Whats the argument that Sweden still is a hockey-power?

[Czechboy]

Here’s how it works:

Ra: Why ppl saying Sweden has good defensemen, they suck defensively? Give me this list of fringe Finnish, Slovak and Czech NHL defensemen with zero points and 6 min TOI avg over Hedman and Karlsson who only score points.

— Why is Hedman played 25-30 min per game on back-to-back Cup champs if he sucks?

Ra: Because he’s only good offensively. Give me Jiricek and Kral over Hedman.

— Why are these Swedes playing top 2 minutes ES and on the PK on good NHL teams if they suck defensively?

Ra: Välimäki, Knazko over offensive defensemen Ekholm and Larsson.

— Why are NHL teams giving ~8 different Swedes top 2 ice time?

Ra: They are only good offensively. Give me Heinola and Niemelainen over all the Swedish defensemen.

— How are Brodin and Forsling bad defensively?

Ra: Ignores the question, tells someone ridiculing him that he actually wants a civilized (note he doesn’t say constructive) discussion and that long lost are the days of Tommy Albelin who he thinks was an awesome defender because he scored very few points as a bottom pairing defenseman.

etc.

I mean.. did you have to bring Jiricek and Kral into it?

 

[Czechboy]

The US is nowhere near Canada. Give me their lineup.

There is a thread here for them and, on paper, they look just as strong. Elite D, elite F and elite G. Eichel is a 4c to put it in perspective.

I'm not staying they are better but on paper they are amazing.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Here’s how it works:

Ra: Why ppl saying Sweden has good defensemen, they suck defensively? Give me this list of fringe Finnish, Slovak and Czech NHL defensemen with zero points and 6 min TOI avg over Hedman and Karlsson who only score points.

— Why is Hedman played 25-30 min per game on back-to-back Cup champs if he sucks?

Ra: Because he’s only good offensively. Give me Jiricek and Kral over Hedman.

— Why are these Swedes playing top 2 minutes ES and on the PK on good NHL teams if they suck defensively?

Ra: Välimäki, Knazko over offensive defensemen Ekholm and Larsson.

— Why are NHL teams giving ~8 different Swedes top 2 ice time?

Ra: They are only good offensively. Give me Heinola and Niemelainen over all the Swedish defensemen.

— How are Brodin and Forsling bad defensively?

Ra: Ignores the question, tells someone ridiculing him that he actually wants a civilized (note he doesn’t say constructive) discussion and that long lost are the days of Tommy Albelin who he thinks was an awesome defender because he scored very few points as a bottom pairing defenseman.

etc.

Its aboslutly possible for a NHL team to play players alot that sucks defensivly even if they are great offensivly.

btw 2 users who agree with me is @Miro4Norris and @THE JAM why dont you take the debate with them?

 

[Eye of Ra]

The US is nowhere near Canada. Give me their lineup.

you are obviously not following NHL.

user rabid ranger had a good take:

Goaltenders (x3):

Starter: Connor Hellebucyk
Back-up: Jake Oettenger
3rd stringer: One of Thatcher Demko or Jeremy Swayman

Defensemen (x8):

Adam Fox-Charlie McAvoy
Jaccob Slavin-Brett Pesce
Quinn Hughes-John Marino
Zach Werenski-Mikey Anderson

Forwards (x12):

Matthew Tkachuk-Auston Matthews-Johnny Gaudreau
Jason Robertson-Jack Eichel-Kyle Connor
J.T. Miller-Tage Thompson-Jack Hughes
Jake Guentzel-Dylan Larkin-Brady Tkachuk
Extras: Clayton Keller and Alex Tuch

 

[jfc64]

thats only because there is many more swedes in NHL than finns. if you look per capita, top players, then finns are stronger than sweden. and also if you look at defending skills the finns smokes us. Dont just look at points...

Finland and Sweden are very similar when it comes to per capita. But I see your viewpoint. Provoke! We are going to be huge underdogs in World Cup in 2025.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Finland and Sweden are very similar when it comes to per capita.

What is defending skills?

defending skills is what it sounds like, how good you are at defending. How good you are in your own zone. We dont have any Oduya, Hjalmarsson, Mattias Norström, Ragnarsson, Ulf and Kjell Samuelsson and Öhlund types anymore.

I mean.. did you have to bring Jiricek and Kral into it?

Speaking of young czechs, Galvas will play for Malmö. What can you tell me about him? Should i have high expectations?

 

[jfc64]

Defensemen

Here’s how it works:

Ra: Why ppl saying Sweden has good defensemen, they suck defensively? Give me this list of fringe Finnish, Slovak and Czech NHL defensemen with zero points and 6 min TOI avg over Hedman and Karlsson who only score points.

— Why is Hedman played 25-30 min per game on back-to-back Cup champs if he sucks?

Ra: Because he’s only good offensively. Give me Jiricek and Kral over Hedman.

— Why are these Swedes playing top 2 minutes ES and on the PK on good NHL teams if they suck defensively?

Ra: Välimäki, Knazko over offensive defensemen Ekholm and Larsson.

— Why are NHL teams giving ~8 different Swedes top 2 ice time?

Ra: They are only good offensively. Give me Heinola and Niemelainen over all the Swedish defensemen.

— How are Brodin and Forsling bad defensively?

Ra: Ignores the question, tells someone ridiculing him that he actually wants a civilized (note he doesn’t say constructive) discussion and that long lost are the days of Tommy Albelin who he thinks was an awesome defender because he scored very few points as a bottom pairing defenseman.

etc.

Ra get what he wants. People defending swedes.

 

[Czechboy]

defending skills is what it sounds like, how good you are at defending. How good you are in your own zone. We dont have any Oduya, Hjalmarsson, Mattias Norström, Ragnarsson, Ulf and Kjell Samuelsson and Öhlund types anymore.


Speaking of young czechs, Galvas will play for Malmö. What can you tell me about him? Should i have high expectations?

Yes you should... He should've been at world championship for us. He will be an excellent euro defender... I think he may even use it to get back to NHL. He as a good upside but is small.

 

[YippieKaey]

you are obviously not following NHL.

user rabid ranger had a good take:

Goaltenders (x3):

Starter: Connor Hellebucyk
Back-up: Jake Oettenger
3rd stringer: One of Thatcher Demko or Jeremy Swayman

Defensemen (x8):

Adam Fox-Charlie McAvoy
Jaccob Slavin-Brett Pesce
Quinn Hughes-John Marino
Zach Werenski-Mikey Anderson

Forwards (x12):

Matthew Tkachuk-Auston Matthews-Johnny Gaudreau
Jason Robertson-Jack Eichel-Kyle Connor
J.T. Miller-Tage Thompson-Jack Hughes
Jake Guentzel-Dylan Larkin-Brady Tkachuk
Extras: Clayton Keller and Alex Tuch

Actually you make a good point here. I underestimated the US. However, Sweden is very much still a top 6 nation. Any hockey fan knows this.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Its aboslutly possible for a NHL team to play players alot that sucks defensivly even if they are great offensivly.

btw 2 users who agree with me is @Miro4Norris and @THE JAM why dont you take the debate with them?

You seem to look at a defenseman’s points and if they’re plentiful, you conclude he must suck in his own end. That’s literally your only argument: they can score points but they can’t defend. Lidström was the highest scoring defenseman multiple times, thus he sucked defensively.

The annoying thing with you however is that you selectively ignore others countering arguments and continue pounding and pounding away on your obnoxious singular point, which doesn’t actually make any sense to people who have watched the players.

And Miro4Norris and THEJAM are biased trolls who are difficult to take seriously.

 

[NyQuil]

There is a thread here for them and, on paper, they look just as strong. Elite D, elite F and elite G. Eichel is a 4c to put it in perspective.

I'm not staying they are better but on paper they are amazing.

I think the US is as strong as they’ve ever been, maybe since 1996, maybe all-time.

This is what makes the lack of a true best on best tournament so bizarre.

The NHL is missing a golden opportunity to build up some belief in the national programme in the States.

When I look at Canada, I find our goaltending and maybe our depth at D concerning.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Hilarious thread

Best on best their defense can match either Canada and USA, that's why

 

[jfc64]

thats only because there is many more swedes in NHL than finns. if you look per capita, top players, then finns are stronger than sweden. and also if you look at defending skills the finns smokes us. Dont just look at points...

Sweden have more top players so they end up more often in NHL...

 

[jfc64]

defending skills is what it sounds like, how good you are at defending. How good you are in your own zone. We dont have any Oduya, Hjalmarsson, Mattias Norström, Ragnarsson, Ulf and Kjell Samuelsson and Öhlund types anymore.

Hampus Lindholm, Victor Hedman, Rasmus Andersson, Mattias Ekholm, Adam Larsson, Jonas Brodin, Simon Edvinsson.

Just MAYBEE oldskool defensemen are wasted in the offense today.

Hampus Lindholm - Jonas Brodin
Victor Hedman - Rasmus Andersson
Mattias Ekholm - Adam Larsson
Simon Edvinsson -

 

[boxbox]

Sweden can ice a team full of NHL talent ranging from GOOD at the very worst, commonly present VERY GOOD to few ELITE

 

[Postulates]

Sweden has basically been guaranteed silver at minimum at the u18s with Canada having the memorial cup Finland not producing talent and Russia being banned

 

[Postulates]

Here's a potential roster for Sweden if all players come to the WC:

Landeskog-Petterson-Nylander
Bratt-Zibanejad-Kempe
Arvidsson-Lindholm-Burakovsky
Forsberg-Backlund-Raymond

Hedman-Karlsson
Lindholm-Dahlin
Ekholm-Andersson

Ullmark
Gustavsson


So a couple of 100 point players, some high scoring and two way defensemen and good goalies. Team USA and Team Finland are not at this level even though Finland are close (they lose out on defense though).

So relax. The WC is usually won by the teams that get the most of their good players to come play. There, a case can be made that Sweden has some problems.

These players dont make a Team USA best on best roster if they were American

 

[Eye of Ra]

Sweden has basically been guaranteed silver at minimum at the u18s with Canada having the memorial cup Finland not producing talent and Russia being banned

sweden took the gold 2019 with russia in it.

 

[Postulates]

The US is nowhere near Canada. Give me their lineup.

if NHL goes back to Olympics, what would USA roster look like?

Seems to me like the USA is deeper than it's ever been and is loaded with skill. Best collection of talent I've ever seen. If NHL goes back to Olympics what do you think the USA team would look like top to bottom?

forums.hfboards.com

Something like this I would put Hughes on the top line with Tkachuk and Matthews though all 3 of them would be Sweden's best forward

USA would have a massive advantage in net over team Canada that negates the forward difference that isnt as big as people think

 

[Eye of Ra]

These players dont make a Team USA best on best roster if they were American

and neither would they make canada, russia and finland. perhaps not even czechia.

Just MAYBEE oldskool defensemen are wasted in the offense today.

yeah, but my point was that we have no defenders who is good at defending. our d-core is even far behind czechia, germany, slovakia, swiss etc. its our forwards and goalies that gives us a chance to be in tier 2.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Hilarious thread

Best on best their defense can match either Canada and USA, that's why

How when even Finland and Czechia have much stronger d-core than Sweden?

 

[Bouboumaster]

How when even Finland and Czechia have much stronger d-core than Sweden?

I do not agree at all about that statement lol

Finland have a solid team, but Sweden's defense is pretty much untouchable, unless you're talking Canada and USA

Czechia is not there yet IMO

 

[erikhamren]

I give it 1 more year, we have a strong chance at JVM gold this year, if we dont win JVM or taking atleast bronze next VM, we swedes start rioting

 

[DatDude44]

Sweden has not made semifinals in WC since 2018. Even losing to the likes of Latvia now.

No gold in U20 since 2012.

Not as good players in NHL as Canada, USA, Finland and Russia.

Its pretty clear that top 4 is Canada, USA, Finland, Russia and that this 4 nations are in a league of their own. Then its tier 2 with Czechia, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Slovakia.

Of course with Russia not in anymore, its Canada, USA and Finland....but if they where, they would be just as good.

People need to stop talking about "big 7" or "big 6" , Canada, USA, Finland and Russia are far ahead of Czechia, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland and Slovakia at everything.

Hopefully we can have a serious and civil debate about this topic.

Brutal take. Sweden is 100% in tier 1 in everything. Who cares about a 2nd tier tourney that doesn’t remotely include the true best on best each country has to offer

 

[Eye of Ra]

Brutal take. Sweden is 100% in tier 1 in everything. Who cares about a 2nd tier tourney that doesn’t remotely include the true best on best each country has to offer

Because it shows how good depth a country has. And with no best on best, WC are held in higher regard.