When did you know it was over for this group?

[snipes29]

For me, it was the infamous "The Leafs lost to a 42-year old zamboni driver, who works for them" game against CAR in 2020. I personally see that game as not only the most humiliating loss in Leafs history, NHL history, hockey history, but all of sports history (if anyone has one that's worse, please share it for the sake of my morbid curiosity). It was not only the loss of that game, but the fact that Sheldon Keefe cancelled practice the following day, presumably so that the players wouldn't have to face scrutiny from the media. Lastly, Kyle Dubas claiming that the opposing team losing both of their starting goaltenders and so you get to shoot for half the game on a human shooter-tutor is a "no win" situation.

People like to meme and joke about this game and it's obvious why, however, if you look at it from a serious perspective, that 24 hour span truly shows how incompetent this organization is, top to bottom, from its soy-infused GM, to its cowardly coach, to its soft, gutless players. And sitting at the top of shit mountain is Shanahan, the carnival barker, who always somehow manages to escape criticism but should also be gone for allowing this obvious circus to continue unabated for his entire tenure. This organization is completely lacking in accountability and has been for years. We saw this ugliness rear its head again just recently when Keefe had to walk back his (perfectly valid and 100% correct) criticisms of his pampered prima donna stars. The inmates run the asylum in Toronto and this has been obvious to me for years. I'm glad other people are finally waking up to this fact.

You want change and success in Toronto? This entire organization needs to be gutted, top to bottom. Shanahan needs to go, Dubas needs to go, Keefe needs to go and this core needs to be blown into unrecognizable pieces. Then you start building from the ground up once more. Yes, it's horrendous luck (and just so Toronto) that when they finally draft and develop and hit on so many great picks that they all turn out to be spoiled immature children that worship at the shrine of failure when it comes to team success, but continuing to "run it back" for years and years with the same result is an even bigger L that is entirely self inflicted and completely unnecessary.

love you comments totally agree every thing you said is correct

Honestly, once Dubas took over and paid these guys big money. The Kadri trade and Tavares signing was the final nail

totally agree

 

[snipes29]

Captain's first game back to the Island.

That's when the baby pukes ran and hid, leaving their captain to hang.

their Captain is gutless coward

 

[mclaren55]

You seem to have no idea what Dubas' "team building" and "game approach strategy" even is. We were one of the best defensive teams in the league last year, FYI.

We finished 18th in goals against, let me guess, that was all goaltending, which isn’t the GMs fault?

 

[snipes29]

For me it started when Dubas asked the 3 kids if they approved signing Tavares,I was he did what????????
Nylander hold out with losing nothing for me was oh oh we are in trouble.
Matthews get everything his way and all me me me contract followed by Mitch I want eveything too pretty much told me this is not a team but a bunch of greedy me players that don't give a shit about anything but themselves.
Then watching a ton of star players sign with other teams for way less and great team friendly contracts was the final straw and I could not see this team winning.
It also marked the first time ever,even in the non playoff years,that I did not like the majority of the players and no longer watch all the games.
I fully blame Dubas and this all started when he was made GM.

yep agree

 

[Legion34]

More excuses.

They were down 4-3 going into the 3rd. All they had to do was shut down the Canes, score 1 in the 3rd, and win it in OT. Simple. Everybody wins.

But nope, they give up 2 to the Canes (one 53 seconds into the 3rd) and lose 6-3 in front of their home fans and an HNIC audience.

If you guys are correct and they "let" the Canes get a feel good win, and sacrifice 2 valuable points, that's even worse.

When the league is calling?

Again 3 teams have played EBUGs

Winnipeg scored 0
Leafs scored 2 and stopped.

Dallas had 2 shots and stopped. The goal went off the Anaheim player

Soooo you think that all 3 teams just can’t score on 40 year olds?

 

[snipes29]

Bottom line, the problem is Dubas, and by proxy, Shanny as well.

Dubas flat out REFUSES to address key issues after key losses which highlight tons of red flags.

Sees how important goaltending (Jackets, Habs, Lightning series losses) yet instead of wheeling and dealing (or just keeping Jack who was decent) he cheaps out and takes the lazy++ way out on goaltending for this year, which as others have mentioned, involves a Hail Mary prayer to baby Jesus that it will work. In theory it's insane.

Dubas started this goaltending issue his boy Keefe won with Marlie they spent over twice the money all others did to win? Sparks was assigned the job in camp didnt win the Job. How did that work out Kyle? Then we sisg Souppy , never been a number one, But he played in Soo lol . Now we have Murray where did he play Junior? hmmm lol Dumbass

 

[snipes29]

Take your pick:

Zamboni goalie Ayres
Columbus series
Habs series
Losing to Sabres 3 times last year
Losing to Yotes almost every game
No hitting, no retaliation, no physical engagement of any kind

LOL YOU FORGOT THEIR BUBBLE WRAP ! SISSY,s

 

[Dekes For Days]

We finished 18th in goals against

Goals against is a mixture of defense and goaltending, not just defense.

 

[mclaren55]

Goals against is a mixture of defense and goaltending, not just defense.

Correct, you stated we had one of the best defences in the league last year, no? So I guess cumulatively we must have had the worst goal tending to finish in the bottom half, right?

 

[egd27]

When the league is calling?

Again 3 teams have played EBUGs

Winnipeg scored 0
Leafs scored 2 and stopped.

Dallas had 2 shots and stopped. The goal went off the Anaheim player

Soooo you think that all 3 teams just can’t score on 40 year olds?

Foster - played 14 mins and Hawks were up 6-2 when he came in. Winnipeg had already given up
Alves - Played 8 seconds
Hodges - Dallas did exactly what I suggested the Leafs should have done. Scored the go ahead goal, and shut down the Ducks for the win. 2 points, no bad feelings,

 

[Legion34]

Foster - played 14 mins and Hawks were up 6-2 when he came in. Winnipeg had already given up
Alves - Played 8 seconds
Hodges - Dallas did exactly what I suggested the Leafs should have done. Scored the go head goal, and shut down the Ducks for the win. 2 points, no bad feelings,

they could not have scored more? They got a goal off a lucky bounce and stopped.

Sooo winnipeg couldn’t score 4 in 14 min? It’s ok for them to give up?

 

[dirtydanglez]

when they took a shortcut on the rebuild and signed john tavares

 

[egd27]

they could not have scored more? They got a goal off a lucky bounce and stopped.

Sooo winnipeg couldn’t score 4 in 14 min? It’s ok for them to give up?

1. Got the 2 points....that's the objective
2. Don't care if they gave up, not a fan of of the Jets

 

[Bomber0104]

Pretty much the moment they announced Kyle Dubas as GM of the team, and I said as much at the time too. That was my gut feel on it and the growing list of f*** ups along the way have only validated my opinion since then.

Oddly enough, the initial thread announcing his promotion has been scrubbed from the Leafs board?

 

[Scion]

The answer for me isn't one thing, it's continued failure, questionable efforts and a diminishing talent pool with little to no return (Kadri, Mikheyev, Brown, Hyman, Kapanen, Lybushkin, Andersen). I'd be lying if I said I predicted this happening 5 years ago, the truth is I agreed with many of the moves made. This stretch has taught me alot about hockey that I didn't understand before. Chief among them is that there is a reason certain practices withstand the test of time, it's because they work. The Leafs tried to reinvent the wheel and doubled down when it didn't work. A part of me respects the conviction, but it obviously was misplaced in retrospect.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Correct, you stated we had one of the best defences in the league last year, no? So I guess cumulatively we must have had the worst goal tending to finish in the bottom half, right?

We had the 8th worst goaltending. If you want to be upset about that, go ahead, but that still doesn't change the fact that the original statement about us was incorrect.

 

[Leafs4Life77]

So many moments to count. I give them a pass for that 1st playoff series against Washington. Young team happy to be there. No one expected us to be there and we gave a good effort.

2018 - Down 3-1 in the series we fight back and are leading 4-3 going into the 3rd period of game 7 and guess what? We give up 4!?!?!? in the 3rd. We choke another series against Boston.
2019- Now we are up 3-2 in the series headed home and we score the 1st goal in game 6 on home ice. Wow we are doing it! Finally we are going to defeat our demons. Nope give up the next 3 goals and head back to Boston for another game 7. Game 7 we get our doors blown off 5-1. Soft goals and terrible effort. We should have known at this point this "team" doesn't have "it"
2020 - Team is playing like crap with Babcock coaching. Let's go with Keefe that will solve everything. We lose to a 42 year old zamboni driver. It can't get lower than that can it? Yes it can. We face Columbus who on "paper" we are better than them. Well we are tied after 2 games and leading game 3 by 3 goals. We blow it and lose in OT. Next game we come back down from a 3 goal deficit and win in OT. We are going to do it right? Nope once again we shit the bed in a win or go home game 7. Do you see a trend here?
2021 - We are gifted an "all Canadian division" finally we won't have to play Boston or Tampa right? Well we cruise through and win the division. We face the Habs who are literally one of the worst teams in the playoffs. They had a negative goal differential in the regular season/lowest points in the standings of any team in the playoffs. We jump out to 3-1 series lead. Looking good and finally going to do it right? Nope we blow it again in 2 more overtimes. Then shit the bed in game 7. I'm thinking this is a bit of a trend.
2022- Back to the regular divisions. We have our best regular season in years - Our best player Matthews hits 60 goals/ Hart trophy favorite. We face the Lightning coming off 2 cup runs. They are vulnerable right? Well once again we are leading 3-2 in the series. Game 6 we are "leading" 3-2 going into the 3rd period. What do we do? we blow it again in another overtime period. After all of this do you have faith in this team in game 7? I know i didn't. We blow it again in game 7 this time on home ice. We now own the longest playoff series win drought and cup drought - breaking records for losing.

After all this management said " we believe in this group" let's run it back. All this group has shown is they know how to lose in spectacular fashion.

Great post. It's incredible that we are now in Year 7 of the Matthews / Marner era and don't have a single series win to show for it. This group has consistently either not pulled through or not shown up at all in a deciding game....and yet the changes to date have been mostly ancillary.

10 straight losses in series-clinching games. That's not some bad bounces or puck-luck this is a group that isn't even close to being able to win 4 rounds.

 

[ACC1224]

It was over the moment they hired Dubas. Many knew it was a bad idea.

 

[Dayjobdave]

I've been a long believer but it sure feels like we're off the rails and standing alone in the wilderness, wondering how we got here, what to do next, and will we ever find our way back home again.

I think our possession game has been figured out, and our coach doesn't know what to do about it.

Change or die - and we haven't changed in years.

 

[frog]

When i realized the best winger is whinier and more spoiled than nylander I knew we were in trouble... Cant win with two spoiled babies in the top 6. Marner needs to grow up, taveres needs to be less of a wimp

 

[Once]

A lot of great examples in this thread. But the Montreal series put the nail in the coffin for me. I haven’t believed much at all since then.

 

[Trapper]

Many good examples here.
Primary is probably refusing to acknowledge the can and we will wasn’t working and the belief in do the same thing over and over and expect a different result would work.
This mentality created the timeline we are in now.

 

[mclaren55]

We had the 8th worst goaltending. If you want to be upset about that, go ahead, but that still doesn't change the fact that the original statement about us was incorrect.

The 9th best D does not equate to “one of the best” in my books. Go ahead though, I’m sure total shots against per game is somehow an irrelevant way to judge shot suppression (effectiveness of a defence). You can live in whatever fairy tale you want, but calling Toronto one of the best defences in the league last year is disingenuous at best, straight up false at its worst.

 

[kevsh]

For me it started when Dubas asked the 3 kids if they approved signing Tavares,I was he did what????????
Nylander hold out with losing nothing for me was oh oh we are in trouble.
Matthews get everything his way and all me me me contract followed by Mitch I want eveything too pretty much told me this is not a team but a bunch of greedy me players that don't give a shit about anything but themselves.
Then watching a ton of star players sign with other teams for way less and great team friendly contracts was the final straw and I could not see this team winning.
It also marked the first time ever,even in the non playoff years,that I did not like the majority of the players and no longer watch all the games.
I fully blame Dubas and this all started when he was made GM.

As many have pointed out, the Tavares singing had a domino effect* that the team couldn't get out from under. I get that Dubas was a rookie GM but that's on Shanny for giving him the keys to the ship which allowed him to make such huge impact moves like the Tavares signing and then having to handle negotiations with the team's young stars.

Kyle was way in over his head and by the time he could have learned from his mistakes the damage had been done. And he just compounded it with a series of bad trades, unfounded (stubborn) faith in the core and the self-inflicted wound of having very little cap space to work with.

* First off, the Tavares signing was similar to the Kessel trade in that it addressed a need that wasn't a need: At the time Phil was brought in the Leafs badly needed a 1C and help on the blueline, so Burke sent the teams's most valuable assets, first round picks, for a RW. With Matthews and Kadri at 1C/2C the Leafs were solid up the middle but badly needed help on the blueline. The Tavares signing gave them maybe the best 1-2-3 at C but left Dubas to spend the next 3 years desperately working within the little cap space he had left to shore up the blueline.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

I knew it during the series with the Habs, no good reason to lose that series. And when you're paying 10.89 million per year to a man crying in the penalty box, its hard to believe in team.

I knew Dubas didn't have it when he re-signed Kapanen and Andreas Johnsson to long-term deals when it was fairly obvious he wouldn't be able to afford them past a year or 2. The classic case of over-rating your own players, which is the cardinal sin for General Managers.