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When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

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Seriously though, why is no one criticising Yzerman? 100 pages of this thread and all I see is praise and adulation for the Detroit rebuild.

Sickening I tell you that anyone can have a shred of optimism left. We need to snuff out any whiff of hope remaining within that fanbase. All they'll have left is their beautiful jerseys and that incredible logo!

 
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Crunchy said:
Seriously though, why is no one criticising Yzerman? 100 pages of this thread and all I see is praise and adulation for the Detroit rebuild.

Sickening I tell you that anyone can have a shred of optimism left. We need to snuff out any whiff of hope remaining within that fanbase. All they'll have left is their beautiful jerseys and that incredible logo!

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Watch how long it takes the Pens to rebuild after going from Champs to chumps.
How long have Hawks, Sharks, Ducks, Flames, Flyers, Jackets , Sens, Habs, Sabres , Blues, been terribly poor to average.
Stevie Y has had four years. What's with the pitchfork?

Shanny has won one round in 10 years.

This is the NHL .
 
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PaulD said:
Watch how long it takes the Pens to rebuild after going from Champs to chumps.
How long have Hawks, Sharks, Ducks, Flames, Flyers, Jackets , Sens, Habs, Sabres , Blues, been terribly poor to average.
Stevie Y has had four years. What's with the pitchfork?

Shanny has won one round in 10 years.

This is the NHL .
Click to expand...
 
PaulD said:
Watch how long it takes the Pens to rebuild after going from Champs to chumps.
How long have Hawks, Sharks, Ducks, Flames, Flyers, Jackets , Sens, Habs, Sabres , Blues, been terribly poor to average.
Stevie Y has had four years. What's with the pitchfork?

Shanny has won one round in 10 years.

This is the NHL .
Click to expand...

4 years?

He started in 2019……. This is starting to be the end of year 6 for him& they already had their 1C in the system when he came in

It’s always excuses excuses excuses with him

This WC race is pathetic and they are still struggling to get in

Columbus& Montreal started their rebuilds years later than Detroit and are right there already with Detroit with better looking futures
 
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Crazy how you can go from the best gm of all time when your state taxes give your salary cap a huge bump to whatever this is.

It’s difficult for teams like mine and Detroit to be super competitive since our teams players pay state taxes. If you want to give those teams an additional 10-12% (Commenters later on show this is cut in half, my apologies for exaggeration) salary cap we can talk, until then, parity is broken, I’m not interested in debating it. It’s broken.

It’s almost like judging a gms performance on a broken playing field is a waste of time.

Yzerman can build a dynasty if you give him a cheat code and he is literally ass if you put him behind the 8 ball. I’m going to tell you a secret: it’s the cheat code/8 ball that is driving the results, not the man. 6 teams get way more players and get to pick from them all the best every time. It’s dumb.
 
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Yzerman could possibly regain some of the fanbase’s confidence by retooling the pro scouting department. Amateur has done well. Trades and free agents have been subpar. Without any knowledge on the subject, is there a need for greater analytics use in the organization?

Had the luxury of cap space for a while to overpay average players to flesh out the roster and get progressively more competitive from their lowest point. Now is the time for shrewd moves and attempting to find game breakers.

I don’t believe Yzerman deserves all of the criticism he is receiving from the fans but also needs to do something to get to the next level.

How can you fault him for missing out on Cozens? Where is the comparable second line centre to exchange such as Norris? They are not contenders so it is unrealistic to move premium assets for a month and a half of Brock Nelson, etc.
 
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StlBigFly said:
It’s difficult for teams like mine and Detroit to be super competitive since our teams players pay state taxes. If you want to give those teams an additional 10-12% salary cap we can talk, until then, parity is broken, I’m not interested in debating it. It’s broken.
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Just FYI, bit MI has a 4.25% state tax rate. That means that Wings players pay about 2% more in taxes than someone on TB or FLA. Not enough of a difference to give SY a get a pass IMO. Certainly not any 10-12% difference.
 
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Beukeboom Fan said:
Just FYI, bit MI has a 4.25% state tax rate. That means that Wings players pay about 2% more in taxes than someone on TB or FLA. Not enough of a difference to give SY a get a pass IMO. Certainly not any 10-12% difference.
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The study I don’t have like freely at my fingertips to link broke down the situation well. If I can recall it I’ll edit and provide that source but it’s something I read last year….

It is not simply the tax rate and that oversimplifies too far. Players care about their individual effective tax rate not the general statewide percentage. it is the combination of things one can withhold, and to be honest, a bunch of tax stuff I didn’t care to really read apart from looking at it and thinking okay that makes sense. High net worth taxation is not the same as traditional income level earners. They broke down specific active players and showed that it’s roughly a 10-12% difference. They compared multiple players to different tax environments. Not all were equally bad but on average the gap is substantial, based on the study. I’ll try to dig it up.

I believe this is the group that had the study but I don’t see the specific study. Instead, here’s a robust calculator that does even more than a study. It appears Detroit to Dallas is a 7% swing, so you were closer than I was. Still, if you’re simultaneously attracting the best talent and getting it 7% off…that’s broken imo. If you pick Toronto and a no tax team it’s like 15%. Kinda wouldn’t be down with this if I were the leafs.

Canadian teams already face exchange rate headwinds. It’s going to damage the nhl to give these Canadian groups such opposition to success. As the salary cap rises the impact of exchange rate challenges grows with it. To have these teams also really challenged to be competitive is bad. Detroit doesn’t have it as bad but to me it’s negligible how undesirable some place could be so long as a group of places maintain the significant advantage. 5% is about as bad as 10% is about as bad as 15 - once youre in the bad group you’re passed over no matter how bad it is - until enough talent has filled the slots in those beneficial areas, the you and the other 26 are picking through the scraps and paying more for them, some paying much more; others just a little more…. A terrible system that doesn’t appear to be sustainable.

Tax Calculator - Cardinal Point

Athlete Advisors
cardinalpointathleteadvisors.com cardinalpointathleteadvisors.com
 
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Pavels Dog said:
It’s a minor depth move. Not everything needs deeper analysis than that.
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4.5 mill goalie is not a minor depth move. 4.5 for a backup Is a bad move imo. I'm not even sure where he fits for rest of this season? You have two good goalies now and 2 great ones in the pipe.

This is HF .. we break down every move. Waiver wire pickups get 5 pages around here!

Also, happy to analyse all his tdl moves.. I've already shit all over bowman for his oilers moves.lol
 
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Czechboy said:
4.5 mill goalie is not a minor depth move. 4.5 for a backup Is a bad move imo. I'm not even sure where he fits for rest of this season? You have two good goalies now and 2 great ones in the pipe.

This is HF .. we break down every move. Waiver wire pickups get 5 pages around here!

Also, happy to analyse all his tdl moves.. I've already shit all over bowman for his oilers moves.lol
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They have been struggling as of late.

Also sounds like he didn't want to give more term to someone in the summer if Cossa isn't ready. So this is a easy and cheap way to have a backup plan. 7mil for Talbot and Mrazek next year doesn't really bother me, and is better than again giving 2-4 years to a ufa goalie. The goalies out there this summer is not a great crop either.
 
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StlBigFly said:
It’s difficult for teams like mine and Detroit to be super competitive since our teams players pay state taxes. If you want to give those teams an additional 10-12% salary cap we can talk, until then, parity is broken, I’m not interested in debating it. It’s broken.
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Please, elaborate on the assumptions you are making (specific, please) on your way to this 10-12% extra cap figure you referenced here. Keep in mind that state taxes are typically much lower than federal, proportionally speaking, and also that all players only pay state taxes on the 41 home games they play in that state. They pay the other states taxes on their 41 away game checks.
 
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Czechboy said:
4.5 mill goalie is not a minor depth move. 4.5 for a backup Is a bad move imo. I'm not even sure where he fits for rest of this season? You have two good goalies now and 2 great ones in the pipe.

This is HF .. we break down every move. Waiver wire pickups get 5 pages around here!

Also, happy to analyse all his tdl moves.. I've already shit all over bowman for his oilers moves.lol
Click to expand...

Timely trade in my books. They were forced to give Lyon's share of starts to Old Man Talbot, because recently Lyon simply wasn't a reliable option anymore. And I think it's wearing Talbot out. With Mrazek, I think they will try to go 50/50 between him and Talbot.
 
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a mangy Meowth said:
Please, elaborate on the assumptions you are making (specific, please) on your way to this 10-12% extra cap figure you referenced here. Keep in mind that state taxes are typically much lower than federal, proportionally speaking, and also that all players only pay state taxes on the 41 home games they play in that state. They pay the other states taxes on their 41 away game checks.
Click to expand...
I’m referencing a study I cannot source - it appears to have been disappeared, but I believe it was from this group:

Tax Calculator - Cardinal Point

Athlete Advisors
cardinalpointathleteadvisors.com cardinalpointathleteadvisors.com

That will provide the variation in take home pay for high value earners and is specifically targeting hockey athletes. The previous study I mentioned (and can’t find) approximated the total tax burden to roughly be 10-12% and it had half a dozen or more line items. It really isn’t valuable unless I can provide it, I tried. I do recall a lot of minutea about property and other things besides just income tax. You’d also think a group putting out a calculator would identify a split in taxation for home away? Idk.

The link shows a roughly 7% gap for Detroit and, for example, Dallas. Other teams compared to Dallas are above 14%. I may have been wrong with the 10-12%, or the calculator I’ve provided may not include some things the study did. The study came from an agent group, so I went with it. I’m not sure where the home away split of taxation falls into this - perhaps that reduces the burden in cases outside of performance bonus - but then I feel we’d see less Canadian nhlers wanting performance bonuses but it seems they instead prefer them more up north.

Perhaps in the future I will rephrase to 5-15% or something. Or maybe I’ll stop whining about it. That’s prob what I should do. Just bored today.
 
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NinjaTurtle said:
How can you fault him for missing out on Cozens? Where is the comparable second line centre to exchange such as Norris?
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Comparable second line center would mean an injury prone, overpaid second line center. I do not think there is any missing out on Cozens (or Norris). It's just two teams swapping their overpaid warts and praying to come out ahead. Luckily Detroit currently doesn't have such a problem to fix (knock on wood).
 
For as much as I laugh at the Yzerplan, I think it's about time the heat goes on the TomFather or whatever dumb name they called him.

He took over in New Jersey a year after Yzerman did in Detroit. He took over a team that wasn't nearly as FUBAR'd (At least not by 2020, you can argue it was closer in 2015) as 2019 Detroit was.

And he's made the playoffs one time in 5 years as the GM if the Devils miss again. And he honestly needs to start getting heat.

I don't like what Yzerman has done at all, I've posted a lot about it in this thread. But it's mostly the stupid UFA stuff he's done. I don't think the Red Wings should have expected to have sustainable success before 2026, with how f***ed up the place was when he took over. I just feel some of what he's done is setting the team up to be more of a team that finishes between 7th and 11th place, rather than eventually a contender.
 
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theVladiator said:
Timely trade in my books. They were forced to give Lyon's share of starts to Old Man Talbot, because recently Lyon simply wasn't a reliable option anymore. And I think it's wearing Talbot out. With Mrazek, I think they will try to go 50/50 between him and Talbot.
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That sounds great if true. I like Mrazek as a Wing. I assumed he was goalie 3 and eating Nachos or playing AHL with Campbell. Imagine if Petr helps them get to playoffs? Would be an amazing story.
 
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Walman looking sharp so far in his Oilers debut. Does anyone know what Yzergod was thinking when he traded this guy away? Personality conflict?
 
StlBigFly said:
Crazy how you can go from the best gm of all time when your state taxes give your salary cap a huge bump to whatever this is.
Click to expand...

This helps, but Tampa just got very lucky when they hit on those Kucherov and Point picks.

Although the picks were somewhat savvy, these players were still selected quite low in their respective drafts. This means that both could have been taken by other teams because Tampa took them. Their first pick in the 2011 draft was Namestnikov and then they took Kucherov about 30 picks later. So ultimately, no matter how you slice it, Tampa got lucky. Sometimes teams get lucky multiple times and this ends up being the difference between being middling and being a multiple cup winner.

Without these two pieces they win nothing.
 
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