TSN: What's holding up Kopitar's new contract? (MOD WARNING) post #205

[KINGS17]

I guess I've been unreasonable in our several months of discussion and haven't backed up my ideas at all.



No, the concern Kopitar has is he's a rental UFA asking for Toews money but may be declining. Regardless of Kovalchuk's position and 'concerns,' let's not pretend his value in a trade would be vastly less than Kopitar's somehow. There's no 'basis' because it's not often guys like this are on the block (with good reason), I'm just trying to draw comparables because it seems like people think we're going to just sling Kopitar for a king's ransom and remain competitive.



They wouldn't, they'd be in the same boat we are in right now, ironically...but if they're 'all in' now as is reported...



I already said that. Any team trading for Kopitar isn't looking at him as a pure rental, they're looking to sign him. Doesn't necessarily increase his trade value.

Montreal wouldn't give Galchenyuk because then they run the risk of losing Galchenyuk forever AND Kopitar after the season and it's a major setback. Suddenly, Plekanec is your #1 center and you have nothing behind him of substance. Jeez, look how many people were broken up over losing Roland ****ing McKeown around here!

It's just a lot riskier than you've made it sound.

Brad, this wouldn't happen, and I think you know that. No deal happens without some backroom discussion regarding a signing. Any team acquiring Kopitar knows his price. Please stop with the garbage about it being a huge risk that they would lose Kopitar. The acquiring team would be getting Kopitar for 8.5 seasons, unfortunately for them after about 3 seasons.

 

[HYORI 1963]

now this is childish, embarassing posting...

I was half kidding.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Brad, this wouldn't happen, and I think you know that. No deal happens without some backroom discussion regarding a signing. Any team acquiring Kopitar knows his price. Please stop with the garbage about it being a huge risk that they would lose Kopitar. The acquiring team would be getting Kopitar for 8.5 seasons, unfortunately for them after about 3 seasons.

There are no guarantees. It's not 'garbage', it IS a risk. Did you ever consider that Kopitar might not be a King? I don't think anyone ever considered it a serious possibility until maybe this time last year. I remember reading around the time of the Gaborik trade that it's actually more frequent that teams DONT get to talk to agent/player and discuss an extension than it is they actually talk it over. Now, is it likely they trade for him knowing damn well his demands and intend to sign him? Absolutely. You're speaking like it's a 100% foregone certainty that whoever trades for Kopitar is getting an 8-year contract; maybe he doesn't like it there and refuses to sign, who knows?

It's not going to be a Kings ransom.

But you have a problem admitting, that it won't be a (underwhelming) package either. Is the package going to return Kopitar ? No, Someone like Kopitar ? NO!, a stop gap ? Maybe.

I don't at all have a problem admitting that. I would say, just like just about every other mid-season trade of a UFA, that it's much more likely that we'll be underwhelmed and left trying to justify such a trade than be thrilled with the return. It will most likely include a stopgap, I don't doubt that, we're not going to roll Shore as a 2C. I guess all I'm saying is I doubt we see an 'offer DL can't refuse' sort of thing out there.

I'd actually be very interested to see how many trade returns that didn't turn into a long-term signing people are happy with. It can't be many. Look at the reaction around here to Sekera. Luckily for us, Carter was signed long term, Regehr stuck around, and Gaborik got his extention for better or worse, and that we won cups from those. If you don't get a cup, and you don't re-sign the guy, the assets hurt, and people turn quickly, again using Sekera as an example (and even reaction to the Lucic trade before the season!).

 

[Ron*]

Even if Kopi were to get traded, whoever said we can't re-sign him when he comes crawling back, begging to be a King again. I think Kopi just need to experience a stint with another team, before he realizes how good he has/had it here in LA.

now this is childish, embarassing posting...

I actually have no idea what he is talking about.

Is he talking about Kopi coming back, begging to be a King again?

Or fans who said he can't come back?

Confused.

 

[likid]

People will realize what Kopitar meant for Kings, when he won't play for them anymore...

 

[Basilisk]

Kopi for Shea Weber?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Kopi for Shea Weber?

Doesn't make a lot of financial sense for Nashville to trade Weber anymore. And we would have to add. Quite a bit (a higher end prospect, maybe someone like Zykov).

And that still leaves us with Carter-Shore-Lewis down the middle. Ain't winning a cup with that, no matter how good the defense looks.

Edit: really can't be overstated how much Richards' decline screwed this team down the middle.

 

[Kings4thecup]

I agree Kopitar is starting his decline, but maybe not as severe as some opinions on here. In the most recent games, Kopitar has looked better. He seems to be finally looking for his shot more. He still has the ability to skate to the middle and get a great chance with a really good shot, but since Gaborik has been here, he seems to like to float on the outside and look for the pass too much. Coaching staff must have finally got through to him. He's always been a little streaky too, as most players are.
I agree that if you trade Kopitar, you re giving up on this group. I still feel they can be competitive with a little tweaking for a few years, so I'm against trading him, but I totally see the logic in it. If it takes 80M to keep him here, I think you just deal with it, and when you're in full rebuild mode, you can start clearing contracts while you suck. There is still the possibility of him leveling out at a 55-60 point, defensively solid 1C. Take your chances to try and compete now. Who knows how long it will take to be competitive again.

 

[TruKingFan]

I agree as well.

Does Lombard want to start the rebuild early, or take two more shots at it, while ruining his cap structure for the next Five years ?

Looks like he is choosing the shots at the cup, with a ruined cap down the line.

It is, what it is.

He's probably looking at the league expansion to perhaps help him get cap relief with exposing some of the high contract players or more compliance buyouts. I'm pretty sure he's learned his lesson with that.

 

[KINGS17]

He's probably looking at the league expansion to perhaps help him get cap relief with exposing some of the high contract players or more compliance buyouts. I'm pretty sure he's learned his lesson with that.

Please explain how NHL expansion improves the salary cap situation over the long haul? I'm looking forward to this one.

Expansion GMs are not going to be any fonder of bad contracts than other GMs. They certainly aren't going to waste their expansion picks with players on those contracts.

 

[KINGS17]

Why for forming their opinion that you don't agree with? Pretty childish.

I hope Kopi goes on a tear for years to come but it won't give me any satisfaction if he doesn't live up to his contact.

I feel this way as well, but I am not counting on him getting better. History suggests that just doesn't happen, especially in today's NHL. Kopitar would be great as a 1B/1A with Carter if he takes a contract with an AAV that allows the Kings to add another piece or two that would give them legit shots at cups for the next two or three seasons.

 

[TruKingFan]

Please explain how NHL expansion improves the salary cap situation over the long haul? I'm looking forward to this one.

I didn't guarantee it would - perhaps he exposes vets who have these contracts to the draft and perhaps taken. If not, obviously it doesn't help the Kings. And that's why I threw out the compliance buyouts. Just thinking out loud Kings hockey guru…

And for the record, I don't mind Kopi traded but that's a big hole to fill, like another poster said for perhaps $2M per year max.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I feel this way as well, but I am not counting on him getting better. History suggests that just doesn't happen, especially in today's NHL. Kopitar would be great as a 1B/1A with Carter if he takes a contract with an AAV that allows the Kings to add another piece or two that would give them legit shots at cups for the next two or three seasons.

In your wildest dreams, in which the Kings trade for Galchenyuk and sign X free agent with the Kopitar cap void, do you really think we're that much closer to a Cup than we are right now?

Our cap problems begin and end with one Dustin Brown. Throw Gaborik on that pile, too. With all the tireless defense of Brown's abysmal production from people like you over the years, it shocks me that 20 mediocre games from Kopitar has you abandoning ship.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Kopi's exact playing style is built to last.

 

[KINGS17]

In your wildest dreams, in which the Kings trade for Galchenyuk and sign X free agent with the Kopitar cap void, do you really think we're that much closer to a Cup than we are right now?

Our cap problems begin and end with one Dustin Brown. Throw Gaborik on that pile, too. With all the tireless defense of Brown's abysmal production from people like you over the years, it shocks me that 20 mediocre games from Kopitar has you abandoning ship.

That isn't what I said in the post you quoted. Try re-reading it.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

That isn't what I said in the post you quoted. Try re-reading it.

That's fine. I was going off previous posts.

But the question still stands, if Kopitar signs for 7 or so million instead of 9, what 2-3 million extra piece puts us that much more over the edge?

I just disagree there. This team is already about as good as it's gonna get with the core players we have. No complimentary 2-3 million depth forward or defenseman will make that much more of an impact. What historical example are you basing this on?

That's the big thing I disagree with you about here. You seem to believe - and correct me if I'm wrong - that the Kings can save a couple million in cap on this Kopitar deal, or rid themselves of him entirely, and still contend over the next two years. I really disagree. 2-3 in cap won't bring in a player who will change the dynamic of the team that drastically, and even with 7 million in cap lying around, there's not an available player out there right now who can fill his shoes.

 

[123slam]

If we are gonna spend this much on Kopi, I'd rather trade him + more for Malkin. And I'm the biggest Kopi supporter on this board. Carter is almost as defensively sound as Kopi is these days (still Kopi has the edge). I like throwing **** at the fire.

 

[KINGS17]

That's fine. I was going off previous posts.

But the question still stands, if Kopitar signs for 7 or so million instead of 9, what 2-3 million extra piece puts us that much more over the edge?

I just disagree there. This team is already about as good as it's gonna get with the core players we have. No complimentary 2-3 million depth forward or defenseman will make that much more of an impact. What historical example are you basing this on?

That's the big thing I disagree with you about here. You seem to believe - and correct me if I'm wrong - that the Kings can save a couple million in cap on this Kopitar deal, or rid themselves of him entirely, and still contend over the next two years. I really disagree. 2-3 in cap won't bring in a player who will change the dynamic of the team that drastically, and even with 7 million in cap lying around, there's not an available player out there right now who can fill his shoes.

I don't think I ever said the Kings are cup contenders if Kopitar goes.

What I said in one post was if the Kings had:

Carter
Galchenyuk
Kempe
Shore

down the middle that wouldn't be bad. If fact it would be pretty good. I don't think the Kings are contenders with Kopitar making $9M+ AAV because it limits Dean's flexibility.

You want to get rid of Brown's contract and maybe bring in a shutdown defenseman or a 3C? Then you have to eat some of Brown's cap hit. Every dollar that isn't spent on Kopitar's AAV makes something along those lines that much easier.

 

[scryan]

Kopi's exact playing style is built to last.

Obvious with how much time he takes off throughout the season

 

[TruKingFan]

Please explain how NHL expansion improves the salary cap situation over the long haul? I'm looking forward to this one.

Expansion GMs are not going to be any fonder of bad contracts than other GMs. They certainly aren't going to waste their expansion picks with players on those contracts.

Your guess is just as good as anyone. Including Dean's. I'm just saying there are downsides to all scenarios - including yours.

 

[KINGS17]

Your guess is just as good as anyone. Including Dean's. I'm just saying there are downsides to all scenarios - including yours.

I don't think I am guessing. Expansion GMs are not going to draft players like Brown or Gaborik. The Kings are going to lose guys like Clifford, King, or Martinez.

Any expansion GM with half a clue will trade for a player like Brown, but they will insist on prospects and or picks in the package, and the Kings will get very little in return.

Meanwhile in your mind, a sub-50 point Kopitar is worth $72M+ over 8 more years after this one.

Kopi's exact playing style is built to last.

Yes, I expect Anze will get 40 - 55 points for years to come.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So what you're saying is we should hand out MORE bad contracts so all of our unprotected players will be high salaries

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Maybe Dean will present Kopitar with a Christmas present, and in turn Kopitar will return the favor by accepting it.

 

[Trolfoli]

Maybe Dean will present Kopitar with a Christmas present, and in turn Kopitar will return the favor by accepting it.

Then going on his annual hibernation.

 

[KINGS17]

So what you're saying is we should hand out MORE bad contracts so all of our unprotected players will be high salaries

Exactly, that way Vegas will take Kopitar when Dean doesn't protect him.

Kopitar was awesome against Chicago tonight with 2 shots on goal, which for him is the norm and sustainable (kind of pathetic, but sustainable). Meanwhile, Carter with goal and 7 shots on goal.