What is wrong with Mcdavid?

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

I don't give a FLYING f*** about what you do in the regular season. The regular season has games where teams sleepwalk, hunt for the loser point or barely bother.

The regular season and all it's accolades are a waste of time. Foreplay for the real games.

Last playoffs, Eichel led his team and the playoffs in scoring with 26 points in 22 games.
Last playoffs, McDavid did outscore him points per game scoring 20 points in just 12 games.

The difference here is that Edmonton heavily leans on Conor and Draisaitl. And when they dry up or get shut down, Edmonton goes golfing. Vegas had a much more balanced scoring. Because proper cap management.

Here. Look.

Edmonton.
View attachment 775323
Vegas.
View attachment 775325

See the stark drop off in scoring on Edmonton? Besides the fact these two went head to head and it was a good series...it was Vega's depth that got them through. Depth Edmonton doesn't have. And the reason being it starts with how much they paid their stars. And we are just looking at one aspect (scoring) to see the difference between a top heavy team and one who went with depth first. I'm not even talking about defence or goaltending.

But hey! Maybe when you are on year 12 with McDavid with no success to be seen, you will figure this out. I would much rather have balanced scoring and take Eichel at 10 then McDavid at 12.5. If that bothers you... again, I don't care.

Why not have both? Replace Eichel with McDavid and drop Brett Howden. You still have balanced scoring and vastly superior top player.

Top teams have players who perform to their contracts, and often ones who outperform their contracts. The Oilers have players who are severely underperforming to their contracts. That's not a McDavid problem.

 

[Regal]

I did. You just chose to ignore it.

Beyond setting a cap bar in that locker room of top end pay out, you could put an extra mil into two defenseman. So instead of a 3 mil defender, you'd be able to afford a couple of 4 mil defenders. or it could go to your goaltending position? Or towards a third line center? It could basically improve the quality of any position you currently are lacking. To either pick up or retain.

This isn't hard fella. But I get it. It's a sensitive topic for most. The "worth" of someone. McDavid is great. But you are going to find that teams somehow dominate winning the cup without him on the roster for reasons that I've explained.

Cap management trumps generational talent. This league has insane parity. And those teams that manage to sign top players for a manageable cost are going to run over those who overpay their slightly better talent surrounded by a thinned out roster.

How did Eichel set a cap bar when he was traded to the team after they were already a contender and all their main players were already signed? And why would Eichel set a lower cap bar anyway when he’s a much worse player? How much better McDavid is factors into that bar. The Oilers have Draisaitl at 8.5 who is better and cheaper than Eichel and yet Nurse still signed for more than him. Cap management is important, but it has nothing to do with paying McDavid 12.5. The Oilers would be a top tier contender if only Nurse and Campbell were living up to their contracts being paid as a high end number 1 defenseman and a solid starter.

 

[Drytoast]

Eichel + 2.5M > McDavid is the argument?

Lol. Oh Leaf’s fans, just cause Matthews and Marner are overpaid and can’t get it done when it counts, doesn’t that’s the case for all 11M+ players.

Actually it is. Last year was the first time a team with a player getting 10M won the cup.

I don't think that's a coincidence. And trying to negate the argument of depth and cap management versus paying to have the best player in the league is negated simply because I'm a Toronto fan. That's just you running out of argument and now switching to adhomns.

 

[TheNumber4]

Well ya. And don't get me wrong. McDavid is a step beyond other players. But if you are going to penalize yourself by paying out that much for your 1C you negate the benefits of a McDavid. So I stand by my assessment. Unless you are Tampa and can pull a Kucherov heading into the playoffs, those teams who can manage their caps to prioritize depth will more likely then not run over those whom are top heavy in cap spending.

But you aren’t penalizing yourself because McDavid is well worth his cap hit and more. He also brings benefits to the club outside of his play on ice that increases his value even further. You keep that player all day long.

 

[blundluntman]

I don't give a FLYING f*** about what you do in the regular season. The regular season has games where teams sleepwalk, hunt for the loser point or barely bother.

The regular season and all it's accolades are a waste of time. Foreplay for the real games.

Last playoffs, Eichel led his team and the playoffs in scoring with 26 points in 22 games.
Last playoffs, McDavid did outscore him points per game scoring 20 points in just 12 games.

The difference here is that Edmonton heavily leans on Conor and Draisaitl. And when they dry up or get shut down, Edmonton goes golfing. Vegas had a much more balanced scoring. Because proper cap management.

Here. Look.

Edmonton.
View attachment 775323
Vegas.
View attachment 775325

See the stark drop off in scoring on Edmonton? Besides the fact these two went head to head and it was a good series...it was Vega's depth that got them through. Depth Edmonton doesn't have. And the reason being it starts with how much they paid their stars. And we are just looking at one aspect (scoring) to see the difference between a top heavy team and one who went with depth first. I'm not even talking about defence or goaltending.

But hey! Maybe when you are on year 12 with McDavid with no success to be seen, you will figure this out. I would much rather have balanced scoring and take Eichel at 10 then McDavid at 12.5. If that bothers you... again, I don't care.

Not a single thing you've mentioned actually proves Eichel at 10 million is worth more than McDavid at 12............. All it says is that Edmonton lacks depth players. If you think that measly 2.5 million you'll get with Eichel will be enough to sign enough depth players to make Edmonton a team that can play against Vegas, Jesus probably should've talked to you before he broke the 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish.

What you don't seem to understand for whatever reason, is just because a player takes up more cap space on a team that poorly manages their cap on OTHER players, it doesn't mean they aren't worth that much money.

Does Eichel fit very well in Vegas? Yes.
Does Vegas have balanced scoring? Yes.
Does the extra 2.5 million justify the difference in production and value between McDavid and Eichel? HELL NO.

Of course you have to say you don't care or give a flying f*** (which is much closer to Maulding than anything I've said), because your argument sucks. If you want to say Vegas manages their cap better, be my guest. If you want to say McDavid at 12.5 million is Edmonton's biggest problem (and not Nurse and Campbell, who you conveniently ignored), I'm going to laugh you out the building.

You seem to have trouble differentiating between value and affordability and it's unbelievably sad. Just because something is too expensive for you, it doesn't mean it isn't more valuable. It means your money/cap management stinks. If I was Vegas, I'd take McDavid over Eichel and a 2.5 million depth forward any day of the week. Any remotely competent GM would do the same.

 

[TheNumber4]

Actually it is. Last year was the first time a team with a player getting 10M won the cup.

I don't think that's a coincidence. And trying to negate the argument of depth and cap management versus paying to have the best player in the league is negated simply because I'm a Toronto fan. That's just you running out of argument and now switching to adhomns.

Running out of argument. Nah, my argument is set with the fact that McDavid is worth his contract and more. That essentially kills any notion that he’s a detriment to Cap Management.

 

[Drytoast]

Not a single thing you've mentioned actually proves Eichel at 10 million is worth more than McDavid at 12............. All it says is that Edmonton lacks depth players. If you think that measly 2.5 million you'll get with Eichel will be enough to sign enough depth players to make Edmonton a team that can play against Vegas, Jesus probably should've talked to you before he broke the 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish.

What you don't seem to understand for whatever reason, is just because a player takes up more cap space on a team that poorly manages their cap on OTHER players, it doesn't mean they aren't worth that much money.

Does Eichel fit very well in Vegas? Yes.
Does Vegas have balanced scoring? Yes.
Does the extra 2.5 million justify the difference in production and value between McDavid and Eichel? HELL NO.

Of course you have to say you don't care or give a flying f*** (which is much closer to Maulding than anything I've said), because your argument sucks. If you want to say Vegas manages their cap better, be my guest. If you want to say McDavid at 12.5 million is Edmonton's biggest problem (and not Nurse and Campbell, who you conveniently ignored), I'm going to laugh you out the building.

You seem to have trouble differentiating between value and affordability and it's unbelievably sad. Just because something is too expensive for you, it doesn't mean it isn't more valuable. It means your money/cap management stinks. If I was Vegas, I'd take McDavid over Eichel and a 2.5 million depth forward any day of the week. Any remotely competent GM would do the same.

I've already explained this. An extra 2.5 mil can make your 3rd line center rather reasonable. 3 mil to 5.5 Or 4 to 6.5 And Boom! You've got more of an adequate third line. That's just one option. OR you could poor it into goaltending. Or spread it around to your defense. But that's fine. You wanna spend 12.5 on your 1C. Ok. I don't see the value in it.

Running out of argument. Nah, my argument is set with the fact that McDavid is worth his contract and more. That essentially kills any notion that he’s a detriment to Cap Management.

Ok. Like I said, enjoy his regular season accolades. Should be fun!

 

[blundluntman]

I've already explained this. An extra 2.5 mil can make your 3rd line center rather reasonable. 3 mil to 5.5 Or 4 to 6.5 And Boom! You've got more of an adequate third line. That's just one option. OR you could poor it into goaltending. Or spread it around to your defense. But that's fine. You wanna spend 12.5 on your 1C. Ok. I don't see the value in it.


Ok. Like I said, enjoy his regular season accolades. Should be fun!

Once again, you didn't answer my question. I asked if it made enough of a difference to compete with Vegas. Does it or does it not?

OR you could not pay Jack Campbell 5 million dollars to begin with.... That sounds like a far greater issue than McDavid but that doesn't fit your narrative so I'm sure you don't see it that way.

You're wasting everybody's time going in circles and ignoring people's valid rebuttals.

 

[TheNumber4]

I've already explained this. An extra 2.5 mil can make your 3rd line center rather reasonable. 3 mil to 5.5 Or 4 to 6.5 And Boom! You've got more of an adequate third line. That's just one option. OR you could poor it into goaltending. Or spread it around to your defense. But that's fine. You wanna spend 12.5 on your 1C. Ok. I don't see the value in it.


Ok. Like I said, enjoy his regular season accolades. Should be fun!

His regular season accolades is the only thing bringing good free agents to Edmonton. He also brings it in the Playoffs, so let’s not pretend he isn’t.

McDavids value is immense. There’s not an Oilers fan out there that wants to trade him. And for good reason. You wouldn’t understand though, you don’t know the market and you don’t know how truly great players affect a franchise.

 

[MadLuke]

I am saying since the invention of the cap. Paying a large percentage towards any one position is death.

8.7 millions for Crosby on 2009 Penguins that won the cup, was what 15.5% of the cap ?

McDavid has 15% of the cap right now.

Mackinnon make 12.6, are the Avs death ?

 

[Drytoast]

Once again, you didn't answer my question. I asked if it made enough of a difference to compete with Vegas. Does it or does it not?

OR you could not pay Jack Campbell 5 million dollars to begin with.... That sounds like a far greater issue than McDavid but that doesn't fit your narrative so I'm sure you don't see it that way.

You're wasting everybody's time going in circles and ignoring people's valid rebuttals.

It makes a difference yes. Having 3 solid centers would help balance the scoring and make you more of a threat rolling three competent lines. Helps take the pressure off of McDrai and forces the other team into dealing with a third line threat.

yes.

8.7 millions for Crosby on 2009 Penguins that won the cup, was what 15.5% of the cap ?

McDavid has 15% of the cap right now.

Mackinnon make 12.6, are the Avs death ?

The league's grown more in parity since 2009.

yes Colorado is going to have a harder time now paying Mac 12.6. Math has zero f***s.

 

[blundluntman]

It makes a difference yes. Having 3 solid centers would help balance the scoring and make you more of a threat rolling three competent lines.

yes.


The league's grown more in parity since 2009.

yes Colorado is going to have a harder time now paying Mac 12.6. Math has zero f***s.

Thank you, I can now officially laugh at whatever you say from here on. $9.25M on Nurse and $5M on Campbell isn't the problem, it's McDavid and the missing $2.5M 3rd liner. Very nice.

 

[MadLuke]

The guy is +110 for his career. He’s had 5 seasons of being +20. Guess how many a supposed two way wizard like Crosby has? 2.

That putting a lot of weight between +18 and +20 (specially when scoring level change, obviously lower the scoring harder it is to have good +/-)

2010/2011 to 2013 included Crosby, had a better GF% than the Marchand-Bergeron line playing with Dupuis-Kunitz:

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Playing at a +2.59 by 60 minutes pace, completely dominating the league

McDavid 2021-2022 to 2023/2024, Mcdavid is 70th in GF% among player with 1000 minutes or more, excellent but nothing special 56%, +0.9 by 60 minutes of even strength play.

The league's grown more in parity since 2009.

yes Colorado is going to have a harder time now paying Mac 12.6. Math has zero f***s.

Obviously, going from one of the best contract of the cap era to a normal one will make things harder same for both Malkin-Crosby getting paid, but they are obviously not death.

 

[ijuka]

It makes a difference yes. Having 3 solid centers would help balance the scoring and make you more of a threat rolling three competent lines. Helps take the pressure off of McDrai and forces the other team into dealing with a third line threat.

yes.


The league's grown more in parity since 2009.

yes Colorado is going to have a harder time now paying Mac 12.6. Math has zero f***s.

What? Compared to the value they bring, star players are underpaid in this league. McDavid would be worth it even at 18mil. It's contracts like 3mil to 4th liners or 2mil to replacement defensemen that kill a team, not contracts to star players.

For example:

 

[Perfect_Drug]

He’s back! Amazing numbers.
15 pts in the last 5 games.
They beat the cup champs and beat the hot Caps in those games.

But…they also lost 2 of the 5 and…

He’s just like he’s been at his peak last year. Crazy points but his +/- is 0

I know it’s not a league/team comparison stat but I do see it as an internal simple stat to understand.

He’s putting up crazy numbers but he’s on the ice for just as many even strength goals against as goals for.

I know I’ll get slammed but I’ll say it anyway.

This is not his peak to me. If he can tighten up defensively he’ll help his team points. Even if it costs him a few personal points

Clearly didn't watch the game.

A potato is a better goalie than Stewart Skinner.
He let in 2 goals on 3 shots that Vegas took THAT ENTIRE PERIOD. The Oilers were incredibly stingy and tight defensively, but the goalie was absolutely horrendous.

Most goalies will save a few High-Danger shots against. Most goalies will save a few breakaways.

Skinner will let in EVERY breakaway chance.
Skinner will let in EVERY 2 on 1
Skinner will NOT save a single cross-seam pass.


I am not big on advanced stats? But the alarming one is HDSA% (High Danger Save Percentage).
Skinner is at the absolute bottom of the league in that category. He can not make a single high-danger save at all.

SO yes teams like Boston, Colorado, and Vegas all give up High Danger chances. Their goalie will still save most of them,

Skinner saves almost none of them. He has the lowest HDSA of any starter in the league,

 

[Kamus]

It makes a difference yes. Having 3 solid centers would help balance the scoring and make you more of a threat rolling three competent lines. Helps take the pressure off of McDrai and forces the other team into dealing with a third line threat.

yes.


The league's grown more in parity since 2009.

yes Colorado is going to have a harder time now paying Mac 12.6. Math has zero f***s.

I disagree with McDavid being overpaid by 2.5 million. I think he should be paid 1 million and use the other 11.5 million to shore up the defence and have three solid centres

Because you know that having better defenders will take the pressure of McDrai

 

[PensandCaps]

McDavid PKs and has the teams highest TOI so idk what your point is lol

What do you mean? Who was talking about McDavid's PK? Random... just talking about +/- being a flawed stat

Oh, so this time it can’t be used in favor of McDavid. Got it.

? Where did i say this.

 

[BTP]

This guy was like 96th in coring a week ago, I check today and he's 9th. my god lol

 

[PensandCaps]

Is McDavid really an "offensive only" player? There is truth to the saying that the best defence is a good offence. I think most people would agree that the Oilers are better off with McDavid taking a few offensive chances here and there rather than just grinding it out all game in his own zone. Maybe the Oilers will get a few more goals scored on them when McDavid is on the ice as a result in comparison to a player like Crosby or Bergeron, but the Oilers are scoring probably 50 more at the other end of the rink.

No, McDavid is fine defensively. He's Improved alot. Never implied otherwise.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I don't give a FLYING f*** about what you do in the regular season. The regular season has games where teams sleepwalk, hunt for the loser point or barely bother.

The regular season and all it's accolades are a waste of time. Foreplay for the real games.

Last playoffs, Eichel led his team and the playoffs in scoring with 26 points in 22 games.
Last playoffs, McDavid did outscore him points per game scoring 20 points in just 12 games.

The difference here is that Edmonton heavily leans on Conor and Draisaitl. And when they dry up or get shut down, Edmonton goes golfing. Vegas had a much more balanced scoring. Because proper cap management.

Here. Look.

Edmonton.
View attachment 775323
Vegas.
View attachment 775325

See the stark drop off in scoring on Edmonton? Besides the fact these two went head to head and it was a good series...it was Vega's depth that got them through. Depth Edmonton doesn't have. And the reason being it starts with how much they paid their stars. And we are just looking at one aspect (scoring) to see the difference between a top heavy team and one who went with depth first. I'm not even talking about defence or goaltending.

But hey! Maybe when you are on year 12 with McDavid with no success to be seen, you will figure this out. I would much rather have balanced scoring and take Eichel at 10 then McDavid at 12.5. If that bothers you... again, I don't care.

Let’s play a game:

You’re now the GM of Edmonton and just managed to “fleece” Vegas by trading McDavid for Eichel straight up.

How are you now going to use that $2.5M in extra cap space to both solve the Oilers issues AND make up for the 60pts you’ve now lost in the trade.

I’m very excited to hear this.

In addition, he also said that Kane was more physical with the Jets when he's currently leading the league in hits by a fair margin.

Missed that part.

The guy is full of it

 

[winnipegger]

$2.5 million isn't the reason Eichel has a Cup and McDavid doesn't.

Its how teams management allocate funds in a cap system. The Golden Knights don't have the dead weight the Oilers do. The Oilers are paying Nurse $9 million to be the equivalent of a 2nd pair defense man and Campbell is getting nearly $4 million to not see the ice.

You can't win Cups when your GM handcuffs your ability to make moves with bad contracts.

While I agree with the sentiment I can't allow someone to praise GK management like that. They were gifted a cup-adjacent team from nothing, and have no history of bad contracts because they are like 5 years old. Give it time.

 

[Drytoast]

Let’s play a game:

You’re now the GM of Edmonton and just managed to “fleece” Vegas by trading McDavid for Eichel straight up.

How are you now going to use that $2.5M in extra cap space to both solve the Oilers issues AND make up for the 60pts you’ve now lost in the trade.

I’m very excited to hear this.


Missed that part.

The guy is full of it

Part of good cap management is not paying someone like Nurse 9M. Edmonton has more than a few bad calls beyond McDavid's 12.5. McDavid is good. McDavid at 12.5 is ok. Eichel at 10M is optimal. That's what you want. A top tier center at a reasonable price. You don't NEED the absolute premium best of the best. You need top tier. They come a few mil cheaper and get the job done regardless.

As evident to the fact that in the past 7 years, teams have somehow found a way to win without the best of the best. Crazy, isn't it?

I disagree with McDavid being overpaid by 2.5 million. I think he should be paid 1 million and use the other 11.5 million to shore up the defence and have three solid centres

Because you know that having better defenders will take the pressure of McDrai

Because not having good defenders has worked out well so far? lol.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

15 points in 5 games. 12 in 3.

If anything was wrong with him, it’s not wrong now.