When did you know it was over for this group?

[rocketman588]

We finished 18th in goals against, let me guess, that was all goaltending, which isn’t the GMs fault?

Crazy that people blamed goaltending when the only reason we went on the initial run was Jack playing .940 hockey

Goalie advanced stats seem to be inverse of just normal advanced ones. You shouldn't be judging goalies on your own offensive zone possession time

Our team hangs their GKs out to dry on a regular basis.

Samsonov was .850 vs the Kings and was the MVP that basically tells you all you need to know about our team

 

[Osmows OReilly]

Technically it’s not yet over for this group because they haven’t hit rock bottom and trades/firings haven’t been made, but to the answer the question I knew it “was over” after game five of the Columbus series. Winners don’t epically come back in game four only to lay an egg and get shutout in game five.

In the Montreal series I predicted it would go to seven games. When they lost in overtime in game 5 I knew the series was over.

 

[socko]

Going with a rookie GM is always risky, but I didn't have a hugely negative opinion of Dubas the moment he was gifted the job. However, it didn't take long for things to start adding up. The Nylander cave was one of the early warning signs. Just no reason to cave into him. The Tavares signing, yuck. Things like 10 games of a broken back Foligno for a first round pick. Just laughable. Also makes you want to cry. What a disaster that guy is and has been. And now it's so bad I can't even enjoy watching the team anymore. He has destroyed so much. He is so bad at his job it's just crazy he wasn't fired long ago. We deserved better, us fans.

 

[ACC1224]

Going with a rookie GM is always risky, but I didn't have a hugely negative opinion of Dubas the moment he was gifted the job. However, it didn't take long for things to start adding up. The Nylander cave was one of the early warning signs. Just no reason to cave into him. The Tavares signing, yuck. Things like 10 games of a broken back Foligno for a first round pick. Just laughable. Also makes you want to cry. What a disaster that guy is and has been. And now it's so bad I can't even enjoy watching the team anymore. He has destroyed so much. He is so bad at his job it's just crazy he wasn't fired long ago. We deserved better, us fans.

Yep, that was the confirmation of the earlier doubts.

 

[themilosh]

The answer for me isn't one thing, it's continued failure, questionable efforts and a diminishing talent pool with little to no return (Kadri, Mikheyev, Brown, Hyman, Kapanen, Lybushkin, Andersen). I'd be lying if I said I predicted this happening 5 years ago, the truth is I agreed with many of the moves made. This stretch has taught me alot about hockey that I didn't understand before. Chief among them is that there is a reason certain practices withstand the test of time, it's because they work. The Leafs tried to reinvent the wheel and doubled down when it didn't work. A part of me respects the conviction, but it obviously was misplaced in retrospect.

Similar sutuation to the Russel Wilson INT in Superbowl XL. Everyone freaked out at the unconventional call by Pete, by I still loved the call, and niw have to own the result.

 

[rocketman588]

For me it was when we dragged babs through the mud.

Everyone knew it was time for him to go.

Spitting on his grave as an organization to justify the move showed how insecure the organization actually was.

He was also old school he was never going to come out and shit on the leafs it was uneeeded

 

[Dekes For Days]

The 9th best D does not equate to “one of the best” in my books.

We had the 3rd best defensive results in the league last year. 8th worst goaltending.

 

[Sweetpotato]

The year over year loss of depth and role players like Hyman and Kadri. That's when I knew it was never this group.

I 100% know there's a way through this look how quickly Calgary flipped the script. I just don't believe Dubas is the one that can do it.

 

[keonsbitterness]

When they traded Wendel Clark for Mats Sundin.

After a trade we clearly won?

 

[Holymakinaw]

After a trade we clearly won?

We traded away our heart & soul for a robot and zero chance of ever winning.

 

[notbias]

Yep, that was the confirmation of the earlier doubts.

Nylander called to accept the offer last minute, not Dubas, not sure why people hold onto this narrative, I hope misinformed but I think a lot of people just hear what they want to hear.

 

[allfornothing]

We had the 3rd best defensive results in the league last year. 8th worst goaltending.

Stop saying that, they had bottom tier goals against and you know it. The defense is on for the goals why do you always forget that.

After a trade we clearly won?

The franchise that acquired Clark won how many cups since?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Honestly, once Dubas took over and paid these guys big money. The Kadri trade and Tavares signing was the final nail

Bingo. It all started with the overpays imo. That forced us to give away draft picks for cap relief, skimp on defense and goaltending, and trade away proven NHL players. Look at Colorado. Up until they won the cup last year, Nathan MacKinnon was making 6.3 million over 7 years. Paying Matthews and Marner those high salary averages without getting term in exchange was utter incompetence.

 

[keonsbitterness]

We traded away our heart & soul for a robot and zero chance of ever winning.

Wendel won nothing either by that standard, plus his body was a shell of its former self at that point. And I loved him as a Leaf.

The franchise that acquired Clark won how many cups since?

None with him.

 

[rocketman588]

Stop saying that, they had bottom tier goals against and you know it. The defense is on for the goals why do you always forget that.


The franchise that acquired Clark won how many cups since?

Justin Holl : Elite

- bullshit defensive metrics

 

[allfornothing]

Wendel won nothing either by that standard, plus his body was a shell of its former self at that point. And I loved him as a Leaf.


None with him.

The franchise who won more cups after the trade won the trade.

 

[Leafsfan74]

"Over"? I don't know if I'd go that far, but I did feel that no big changes after the loss to the Habs meant that the age old Maple Leaf tradition of allowing prisoners to run the asylum would continue.

It doesn't matter who the coach is. You either surround the team with strong, opinionated Gamers, or the entitled will remain that way.

Vince Lombardis moved on from players when the effort wasn't there consistently or his head was in the clouds. If an organization rewards mediocrity, it is what you will get. You need your coach to have the power and he MUST reward based on merit shown TODAY, not tenure or history.

I don't care how much the game has changed, if you coddle guys, they will never be winners. This has been proven over the last five years. "Getting along" is great, but it should be pure misery if you're not winning.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Stop saying that, they had bottom tier goals against and you know it. The defense is on for the goals why do you always forget that.

I know the defense is on for the goals. You seem to be forgetting that the goalie is also on for the goals. They had mid-tier goals against because they had bottom-tier goaltending results behind their top tier defensive results.

 

[keonsbitterness]

The franchise who won more cups after the trade won the trade.

If you say we traded Lefebvre and Claude Lemieux for Sundin, then sure. But in a direct comparison of the two main trade figures, Sundin was an upgrade over Clark, not to mention that a long-term #1 centre was a clear position of need.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

don't forget about soy

Have you soon Dubas? Guy exudes soy.

 

[GoonieFace]

I know the defense is on for the goals. You seem to be forgetting that the goalie is also on for the goals. They had mid-tier goals against because they had bottom-tier goaltending results behind their top tier defensive results.

I want some of what you are on

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

When the league is calling?

Again 3 teams have played EBUGs

Winnipeg scored 0
Leafs scored 2 and stopped.

Dallas had 2 shots and stopped. The goal went off the Anaheim player

Soooo you think that all 3 teams just can’t score on 40 year olds?

I'm sorry, not a Leafs fan. But this is just detached from reality.

So your cope, instead of acknowledging that the Leafs were dominated, is that they were too nice and intentionally threw the game?

Not in an exhibition game, in a regular season game that mattered for the team. That's just an unhinged take.

 

[Jozay]

Its joever

 

[Morbo]

Amazing we're still hearing about the mythical "Nylander cave"

 

[notbias]

Amazing we're still hearing about the mythical "Nylander cave"

It is truly amazing.

Ultimately, Nylander’s camp came off what TSN Hockey Insiders Darren Dreger and Bob McKenzie said was originally an $8 million per season ask, and settled on something that wouldn’t hamper the Leafs in their upcoming negotiations with pending RFA’s Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner.

“Both sides were holding their ground and knew what they wanted and that’s why I think it took the time we took,” Nylander acknowledged. “[On Saturday], I was like ‘well, now we have to get something going here, deadline is coming up.’ I talked to the [NHLPA] and they said the contract should be done by 4:30, so that’s when I called. It was tight.”

Here is an article about Nylander being promised he would not be traded, another claim that I am not sure has much validity.

Kyle Dubas Never Promised Not to Trade William Nylander - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

There is a myth that Kyle Dubas promised William Nylander he wouldn't be traded. What did Dubas really say about that supposed promise?

thehockeywriters.com

This one you can either argue as Dubas promised him that or Nylander's quote was about him immediately not being traded, which was agreed upon.

Just keep posting "first-round exit" instead of making up things, at least no one can dispute that.