When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[newfy]

Hughes/Seider would be the best pairing in the league though.

God that would be disgustingly good.

The Seider draft was when Jack Hughes was drafted not Luke, so losing that lottery doesnt really hurt. The year the devils took Luke Hughes the wings took Edvinsson who could be better than Hughes/best pairing in the league at some point anyways

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Those are fine picks but not a cup winning core, which is what he was getting credit for in Tampa

The reason he gets some of that, is he turned down Minnesota and bet that Tampa was the better spot. He waited for an opportunity and he took the one on a slow developing Hedman (people forget this part massively) and Stamkos that had just finished bad enough to draft 6th. Yeah they were talented, but what he put around them, the coaches and people he hired, players he did pull in (Point and Kucherov are both better than Stamkos) play a massive part in those two guys.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Well, that's where not getting those easy lottery picks comes in. Who is questioning where the late round gems are from the Devils last 4 drafts? Who is questioning if Holtz is really going to be a star? A lot is made easier by getting a few #1OAs so your other picks can develop in peace and quiet.

Which brings us back to the topic of this thread. Because winning the lottery isn't a plan (or even a guarantee of anything).

And by the way, lets not pretend that:

1) Guys like Hischier has never been questioned.
2) The Devil's haven't done a ton of building outside the draft (Severson is literally their only D that they drafted).
3) The Devils aren't having the success they are right now without hitting on non-lottery picks (Bratt, Mercer).
4) The Devils don't have good non-lottery prospects from the last 4 drafts.

 

[kranuck]

The Seider draft was when Jack Hughes was drafted not Luke, so losing that lottery doesnt really hurt. The year the devils took Luke Hughes the wings took Edvinsson who could be better than Hughes/best pairing in the league at some point anyways

Quinn over Zadina is what I was thimking

 

[Mrb1p]

Yzerman did the same mistake KH is doing right now: not commiting to a scorched earth rebuild.

The Hawks and Ducks did and they will be better than both teams in 3 years.

If you dont go for that top 3 gamebreaker, you have to get extremely luck with your drafting and land a Pastrnak and a Mcavoy. The Bruins are the only example of a contender that hasnt pick top 3 in the past ~10 years.

 

[Mrb1p]

Which brings us back to the topic of this thread. Because winning the lottery isn't a plan (or even a guarantee of anything).

And by the way, lets not pretend that:

1) Guys like Hischier has never been questioned.
2) The Devil's haven't done a ton of building outside the draft (Severson is literally their only D that they drafted).
3) The Devils aren't having the success they are right now without hitting on non-lottery picks (Bratt, Mercer).
4) The Devils don't have good non-lottery prospects from the last 4 drafts.

You literally just mentionned Mercer?

Also, yes they do in their system.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

team needs to stop winning games and thwarting the tank. middling picks aint it.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yzerman did the same mistake KH is doing right now: not commiting to a scorched earth rebuild.

The Hawks and Ducks did and they will be better than both teams in 3 years.

If you dont go for that top 3 gamebreaker, you have to get extremely luck with your drafting and land a Pastrnak and a Mcavoy. The Bruins are the only example of a contender that hasnt pick top 3 in the past ~10 years.

Ducks full on rebuild started same time as Detroit with Zegras in 2019. But they are still a really bad team. Does anaheim have a key scorer?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Which brings us back to the topic of this thread. Because winning the lottery isn't a plan (or even a guarantee of anything).

I think you misunderstand. Winning the lottery isn't the plan, but if you DON'T - things tend to take more time.
Like, Raymond is 2nd in scoring from his draft class and the only U21 players outscoring him this season are top 3 picks. Yet he's questioned, debated and seen by some as a disappointment.

It's all just a lack of patience.

 

[Mrb1p]

Ducks full on rebuild started same time as Detroit with Zegras in 2019. But they are still a really bad team. Does anaheim have a key scorer?

One of the top 4 from this draft

 

[D1az]

I was perhaps a bit surprised by how he sort of started a new rebuild within a rebuild during the trades this year.
I suppose he wanted to focus on building around Seider and Raymond, and as they are young he assumed that he perhaps had an extra 4-5 years to aim for the peak with some more focus, instead of rushing and failing.

 

[Dtybur]

The first rule of the Yzerplan, is don't talk about the Yzerplan! All of you are now kicked out of the Yzerplan!

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yzerman did the same mistake KH is doing right now: not commiting to a scorched earth rebuild.

The Hawks and Ducks did and they will be better than both teams in 3 years.

If you dont go for that top 3 gamebreaker, you have to get extremely luck with your drafting and land a Pastrnak and a Mcavoy. The Bruins are the only example of a contender that hasnt pick top 3 in the past ~10 years.

His first year in charge they were the worst team in the NHL by a country mile and got to draft 4th. The Wings have moved back in the lottery a lot. It has been said a lot in this thread, so not sure when that will sink in. They weren't rewarded in the way you would expect when they have been bad.

 

[Mrb1p]

His first year in charge they were the worst team in the NHL by a country mile and got to draft 4th. The Wings have moved back in the lottery a lot. It has been said a lot in this thread, so not sure when that will sink in. They weren't rewarded in the way you would expect when they have been bad.

Thats one year. You cant bank off a single year, sadly. He then failed to make the necessary moves to move up in 2021 and 2022.

Beniers or Cooley would make them look a lot better than they are right now.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

They are the anti Oilers - always picking lower than they should, never getting that 1st overall pick.
I still think Yzerman has a good core group. They aren't that far below Ottawa and Buffalo. Would be a big help if they could land a couple UFAs to play in the top half of the line up.

 

[dekelikekocur]

Thats one year. You cant bank off a single year, sadly. He then failed to make the necessary moves to move up in 2021 and 2022.

Beniers or Cooley would make them look a lot better than they are right now.

In 2021 we picked Ed, who so far looks like he's going to pan out well, in 2022 we picked Kasper, who in his first NHL game(literally flew over after Rogle's season ended) at 18 years old, the other night centered our 2nd line and looked the part quite nicely, bit more development and some core development and the kid's floor is crazy high.

Cooley hasn't even been in the NHL yet. Berniers is doing well but again, we took a defensemen that year that looks to be a top 4 as a floor and a top pairing as a ceiling.

Our first round picks look to be panning out but rebuilds also require later round picks to pan out and those typically take time. Yzerman's secound round picks are already starting to show promise/progress and other later round picks are picking up steam as well (Mazur, Soderblom).

 

[Ezekial]

This guy's ability to see the future is uncanny.

You'd think he'd use his amazing abilities to better the world but, no, we all get to read his posts on HFBoards instead.

 

[Mrb1p]

In 2021 we picked Ed, who so far looks like he's going to pan out well, in 2022 we picked Kasper, who in his first NHL game(literally flew over after Rogle's season ended) at 18 years old, the other night centered our 2nd line and looked the part quite nicely, bit more development and some core development and the kid's floor is crazy high.

Cooley hasn't even been in the NHL yet. Berniers is doing well but again, we took a defensemen that year that looks to be a top 4 as a floor and a top pairing as a ceiling.

Our first round picks look to be panning out but rebuilds also require later round picks to pan out and those typically take time. Yzerman's secound round picks are already starting to show promise/progress and other later round picks are picking up steam as well (Mazur, Soderblom).

You talk about floor and I talk about gamebreaking. Therein lies the problem.

 

[norrisnick]

You talk about floor and I talk about gamebreaking. Therein lies the problem.

Edvinsson's ceiling is Hedman. That's plenty game breaking.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He then failed to make the necessary moves to move up in 2021 and 2022.

Beniers or Cooley would make them look a lot better than they are right now.

And those moves would have been what?

 

[Ezekial]

You talk about floor and I talk about gamebreaking. Therein lies the problem.

Do you think Nick Suzuki is a gamebreaking talent?

 

[Mrb1p]

Edvinsson's ceiling is Hedman. That's plenty game breaking.

Thats a stretch.

And those moves would have been what?

Sell, maximize assets turnover. Is Larkin really a center piece for your rebuild? Chicago moved DBC to secure a top 4 this year. Copp, Chiarot? Etc.

Do you think Nick Suzuki is a gamebreaking talent?

No, as I said, Hughes is making the same mistake.

 

[Ezekial]

Thats a stretch.

Sell, maximize assets turnover. Is Larkin really a center piece for your rebuild? Chicago moved DBC to secure a top 4 this year. Copp, Chiarot? Etc.

No, as I said, Hughes is making the same mistake.

I'm just not sure how drafting Zadina over Hughes relates to Yzerman I guess

 

[Pavels Dog]

Sell, maximize assets turnover. Is Larkin really a center piece for your rebuild? Chicago moved DBC to secure a top 4 this year. Copp, Chiarot? Etc.

Do you really think Detroit without Chiarot is worse than Chicago this year?

And I thought you were talking about 2021 and 2022? How did Copp affect our draft position those years? Should we have traded Seider and Raymond too, given they were massive parts of lifting us out of the bottom 4?

 

[norrisnick]

Do you really think Detroit without Chiarot is worse than Chicago this year?

And I thought you were talking about 2021 and 2022? How did Copp affect our draft position those years? Should we have traded Seider and Raymond too, given they were massive parts of lifting us out of the bottom 4?

The Wings under Yzerman are bad and heading in the wrong direction. That is the premise and that is all that matters. Nevermind digging into the details as they won't be consistent anyway.