerman chose the path least likely to have blowback.

 

[Pavels Dog]

in developing a team you need more than just top 20 picks developing into good players.

so far detroit hasn’t seemed to develop much in that range. It usually takes 5 yrs post draft to see anything from them.

Can you give some kind of bar, like name a team that HAS "developed much" in that range?

 

[The Red Line]

no playoffs

Literally nobody expected them to make the playoffs this season, though. The expectation was another step in the right direction, which is exactly what happened. Ottawa was the team most folks expected to make the playoffs and those two teams are basically even.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Can you give some kind of bar, like name a team that HAS "developed much" in that range?

Boston Carolina and Tampa?

I’d say they got lucky, it’s a huge part of why they’re so good.

 

[The Red Line]

I probably would have moved Larkin if this was going to be a non-playoff year rather than sign him to a deal where he can’t be traded without consent in his 30s when the team is theoretically in its competitive window. Especially if the idea is that he will be a “good 2nd line center” by that point but I think Yzerman chose the path least likely to have blowback.

I mean when the team is trying to get better it would be pretty idiotic to trade your best player for a marginally better shot at drafting a player they still won't get.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Boston Carolina and Tampa?

I’d say they got lucky, it’s a huge part of why they’re so good.

From the last 5 years? I don't really agree.

Yes, obviously if we're going back 10, 15, 20 years. But I think the point of that poster was to look at the last 4-5 drafts (last 4 drafts if strictly talking "Yzerplan").

 

[Reality Check]

Could be worse.

They could be Ottawa.

 

[Djp]

Can you give some kind of bar, like name a team that HAS "developed much" in that range?

There are many teams who drafted nhl players outside the top 20. Some of them might have been used as trade chips. They fill generally depth roles vs being all stars.

you need to have some success filling your 23 man with late 1st and 2nd day draft picks. Thesr pkayers sre grnerally your hotyom 6/ bottom 4.

Look at tampa and Boston. Cirelli and Point were not top 20 picks. Kucherov was not a 1st round pick.

in the era of a hard cap you are going to run into problems trying to survive solely on top 20 picks and signing UFAs.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Literally nobody expected them to make the playoffs this season, though. The expectation was another step in the right direction, which is exactly what happened. Ottawa was the team most folks expected to make the playoffs and those two teams are basically even.

wings were suppose to compete for the playoffs. they were the busiest team in free agency. they made progess but still underachieved. overal an ok season.
ottawa was suppose to make the playoffs but did choked.

 

[dekelikekocur]

wings were suppose to compete for the playoffs. they were the busiest team in free agency. they made progess but still underachieved. overal an ok season.
ottawa was suppose to make the playoffs but did choked.

Like hell they were. They signed some middling players as stop gaps to meet cap floor and have a full roster. In no way did they sign the type of talent that would have given them a serious shot at the playoffs, the fact that they were in the hunt for a while reflects on the team gelling and having semi decent goaltending for a change.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Like hell they were. They signed some middling players as stop gaps to meet cap floor and have a full roster. In no way did they sign the type of talent that would have given them a serious shot at the playoffs, the fact that they were in the hunt for a while reflects on the team gelling and having semi decent goaltending for a change.

$25m in new ufa contracts comes with expectation. the wings were suppose to compete and maybe even win a wildcard. it didn't work out as planned so people are rightfully questioning the decision.

 

[dekelikekocur]

$25m in new ufa contracts comes with expectation. the wings were suppose to compete and maybe even win a wildcard. it didn't work out as planned so people are rightfully questioning the decision.

They were something like 22 million under the cap floor, the expectation was to get over the floor and have some breathing room. Trying to paint it as anything else is disingenuous. Yes, they expected to do better than last year, and I think overall they did show some development but in no way shape or form were they seriously thinking they were going to be a challenger for a non wild card spot or even in serious contention for a wild card spot.

 

[dirtydanglez]

They were something like 22 million under the cap floor, the expectation was to get over the floor and have some breathing room. Trying to paint it as anything else is disingenuous. Yes, they expected to do better than last year, and I think overall they did show some development but in no way shape or form were they seriously thinking they were going to be a challenger for a non wild card spot or even in serious contention for a wild card spot.

the wings are at $74m, the floor is $60m. the ufas were brought in to make the team competitive.

 

[Betelgeuse]

His Tampa lustre has worn off, that's for sure, but still has a couple years grace to turn it around imo.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Nedeljkovic and Husso have been disasters.

 

[dekelikekocur]

the wings are at $74m, the floor is $60m. the ufas were brought in to make the team competitive.

That 74 is projected cap hit, their actual roster and buried is 59m with another 9m in dead cap, we had enough extra to be able to make trades and yes, to be more competitive than last year, which we were/are.

Last year we were .451, the year prior we were .429, this year we're .513. Yzerman is going the slow and steady route as he's indicated numerous times that it will take time and patience is the key.

 

[Oddbob]

$25m in new ufa contracts comes with expectation. the wings were suppose to compete and maybe even win a wildcard. it didn't work out as planned so people are rightfully questioning the decision.

You do realize that we had to sign about 20 mil just to get to the floor, right? Yzerman said he brought them in to make the team better, but more importantly it was so the young guys weren't getting smoked everynight. Nowhere in Yzerman's press interview before or during this season, did he mention us making the playoffs, simply being more competitive and in the race, which we were. All of that was without Bert and Vrana stuff happening.

 

[Oddbob]

I probably would have moved Larkin if this was going to be a non-playoff year rather than sign him to a deal where he can’t be traded without consent in his 30s when the team is theoretically in its competitive window. Especially if the idea is that he will be a “good 2nd line center” by that point but I think Yzerman chose the path least likely to have blowback.

Really good plan. Where is the Larkin replacement player coming from??? Have you seen any good young centers get traded recently that weren't pending UFA's? Who is playing center for this team in replacement of Larkin? Trading Larkin means we are back to square one in the rebuild process, unless we somehow won the very unlikely shot at Bedard. Even then, Bedard could be Lafreniere level, which isn't close to what Larkin brings to the table. No Larkin and no Bedard win, means who the heck is our #1 center? People already bellyache about Larkin not being good enough to be #1, now imagine an even lesser player. None of the players outside maybe Bedard are realistically going to be top flight players for at least 4-5 more seasons, at which point, we have now wasted 4 to 5 years of prime Seider on even crappier teams than we have seen in the past 3-4 years.

Maybe you think there is some special store to get a really good NHL center that no one else has access to?

There are many teams who drafted nhl players outside the top 20. Some of them might have been used as trade chips. They fill generally depth roles vs being all stars.

you need to have some success filling your 23 man with late 1st and 2nd day draft picks. Thesr pkayers sre grnerally your hotyom 6/ bottom 4.

Look at tampa and Boston. Cirelli and Point were not top 20 picks. Kucherov was not a 1st round pick.

in the era of a hard cap you are going to run into problems trying to survive solely on top 20 picks and signing UFAs.

Yes, and who says Yzerman hasn't already drafted some? None of the outside 1st rounds picks with the exception of Soderblom that Yzerman drafted for Detroit have played for Detroit yet.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Really good plan. Where is the Larkin replacement player coming from??? Have you seen any good young centers get traded recently that weren't pending UFA's? Who is playing center for this team in replacement of Larkin? Trading Larkin means we are back to square one in the rebuild process, unless we somehow won the very unlikely shot at Bedard. Even then, Bedard could be Lafreniere level, which isn't close to what Larkin brings to the table. No Larkin and no Bedard win, means who the heck is our #1 center? People already bellyache about Larkin not being good enough to be #1, now imagine an even lesser player. None of the players outside maybe Bedard are realistically going to be top flight players for at least 4-5 more seasons, at which point, we have now wasted 4 to 5 years of prime Seider on even crappier teams than we have seen in the past 3-4 years.

Maybe you think there is some special store to get a really good NHL center that no one else has access to?

There is no need to be rude, I understand it's the path of least resistance to just re-sign Larkin, but no need to scoff like trading him would have been the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard. There is a lot more consideration in play. FWIW, there is an elite Top 4 this year and even prospects 5 and 6 are all very good... it's a bit of a fallacy to think it's Bedard or Bust and that everyone after him sucks.

 

[Oddbob]

There is no need to be rude, I understand it's the path of least resistance to just re-sign Larkin, but no need to scoff like trading him would have been the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard. There is a lot more consideration in play. FWIW, there is an elite Top 4 this year and even prospects 5 and 6 are all very good... it's a bit of a fallacy to think it's Bedard or Bust and that everyone after him sucks.

Where was I rude?