What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

[tokyoite]

I dont think he will waive
he is too stubborn

 

[Leafsfan74]

I agree for the most part. It is just business. I don’t really have the same burning desire to see Marner specifically traded as I do to have some kind of major change to this roster.
But if he is the one management decides need to go that’s basically the way you have to do it.
Playing him all year in the bottom 6 with no special teams time like a bunch of people are calling for is unrealistic and based on emotion not reality

People are demanding change that's why, and they see this core the way the Muskoka Five were seen. Fans are saying "enough of the clubhouse", these players didn't do the Leafs a favour when negotiating their contracts, did they?

So, fans are rightffully saying, "after 8 years of failure and a lack of self responsibility, after we sucker fans wasted eight years on players who refuse to sacrifice when it matters, by any means necessary there will be changes"

If this is a battle of stubbornness and wills (I wish this same will was shown by some players when playing rather than just in negotations...), well, the coach actually holds the cards. Sure, the player can impact the Leafs return, him walking vs agreeing to be traded. In the end though, if it is truly about team, the Leafs have to look to their future and who they see in their future. THAT should be their focus.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I dont think he will waive
he is too stubborn

and his agent sucks.

He's going to lose.
He'll be torn to shreds by the Media and it'll lower his value.

HE will lose money.
If his goal is to "punish" the team, then he'll ride the year out.
BUT he WILL lose money.

 

[ToneDog]

and his agent sucks.

He's going to lose.
He'll be torn to shreds by the Media and it'll lower his value.

HE will lose money.
If his goal is to "punish" the team, then he'll ride the year out.
BUT he WILL lose money.

Marner's camp is not stupid. He will waive if and when he is asked. The party is over.

Mickey Marner should take his act to Anaheim and sign a sponsorship deal with Disney. I hear the celebrities in Hollywood are treated like Gods. Seems like a perfect match.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Mickey Marner should take his act to Anaheim and sign a sponsorship deal with Disney. I hear the celebrities in Hollywood are treated like Gods. Seems like a perfect match.

Yes please.

Marner's camp is not stupid.

im worried. he himself seems done with Toronto. Judging by his media interviews it looks like he's given up.

 

[4thline]

In keeping with the title of the thread, and expanding the thought process to "all 4 are back"

Kampf/Jarncro/Liljegren all traded for picks. I can (and have) argued at length at what each of them can bring to the organization individually, but if the big 4 are going I think all 3 need to be gone to make a meaningful enough change throughout the roster. I'm on the fence about adding Robertson to this list- yeah he's got upside and can produce in the regular season, but he was remarkably ineffective in the playoffs and I can see Tre wanting a different type of player in the lineup.

Leaves us with a bottom 6 of
McMann-Tavares- Greb/Minten/Cowan
Dewar-Holmberg-Tverberg/Gregor/Cheap UFA
Reaves

4thline is cheap and fast, with Berube instilling an "ears pinned back" tenacious forecheck. Reaves draws in and out
3rdline is plays a heavy game in zone, with the kid providing some energy in a pretty safe role to learn the pro game

Top 6....
Knies/UFA- Matthews-Marner/Nylander
Knies/UFA-UFA-Nylander/Marner

Defense
Rielly- UFA
McCabe - UFA
Benoit - UFA
Rifai

21.5million for a G, 3D, and 2F. It's tight. Call it 1.5 for the 3RD, that leaves 20 for 5 spots.

Maybe another rookie(or Robertson) seizes that top 6 LW spot leaving ~19 for 4 spots.

Maybe we go cheap (2m) for the other G. ~17 for 3 spots, 2C and two top 4 D. Some really interesting ways to slice that up in UFA.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

and his agent sucks.

He's going to lose.
He'll be torn to shreds by the Media and it'll lower his value.

HE will lose money.
If his goal is to "punish" the team, then he'll ride the year out.
BUT he WILL lose money.

He automatically will forfeit one year of a contract of at least $11-12M. There's no way he'll make that much at the end of his deal when he's on the decline.

If he wants to be hard headed and literally throw money down the drain let him, I'm sure Berube will love his little fly-byes and pouty faces.

 

[arso40]

In keeping with the title of the thread, and expanding the thought process to "all 4 are back"

Kampf/Jarncro/Liljegren all traded for picks. I can (and have) argued at length at what each of them can bring to the organization individually, but if the big 4 are going I think all 3 need to be gone to make a meaningful enough change throughout the roster. I'm on the fence about adding Robertson to this list- yeah he's got upside and can produce in the regular season, but he was remarkably ineffective in the playoffs and I can see Tre wanting a different type of player in the lineup.

Leaves us with a bottom 6 of
McMann-Tavares- Greb/Minten/Cowan
Dewar-Holmberg-Tverberg/Gregor/Cheap UFA
Reaves

4thline is cheap and fast, with Berube instilling an "ears pinned back" tenacious forecheck. Reaves draws in and out
3rdline is plays a heavy game in zone, with the kid providing some energy in a pretty safe role to learn the pro game

Top 6....
Knies/UFA- Matthews-Marner/Nylander
Knies/UFA-UFA-Nylander/Marner

Defense
Rielly- UFA
McCabe - UFA
Benoit - UFA
Rifai

21.5million for a G, 3D, and 2F. It's tight. Call it 1.5 for the 3RD, that leaves 20 for 5 spots.

Maybe another rookie(or Robertson) seizes that top 6 LW spot leaving ~19 for 4 spots.

Maybe we go cheap (2m) for the other G. ~17 for 3 spots, 2C and two top 4 D. Some really interesting ways to slice that up in UFA.

Trading lily to replace him with similar money is pointless when he's still getting better he's not as fast as sandin at grasping the levels but he gets there

 

[LeafEgo]

You actually have the slightest belief marner won't get a NMC?

Honestly, you know that isn't happening right?

Here is the pressure they can apply.

1. No letter on sweater.
2. Less ice time (minor decrease) but you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
3. Replaced on the PK.
4. Put on the 2nd. PP unit (see 2 above)

I think there is a productive middle ground if applying pressure is the game. You really just need to take away minutes at those times where it is safe, and opportunistic, to play younger players that are part of the longer term program.

Just a few stat padding minutes here and there would be noticed, not appreciated, and problematic for the Marner camp through a full season. And it develops our developing players at the same time.

 

[francis246]

and his agent sucks.

He's going to lose.
He'll be torn to shreds by the Media and it'll lower his value.

HE will lose money.
If his goal is to "punish" the team, then he'll ride the year out.
BUT he WILL lose money.

Do people actually think Marner is going to try and “punish” the team? Be for real man. I’m in the camp of trade Marner, but if he doesn’t waive its because he wants to be a Maple Leaf not because he wants to screw the team. Kadri did the same thing, so did Sundin. They all weren’t trying to “punish” the team. They just loved being Leafs.

Additionally there’s a scenario where Marner stays has a great year and cashes out in Free Agency, I don’t think it’s a lock that he’s losing money.

 

[ACC1224]

Do people actually think Marner is going to try and “punish” the team? Be for real man. I’m in the camp of trade Marner, but if he doesn’t waive its because he wants to be a Maple Leaf not because he wants to screw the team. Kadri did the same thing, so did Sundin. They all weren’t trying to “punish” the team. They just loved being Leafs.

Additionally there’s a scenario where Marner stays has a great year and cashes out in Free Agency, I don’t think it’s a lock that he’s losing money.

A few people here are hardly a barometer for rational thought.

 

[4thline]

Trading lily to replace him with similar money is pointless when he's still getting better he's not as fast as sandin at grasping the levels but he gets there

I would tend to agree, but I could see them deciding to move on based on stylistic preference.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Do people actually think Marner is going to try and “punish” the team? Be for real man. I’m in the camp of trade Marner, but if he doesn’t waive its because he wants to be a Maple Leaf not because he wants to screw the team. Kadri did the same thing, so did Sundin. They all weren’t trying to “punish” the team. They just loved being Leafs.

Additionally there’s a scenario where Marner stays has a great year and cashes out in Free Agency, I don’t think it’s a lock that he’s losing money.

7 vs 8 year contracts, he will make less money if he goes to UFA, not debatable.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Bertuzzi sucked all season save a 2-week window, then his selfish play cost us playoff games. why would anyone want him back??? forget his lack of hockey sense or ability to take/handle or make a pass

Plus he skated like he was on roller blades.

 

[I am Canadian]

I wouldn't make any short term moves to try and win. Spend the season developing young players & plan cap according for the 22M that would freeing up from Tavares & Marner.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I have to disagree. No other team got caught by Covid with 4 forwards consuming 50% of their cap……..only the Leafs it was Dubas’s dumb build style and the Tavares was the nail in the coffin..
You don’t blow your budget just because you hope you are getting a big raise, that’s called speculation and Dubas lost

The core 4 making over 50% of the cap was never going to work...even without covid because a lot of contracts that were signed during that time were considered cheap deals. If the cap had gone up we would have been paying role players way more money and we would still be in the same situation. It's not that you can't pay 4 guys over 50%...its the mix of players...all forwards that was the problem. Tampa seemed to do ok with 1G 1D and 2F making a ton...it's the allocation that was stupid.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He means that if Nylander isn't scoring, he's a net negative, and that covers his Games 4 and 5.

Nylander has the same problems he's always had; unless he's really feeling it, defense is a suggestion, not a requirement with him. I have a strong gut feeling that he's going to be the core member that gives Berube the hardest time, and he'll be the one the Leafs can't move because of that idiotic contract they just gave him.

That doesn't explain what "significant playoff extras" Marner and Matthews provided (he never responded, so I still have no idea).

I'm not sure why he was a net negative in those games. Game four (his first one back) he was even +/- (only three players were better) and tied with five others for most shots. Game five he was +1 (only Boosh was better), tied with Mo for most shots, and had more hits than Marner, Domi and Bert combined. He also gave Marner shit in the second period, which may have inspired Mitch to score his only goal of the playoffs (in the third).

 

[WTFMAN99]

In keeping with the title of the thread, and expanding the thought process to "all 4 are back"

Kampf/Jarncro/Liljegren all traded for picks. I can (and have) argued at length at what each of them can bring to the organization individually, but if the big 4 are going I think all 3 need to be gone to make a meaningful enough change throughout the roster. I'm on the fence about adding Robertson to this list- yeah he's got upside and can produce in the regular season, but he was remarkably ineffective in the playoffs and I can see Tre wanting a different type of player in the lineup.

Leaves us with a bottom 6 of
McMann-Tavares- Greb/Minten/Cowan
Dewar-Holmberg-Tverberg/Gregor/Cheap UFA
Reaves

4thline is cheap and fast, with Berube instilling an "ears pinned back" tenacious forecheck. Reaves draws in and out
3rdline is plays a heavy game in zone, with the kid providing some energy in a pretty safe role to learn the pro game

Top 6....
Knies/UFA- Matthews-Marner/Nylander
Knies/UFA-UFA-Nylander/Marner

Defense
Rielly- UFA
McCabe - UFA
Benoit - UFA
Rifai

21.5million for a G, 3D, and 2F. It's tight. Call it 1.5 for the 3RD, that leaves 20 for 5 spots.

Maybe another rookie(or Robertson) seizes that top 6 LW spot leaving ~19 for 4 spots.

Maybe we go cheap (2m) for the other G. ~17 for 3 spots, 2C and two top 4 D. Some really interesting ways to slice that up in UFA.

Pretty much agreed with Timmins being included with Kampf, Jarnkrok and Liljegren.

I think Robertson has a chance of being moved, I think he can score 20 if he gets consistent PP2 minutes next year but I also didn't like 0 pts in 7GP

 

[notDatsyuk]

7 vs 8 year contracts, he will make less money if he goes to UFA, not debatable.

Not guaranteed. Maybe we only offer him $10 x 8 years. According to some posters there are teams out there willing to offer him $13 or more for 7 years.

 

[Menzinger]

Do people actually think Marner is going to try and “punish” the team? Be for real man. I’m in the camp of trade Marner, but if he doesn’t waive its because he wants to be a Maple Leaf not because he wants to screw the team. Kadri did the same thing, so did Sundin. They all weren’t trying to “punish” the team. They just loved being Leafs.

Additionally there’s a scenario where Marner stays has a great year and cashes out in Free Agency, I don’t think it’s a lock that he’s losing money.

I doubt the relationship between player and team is anywhere near as antagonistic as some seem to think. Even if both sides want to move on (which is far from a sure thing, those on the outside don't know anything at the moment) a reasonable solution one way or the other will be met

 

[francis246]

7 vs 8 year contracts, he will make less money if he goes to UFA, not debatable.

Lol if you offer more money on a 7 year deal to match the money on an 8 year deal. So yes it’s debatable.

12.5 x 7 is more than 10x8 for example or even 10.9x8

 

[ToneDog]

Lol if you offer more money on a 7 year deal to match the money on an 8 year deal. So yes it’s debatable.

12.5 x 7 is more than 10x8 for example or even 10.9x8

Kyper said Marner wants $12.5mx8. $14.28mx7. When hell freezes over Mitch.

 

[ACC1224]

Lol if you offer more money on a 7 year deal to match the money on an 8 year deal. So yes it’s debatable.

12.5 x 7 is more than 10x8 for example or even 10.9x8

7 vs 8 years is pretty much a non thing. It would be very low down on the list of considerations

 

[Racer88]

Not guaranteed. Maybe we only offer him $10 x 8 years. According to some posters there are teams out there willing to offer him $13 or more for 7 years.

Ya just like Marner had offer sheets, Tavares was offered more then the Leafs paid him and Santa Claus is real

 

[darrylsittler27]

and his agent sucks.

He's going to lose.
He'll be torn to shreds by the Media and it'll lower his value.

HE will lose money.
If his goal is to "punish" the team, then he'll ride the year out.
BUT he WILL lose money.

Big time. He will say I'm a huge cancer. Many Gms will back off. His best bet is to start over.