What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

[arso40]

Then how are you ignoring the fact that he was our leading forward last year?

Weird because he actually has more points per game in playoffs than any other forwards with the leafs
Marner .87 (Playing 2 more games than Matthews)
Matthews .87
Nylander .78

I didn't even include Tavares. He has never had a point per game playoff series with the leafs

Unlike all those players, Marner kills penalties in playoffs

Those are not nothing. If you are going to trade him for picks, yet keep Tavares contract, that's true poor management if I ever saw one

More like than not, I think you are going to see Marner stay with the Leafs and leafs will try to move Tavares

Why must we continue with the killing penalties he's not too successful at.that from what I've seen and when the games matter he doesn't show up yes he has the most points but I believe he has the least in thee bacc end of the series and he has seemed rather stagnant we gave him his last contract expecting improvement to which I don't believe has been seen and im sure even you'll agree he's not worth his current cap hit

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

If Marner doesn't waive they're hooped.

The only thing they can do is run it all back with the same losers who have failed so miserably already. I really hope nobody thinks signing another plug to replace Samsonov will put this team over the top. Because that's clearly not the case.

Shitty goaltending is only part of the problem.

The rest are things like poor roster construction and cap allocation. Along with a team of entitled players who think they are above reproach. Culture starts with a team's leaders.

This team does have a long standing culture.

It's called Blue'n'White disease. The culture of entitled millionaire hockey players employed by the Toronto Maple Leafs. With Marner a leader in that regards.

Until they find a way to get him off the team nothing will change.

 

[Leafs87]

With Marner hiring private security because of social media outlast, it tells me he’s a very delicate guy. Just make it abundantly clear just how unwanted he is here and he’ll waive to save himself going through the year under that environment. Next if he still doesn’t waive take away PP mins and make him PK only. Play him with Kampf and Jarnkrok. He’ll waive eventually.

 

[BM14]

He plays on the 4th line with Reaves and DeWar.

f*** him and his FA contract next year with those 2 on his line.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

So many Leaf fans are full of hate and delusion they are turning into hockey Karen's without realizing it. We should realize more than any other fan base that just because we get 11 million dollars in cap space doesn't mean we will get anywhere close to the production we get from Marner. And that includes the playoffs where his numbers arent great but they're still better than the zeroes some scrubs might put up in his place. 50 in 57 is .88 points per game and +10.

Unless we have a concrete replacement for Marner I'm not giving up on him for magic beans and players who may be decent elsewhere but flounder and don't perform at all once in the fish bowl of Toronto. Look at Bertuzzi he had a deer in the headlights glaze on his face for 4 months before getting his shit together. He looked like dead cap space before snapping out of it .

 

[ACC1224]

So many Leaf fans are full of hate and delusion they are turning into hockey Karen's without realizing it. We should realize more than any other fan base that just because we get 11 million dollars in cap space doesn't mean we will get anywhere close to the production we get from Marner. And that includes the playoffs where his numbers arent great but they're still better than the zeroes some scrubs might put up in his place. 50 in 57 is .88 points per game and +10.

Unless we have a concrete replacement for Marner I'm not giving up on him for magic beans and players who may be decent elsewhere but flounder and don't perform at all once in the fish bowl of Toronto. Look at Bertuzzi he had a deer in the headlights glaze on his face for 4 months before getting his shit together. He looked like dead cap space before snapping out of it .

No one takes these idiotic strategies of benchings or limited ice time seriously. No team would employ such a childish approach and spite themselves. I guess the naivety of the thought could be considered a little cute.

This isn’t a ‘addition by subtraction’ scenario that we see posted here daily, over and over again. If he’s asked and if he’s moved, it’s on his terms and for an elite return.

‘Karen’ reference is pretty funny though.

 

[Confucius]

So many Leaf fans are full of hate and delusion they are turning into hockey Karen's without realizing it. We should realize more than any other fan base that just because we get 11 million dollars in cap space doesn't mean we will get anywhere close to the production we get from Marner. And that includes the playoffs where his numbers arent great but they're still better than the zeroes some scrubs might put up in his place. 50 in 57 is .88 points per game and +10.

Unless we have a concrete replacement for Marner I'm not giving up on him for magic beans and players who may be decent elsewhere but flounder and don't perform at all once in the fish bowl of Toronto. Look at Bertuzzi he had a deer in the headlights glaze on his face for 4 months before getting his shit together. He looked like dead cap space before snapping out of it .

Duplicate

 

[IPS]

I do think we need to prepare for the potential return of the "Core Four" as it were

You're probably right. This organization is always years behind the moves they should make.

They're a solid 3 years late firing Keefe and they're definitely gonna be late realizing the format of "Core 4 and a bunch of pawn shop acquisition" is bound to never win you shit.

That and this still remains the only place Marner can be "comparable to Matthews" to get some insanely bloated contract that puts him mutli millions above his actual comparable. He'll probably go on some hot streak in the middle of the season like Willy and somehow get $13M x 4 cause this franchise just always figures ways to f*** themselves.

 

[Nineteen67]

Fantasy GM-ing aside, I feel people are too down on this team, not without good reason mind you, but still. I think people are underrating the impact having a legitimate coach will have for this group. Even if Marner, and by extension Tavares, don’t waive their NMCs it’s not the end of the world. Worst case we have one more season of a 90+ point winger and a 60-70 point centre who’s good at faceoffs. If the team fails again it’s only one more season with these two. Mitch will f*** off and Tavares will either do the same or re-sign at a heavy discount.

Let’s say the least enticing option happens and Marner does return, as this thread posits. Even after re-signing a few RFAs (Dewar, maybe Robertson, maybe Liljegren) there’s a ton of money to play with to upgrade the team. This team can radically transform and greatly improve the defence by signing two of Roy, Pesce, Tanev, Skjei, or Zadorov. This can be done with Brodie, Samsonov, Bertuzzi, Domi, and Klingberg coming off the books.

We'd still lack that proven elite #1G people pine for but those goalies don't grow on trees and when teams get them they hold on to them. Our only option in this scenario where Mitch doesn't waive (and even if he did I wouldn't deal him for a goalie) is to pray Woll can be that guy and remain healthy long enough for that to matter. And if he can't signing a guy like Brossoit to platoon with him would be massive, and a transformed defence could insulate any goalie faults and carry the team through at least a couple of rounds. We've seen that with Colorado recently and despite the legend of 2019 Jordan Binnington, Berube and the Blues did something similar. Binnington was clutch but he wasn't a world-beater that spring. He was solid and the Blues defence was great at protecting him.

Now, I personally want to keep both Domi and Bertuzzi because I value their offensive output and their shitassery. I like having an in your face, hyper-aggressive forward group and those two were and can be big parts of that. Both players still fit the mold of what Treliving and Berube want in players, but if we have to lose one (likely Bertuzzi) to make room for two defensemen instead of just one I'm on board for that as well. I will say I would much prefer them, or hell even just one of them, to Kampf and Jarnkrok, who each have in-house replacements ready to go and are both too passive and prone to disappearing in the playoffs. Treliving inherited Jarnkrok and he jumped the gun signing Kampf when O'Reilly spurned us and he panic signed a familiar centre who Keefe no doubt overrated in his talks with him.

The impact Berube will have cannot be understated, and the opportunity to revamp our backend the way Treliving envisions it will not be missed, regardless of Mitch coming back or not. This team is also in line for a continued youth movement. Knies will be a sophomore, Robertson could potentially return and we know he has a finishing touch. Minten could make the team and he looked strong last year in camp. Cowan just got done dominating the OHL and could seriously challenge. Niemela made great strides in the AHL, and Cade Webber and Joseph Quillan are both intriguing NCAA grads. Woll has a clear path to being the starter and he has shown signs of being elite.

I do think we need to prepare for the potential return of the "Core Four" as it were, with two guys obviously not going anywhere, and two with NMCs who don't seem all that eager to go. It'll be frustrating, but it's not a death sentence, especially if Tree makes the moves I expect him to. Or hell maybe I'm too much of an optimist and we'll get more of the same next year, I dunno. I have to have hope otherwise why am I watching?

If 53% of the cap is allocated to 4 of the same type of player it doesn’t allow the GM to acquire the appropriate pieces, i.e., defence and goaltending, to build a contending team. They must either wait out Tavares or trade one of the other three. Marner, more so than Matthews, has demonstrated he lacks the necessary skill set to play in the playoffs and, if that’s important to them, they should attempt to move him.

Letting Marner walk for nothing is poor asset management, which is the reason they’re in this position.

 

[Nineteen67]

You're probably right. This organization is always years behind the moves they should make.

They're a solid 3 years late firing Keefe and they're definitely gonna be late realizing the format of "Core 4 and a bunch of pawn shop acquisition" is bound to never win you shit.

After watching Matthews for 8 years, do you think he’ll ever lead a team to a Championship?

 

[IPS]

With Marner hiring private security because of social media outlast, it tells me he’s a very delicate guy.

He also plays in the playoffs like he's a very delicate guy too.

After watching Matthews for 8 years, do you think he’ll ever lead a team to a Championship?

He's still a unicorn franchise #1C 60+ goal scorer that you kind of have to stick with.

 

[Nineteen67]

He also plays in the playoffs like he's a very delicate guy too.


He's still a unicorn franchise #1C 60+ goal scorer that you kind of have to stick with.

He is. Find a couple of leaders and playmakers and just let him shoot the puck.

 

[ToneDog]

So many Leaf fans are full of hate and delusion they are turning into hockey Karen's without realizing it. We should realize more than any other fan base that just because we get 11 million dollars in cap space doesn't mean we will get anywhere close to the production we get from Marner. And that includes the playoffs where his numbers arent great but they're still better than the zeroes some scrubs might put up in his place. 50 in 57 is .88 points per game and +10.

Unless we have a concrete replacement for Marner I'm not giving up on him for magic beans and players who may be decent elsewhere but flounder and don't perform at all once in the fish bowl of Toronto. Look at Bertuzzi he had a deer in the headlights glaze on his face for 4 months before getting his shit together. He looked like dead cap space before snapping out of it .

So you prefer they run it back which probably pisses off most of the fan base, watch them lose in round 1 again and then allow Marner to walk for nothing or have to overpay him like you did Wille? That is what some would call complete insanity. Might as well sell jerseys.

Thankfully I see a trade coming and we won't have to watch him shit the bed next April.

 

[Nineteen67]

So you prefer they run it back which probably pisses off most of the fan base, watch them lose in round 1 again and then allow Marner to walk for nothing or have to overpay him like you did Wille? That is what some would call complete insanity. Might as well sell jerseys.

Thankfully I see a trade coming and we won't have to watch him shit the bed next April.

Yep. Change up the uniform design and sell em.

 

[Evilhomer]

So you prefer they run it back which probably pisses off most of the fan base, watch them lose in round 1 again and then allow Marner to walk for nothing or have to overpay him like you did Wille? That is what some would call complete insanity. Might as well sell jerseys.

Thankfully I see a trade coming and we won't have to watch him shit the bed next April.

If Berube can get them to win the division next season, which should be doable if they avoid their usual early season slump, they have a chance to lose in the second or third round next season. Progress!

 

[ToneDog]

If Berube can get them to win the division next season, which should be doable if they avoid their usual early season slump, they have a chance to lose in the second or third round next season. Progress!

Brad should win GMOTY if they win the division next year. With the two pigs eating up 1.5x of the cap increase, he has $2m less money to fill out the roster. If Vasi regains his form, it is more likely we finish 4th than we win the division IMO.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

This thread is a great example of how dumb this fanbase is online.

Whew

 

[Budz]

He is. Find a couple of leaders and playmakers and just let him shoot the puck.

I would much prefer that he play with cheaper players. Get him a grinder and a passer.

He needs to carry a line. I would much prefer he score 40 goals this way, than stacking a line and scoring 65.

Same goes for Willy/Mitch (If 16 stays).

 

[Evilhomer]

Brad should win GMOTY if they win the division next year. With the two pigs eating up 1.5x of the cap increase, he has $2m less money to fill out the roster. If Vasi regains his form, it is more likely we finish 4th than we win the division IMO.

It should be interesting to watch. I don't expect that Vasi will regain his form because I'm not sure Tampa will be all that much better defensively next season (despite re-acquiring McDonagh), and the odds of Kucherov repeating this season are probably not high (similarly, the odds of Matthews scoring 69 goals next season are probably not high). Will Florida continue to be as good as they are? I assume they will resign Reinhart, but will almost certainly lose Montour. Boston now has the money to add, and they will get assets in an Ullmark trade, so they have the chance to actually be better next season. I don't think any of Buffalo, Detroit or Ottawa will be much different next season, but obviously at some point one of those teams should presumably start to improve.

 

[ULF_55]

Then how are you ignoring the fact that he was our leading forward last year?

Weird because he actually has more points per game in playoffs than any other forwards with the leafs
Marner .87 (Playing 2 more games than Matthews)
Matthews .87
Nylander .78

I didn't even include Tavares. He has never had a point per game playoff series with the leafs

Unlike all those players, Marner kills penalties in playoffs

Those are not nothing. If you are going to trade him for picks, yet keep Tavares contract, that's true poor management if I ever saw one

More like than not, I think you are going to see Marner stay with the Leafs and leafs will try to move Tavares

I agree marner and Tavares will be staying with the team, and they will be re-signed.

However, the Leafs PK isn't very good. It's like 22nd. since 2017-2018 season. It was 13th. this year, out of 16 playoffs teams. So the PK isn't a positive.

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Can't blame marner for the PK woes, that's coaching and perhaps the GM for not addressing the issue.

But adding to the roster, again my wish would be a signing that makes people go "Wow, didn't see that coming." And let's face it, it has to be on defense and if they blow most of their "available" space on a stud on defense, they already have ample offensive talent, and new talent on the way.

Major factor will be team preparation and buy-in.

We can hope Berube doesn't come in thinking the lines are set because "marner and Matthews" are a thing, or "Nylander and Tavares" are the 2nd. line.

 

[mydnyte]

if Marner doesnt waive we need to trade Jarn, and Kampf, and spend most of our cap space on Defense ...and take a flyer on Dakota Joshua up front. ...if Domi is cheap enough, resign, else, skip him too, we have enough internal depth to ice a decent lineup

Joshua - Matthews - Nylander
Knies - Tavares - Marner
Robertson - Domi - McMann
Dewar - Minten - Holmberg
Cowan (gets at least the 9 games)

sans Kampf/Jarnkrok (their 4.5 can be used on Domi)

leaves us 18.5 for RFA's, Joshua and defense.
lets overpay Joshua @ 2.5
Lili about 2 mil
Dewar 1.2
Robertson 1 mil
and the rest on D

Rielly - Pesce (7)
McCabe - Roy (5.5) (or if we cant get him at this price, Walker/Carrier)
Benoit - Lili
Weber

Woll + league min vet or Hildi if he wins a spot

 

[therealkoho]

Take Marner off PP1. I watched the Avs PP last night and they only use one PP QB (Makar). We use two QBs who are not a threat to shoot the puck.

Move Kampf and Jarnkrok (both not very good past game 82)..

Which of any of them is any "good" past game 82, even Nylander is below his regular seasons numbers.

Diju listen to Kypper and Bourne yesterday? Some interesting stuff concerning not just the new hire but about Bru's first interactions with players, he hasnt talked to them all yet! They went on to cover distractions (friends in dressing room, perhaps?) and jealousies that exist in the dressing room, that will be dealt with.

In my view it's a team dressing room and not a clubhouse. Bru will be laying down the law it sounds like.

 

[therealkoho]

No one takes these idiotic strategies of benchings or limited ice time seriously. No team would employ such a childish approach and spite themselves. I guess the naivety of the thought could be considered a little cute.

This isn’t a ‘addition by subtraction’ scenario that we see posted here daily, over and over again. If he’s asked and if he’s moved, it’s on his terms and for an elite return.

‘Karen’ reference is pretty funny though.

I still don't understand the fixation on Marner as in "it's all Marners fault"

 

[keonsbitterness]

So many Leaf fans are full of hate and delusion they are turning into hockey Karen's without realizing it. We should realize more than any other fan base that just because we get 11 million dollars in cap space doesn't mean we will get anywhere close to the production we get from Marner. And that includes the playoffs where his numbers arent great but they're still better than the zeroes some scrubs might put up in his place. 50 in 57 is .88 points per game and +10.

Unless we have a concrete replacement for Marner I'm not giving up on him for magic beans and players who may be decent elsewhere but flounder and don't perform at all once in the fish bowl of Toronto. Look at Bertuzzi he had a deer in the headlights glaze on his face for 4 months before getting his shit together. He looked like dead cap space before snapping out of it .

Some fair points. It won't be easy for the Leafs to get Marner to waive and then make a good deal, but I think that's the direction they're going.

 

[thewave]

I still don't understand the fixation on Marner as in "it's all Marners fault"

He sucks in the POs? The only winners are MM with 10.9m in the bank and maybe up to 12.5m going forward and Samsung TV division. You know for when they lose next season in round 1 and millions of Leafs fans chuck freaking beer bottles through their panels after the loss.

I mean I like the Koreans as much as the next man, but I don't think this is the best way of showing my support.