What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

[NMacrules]

Now that I like, especially if we don't have to retain.

I could be wrong also, could be New Jersey the Preds are looking at.

 

[MisterT]

Matthews and Nylander have shown enough chips down presence on the ice to indicate if they get the right mixture, they could win. MM and slow JT just dont give me that at all. I see big cap poor D and a lacking Tender.

Points per game in the playoffs:
Tavares 0.632 (as a Leaf)
Nylander 0.782
Matthews 0.873
Marner 0.877

I get that Marner's east/west style of playing is infuriating as hell and unlikely to ever be success in the post-season, but he is the best producer in the playoffs of the core 4. I'm also all for moving Marner in a trade to balance the roster but if that doesn't arise, have a Plan B. Beat the market to death exploring a Tavares trade once his bonus is paid on July 1st. After removing the captaincy from him and informing JT that there is no appetite to bring him back, so go prove your value elsewhere. If he wants to continue his career, ice time and opportunity to re-establish value are his best options.
This team needs a reset, not a strip-down rebuilding.

 

[ULF_55]

There's no way Marner can be on the team in June 2025 on the cusp of being a UFA without an extension. All the leverage would be his. Leafs have to decide how they plan to go forward with him soon.

All the leverage is his today.

Signing him is their best easiest option.
Negotiating with him on a move while under contract is likely, but that would be under his terms.

 

[ULF_55]

Points per game in the playoffs:
Tavares 0.632 (as a Leaf)
Nylander 0.782
Matthews 0.873
Marner 0.877

I get that Marner's east/west style of playing is infuriating as hell and unlikely to ever be success in the post-season, but he is the best producer in the playoffs of the core 4. I'm also all for moving Marner in a trade to balance the roster but if that doesn't arise, have a Plan B. Beat the market to death exploring a Tavares trade once his bonus is paid on July 1st. After removing the captaincy from him and informing JT that there is no appetite to bring him back, so go prove your value elsewhere. If he wants to continue his career, ice time and opportunity to re-establish value are his best options.
This team needs a reset, not a strip-down rebuilding.

RIP

wade belak on making 100 points - Google Suche

30 goals 40 assists, 100 points

Everyone knows goals worth twice as much as assists.

 

[frizzer1]

if they can get Tavares to waive, they could keep Marner.
But they absolutely cannot give him a NMC on an extension.

 

[ULF_55]

if they can get Tavares to waive, they could keep Marner.
But they absolutely cannot give him a NMC on an extension.

You actually have the slightest belief marner won't get a NMC?

Honestly, you know that isn't happening right?

Here is the pressure they can apply.

1. No letter on sweater.
2. Less ice time (minor decrease) but you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
3. Replaced on the PK.
4. Put on the 2nd. PP unit (see 2 above)

 

[Antropovsky]

Points per game in the playoffs:
Tavares 0.632 (as a Leaf)
Nylander 0.782
Matthews 0.873
Marner 0.877

I get that Marner's east/west style of playing is infuriating as hell and unlikely to ever be success in the post-season, but he is the best producer in the playoffs of the core 4. I'm also all for moving Marner in a trade to balance the roster but if that doesn't arise, have a Plan B. Beat the market to death exploring a Tavares trade once his bonus is paid on July 1st. After removing the captaincy from him and informing JT that there is no appetite to bring him back, so go prove your value elsewhere. If he wants to continue his career, ice time and opportunity to re-establish value are his best options.
This team needs a reset, not a strip-down rebuilding.

Now do goals per game. How does Marners linemates pick up assists if he isn't scoring lol. He had 8 5vs5 shots in 7 games this past postseason.

 

[MisterT]

Now do goals per game.

Why? Unfortunately I know someone has to drive the play so that the opportunities are there for those who are supposed to finish since this is, after all, a team game.

 

[Leafsfan74]

if they can get Tavares to waive, they could keep Marner.
But they absolutely cannot give him a NMC on an extension.

No, they cannot keep Marner. He will be the first to go one way or another. This is a critical time for this franchise no question. Cowan may even fill in his position in a year or two.

I'd rather they re-sign JT on a much lower contract (hometown discount?) and make him the 3rd Line Centre while handing the C to Matthews, pick up a younger 2nd Line Centre and try and roll 4 lines.

Ultimately, losing both Marner and JT is probably the right approach though.

You cannot roll four lines with this salary structure, it is impossible.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I don't think they can play hardball with Mitch during the season. Taking away ice time, taking him off the PP, all pretty bad looks on management and coaching. You have to sit him down and have a man to boy conversation.

Only carrot you can dangle is that additional year on the extension. You tell him he's not getting a contract from the Leafs, that's around $12M he'd be leaving on the table if he decides to stay.

 

[Fogelhund]

No, they cannot keep Marner. He will be the first to go one way or another. This is a critical time for this franchise no question. Cowan may even fill in his position in a year or two.

I'd rather they re-sign JT on a much lower contract (hometown discount?) and make him the 3rd Line Centre while handing the C to Matthews, pick up a younger 2nd Line Centre and try and roll 4 lines.

Ultimately, losing both Marner and JT is probably the right approach though.

You cannot roll four lines with this salary structure, it is impossible.

I love what Cowan's done for the Knights, but it is highly improbable that he will ever "fill Marner's position". He might be a very good Leaf, but he won't have the talent Marner has... might have more drive... hopefully.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I love what Cowan's done for the Knights, but it is highly improbable that he will ever "fill Marner's position". He might be a very good Leaf, but he won't have the talent Marner has... might have more drive... hopefully.

There is no way Cowan has Mitch's skill, there's also no way Cowan has less drive than Mitch.

 

[GoonieFace]

Points per game in the playoffs:
Tavares 0.632 (as a Leaf)
Nylander 0.782
Matthews 0.873
Marner 0.877

I get that Marner's east/west style of playing is infuriating as hell and unlikely to ever be success in the post-season, but he is the best producer in the playoffs of the core 4. I'm also all for moving Marner in a trade to balance the roster but if that doesn't arise, have a Plan B. Beat the market to death exploring a Tavares trade once his bonus is paid on July 1st. After removing the captaincy from him and informing JT that there is no appetite to bring him back, so go prove your value elsewhere. If he wants to continue his career, ice time and opportunity to re-establish value are his best options.
This team needs a reset, not a strip-down rebuilding.

What big playoff moment has involved Marner? How many of those points have any significance in the series? You can’t just look at points.

 

[Fogelhund]

There is no way Cowan has Mitch's skill, there's also no way Cowan has less drive than Mitch.

My opinion on Mitch, is that he has drive, but he can't handle the pressure. I think he puts too much pressure on himself, being a Toronto kid, and knowing what success would mean as a Toronto kid. I think he freezes up, and stops playing the way Mitch can in the regular season. Given the time he's been here, it's clear that he can't adjust, probably never will. It's probably best for him, and us, for him to relocate to a place without that pressure... and chances are he thrives there. Or maybe he just can't handle the pressure anywhere.

I could be wrong... but that's just how I see it.

 

[Antropovsky]

Why? Unfortunately I know someone has to drive the play so that the opportunities are there for those who are supposed to finish since this is, after all, a team game.

So you're of the impression that the play is always driven by the player with an assist?

 

[ULF_55]

Last 5 years playoffs
Ordered by Belak Point System

Player	S/C	Pos	GP	G	A	P	BelakPoints
William Nylander	R	R	34	17	15	32	49
Auston Matthews	L	C	35	13	22	35	48
Mitch Marner	R	R	37	6	27	33	39
Morgan Rielly	L	D	37	9	16	25	34
John Tavares	L	C	31	10	9	19	29
Alex Kerfoot	L	C	30	4	9	13	17
Ryan O'Reilly	L	C	11	3	6	9	12
Matthew Knies	L	L	14	3	4	7	10
Jake Muzzin	L	D	15	4	2	6	10
Jason Spezza	R	C	17	3	3	6	9
David Kampf	L	C	25	3	3	6	9
TJ Brodie	L	D	26	1	6	7	8
Michael Bunting	L	L	13	2	3	5	7
Zach Hyman	R	L	12	2	2	4	6
Ilya Mikheyev	L	R	19	2	2	4	6
Alex Galchenyuk	L	C	6	1	3	4	5
Tyler Bertuzzi	L	L	7	1	3	4	5
Max Domi	L	C	7	1	3	4	5

 

[TorMapleJays]

Don’t sit him, make him play all 82 on the 3rd line with no PP time and first PK time. See how much his pay cheque next summer drops with a 55 point season and a noted bad attitude on his resume. We can spin this in the media how WE want to we own them lol.

What movie is that from. I was trying to recall it. A player who is having a contract dispute and wanted a trade, where as the manager said we’re not going to trade you, we’re going to play you, and if you suck, who is going to pay a guy who sucks that fat retirement contract you’re looking for…

Baseball movie.

What is a Belak point system ?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Mitch Marner

R

R

37

6

27

33

39

6 goals ?

not interested.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yeah you have a point but I think Marner deserves a chance to show what he can do in new system and environment with Berube. If he wants to be here so bad he will find a way to evolve. It's not without possibility.

I can pretty much guarantee that JT will still be here for the coming year, so it will be a limbo as far as serious improvements go. That being the case, I don't have a real objection to Marner staying to see if Berube can get more out of him.

 

[horner]

Dman dman dman

 

[GoonieFace]

My opinion on Mitch, is that he has drive, but he can't handle the pressure. I think he puts too much pressure on himself, being a Toronto kid, and knowing what success would mean as a Toronto kid. I think he freezes up, and stops playing the way Mitch can in the regular season. Given the time he's been here, it's clear that he can't adjust, probably never will. It's probably best for him, and us, for him to relocate to a place without that pressure... and chances are he thrives there. Or maybe he just can't handle the pressure anywhere.

I could be wrong... but that's just how I see it.

I just don’t think he has the speed and strength when things tighten up, and he definitely does not have the drive to fight through it like other smaller players would.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Last 5 years playoffs
Ordered by Belak Point System

Player	S/C	Pos	GP	G	A	P	BelakPoints
William Nylander	R	R	34	17	15	32	49
Auston Matthews	L	C	35	13	22	35	48
Mitch Marner	R	R	37	6	27	33	39
Morgan Rielly	L	D	37	9	16	25	34
John Tavares	L	C	31	10	9	19	29
Alex Kerfoot	L	C	30	4	9	13	17
Ryan O'Reilly	L	C	11	3	6	9	12
Matthew Knies	L	L	14	3	4	7	10
Jake Muzzin	L	D	15	4	2	6	10
Jason Spezza	R	C	17	3	3	6	9
David Kampf	L	C	25	3	3	6	9
TJ Brodie	L	D	26	1	6	7	8
Michael Bunting	L	L	13	2	3	5	7
Zach Hyman	R	L	12	2	2	4	6
Ilya Mikheyev	L	R	19	2	2	4	6
Alex Galchenyuk	L	C	6	1	3	4	5
Tyler Bertuzzi	L	L	7	1	3	4	5
Max Domi	L	C	7	1	3	4	5

Why the last 5 years? Don't cherrypick bro.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I can pretty much guarantee that JT will still be here for the coming year, so it will be a limbo as far as serious improvements go. That being the case, I don't have a real objection to Marner staying to see if Berube can get more out of him.

After 8 years "give him another go with a new system"? Keefe WAS the new system.

There is no system that can change a players DNA. At his price tag it is and always was an easy pass for me.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Last 5 years playoffs
Ordered by Belak Point System

Player	S/C	Pos	GP	G	A	P	BelakPoints
William Nylander	R	R	34	17	15	32	49
Auston Matthews	L	C	35	13	22	35	48
Mitch Marner	R	R	37	6	27	33	39
Morgan Rielly	L	D	37	9	16	25	34
John Tavares	L	C	31	10	9	19	29
Alex Kerfoot	L	C	30	4	9	13	17
Ryan O'Reilly	L	C	11	3	6	9	12
Matthew Knies	L	L	14	3	4	7	10
Jake Muzzin	L	D	15	4	2	6	10
Jason Spezza	R	C	17	3	3	6	9
David Kampf	L	C	25	3	3	6	9
TJ Brodie	L	D	26	1	6	7	8
Michael Bunting	L	L	13	2	3	5	7
Zach Hyman	R	L	12	2	2	4	6
Ilya Mikheyev	L	R	19	2	2	4	6
Alex Galchenyuk	L	C	6	1	3	4	5
Tyler Bertuzzi	L	L	7	1	3	4	5
Max Domi	L	C	7	1	3	4	5

Add a Belak ppg column and it looks even worse.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why the last 5 years? Don't cherrypick bro.

Career, relevant range, or recency - I don't think it will make much difference.

Why don't you pick a time span.