What is wrong with Mcdavid?

[Regal]

He costs too f***ing much which means he can't be surrounded with a competent team that consists of hard working, decently skilled 3 lines deep that can pull their weight and take pressure off of him.

Currently Edmonton, like Toronto...sucks both in goal and on the back end.

Solution? Stop overpaying talent because of prestige. And pay them to what their value actually is. McDavid isn't worth 12M+ The damage done to the cap by setting that bar as standard pay destroys your cap structure and the cap don't give two f***s about how good McDavid is.

Eichel at 10M is more valuable than McDavid at 12M+

Stars are underpaid. It’s GMs who have messed up the worth of the middle tier talent. McDavid easily brings more than 2.5 million more than Eichel. But that’s ruined by guys like Nurse making 9 and an unplayable goalie making 5.

 

[YippieKaey]

This is a funny thread.

 

[Video Nasty]

+/- isn't a stat for defense.

lots of offensive only players have good +/- because they simply score alot.

Lot of Defensively responsible forwards have a negative +/- because they are put in Defensive situations and aren't much of a goalscorer.

Oh, so this time it can’t be used in favor of McDavid. Got it.

 

[crowfish]

Awesome. Again…to me it’s an inner team stat. Not comparable to players on other teams.

I’m just saying that he can put up all the points he wants. It doesn’t mean he’s gonna make the oilers outcome better. He put a career season in points and goals last year. I think that’s great. I just think that he has more to do. And the more has nothing to do with points.

He put up 20 points in 12 games in the playoffs last year. Amazing numbers.

Unfortunately…he was -1 when even strength.

So what’s the easier way for him to help his team? Put up more points or tighten up defensively?

I think the latter will help both on the scoreboard and in the locker room. And he should be doing now.

Why are we even talking about McDavid's 20 pts in 12 games as if somehow he needs to change his game for the Oilers to win? That's why the Oilers lost the past 2 years, McDavid's game???

Let's imagine a relay race runner team loses the championship. Was the fastest runner on the team the reason they lost?

I find it funny how this gets brought up as if he hasn't been the best player in the post-season since the salary cap era. I know Draisaitl slightly edges him in PPG, but we all know it's McDavid.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

+/- isn't a stat for defense.

lots of offensive only players have good +/- because they simply score alot.

Lot of Defensively responsible forwards have a negative +/- because they are put in Defensive situations and aren't much of a goalscorer.

McDavid PKs and has the teams highest TOI so idk what your point is lol

 

[syz]

People who still trot out the "tighten up defensively" line have barely watched the Oilers.

Name any elite forward who you think is also good defensively and they'd probably be - if they had Skinner or Campbell in net behind them.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Plenty of people have said that.

Maroon having TEAM success doesn’t change that his point totals haven’t even matched his goal totals since leaving McDavids side

Nah, he had personal success, and was sought after by Stanley Cup contenders bolstering their 3rd line, where he belongs.

You need to realize that part of a 3rd liner getting more points is being placed on the top line with more minutes, not just because of the particular 1st line center that they are playing with.

Please explain how a 35G/60pt pace is “just as good” as a 50g/PPG pace with McDavid.

Dude stop lying. Kane has never paced at 50g. Not even with McDavid. His pace in that season with the Jets was closer to 40G, in a lower scoring era, where he was more physical.

His pace with McDavid was ~43g, in a higher scoring era. Literally nonexistent change in his production playing with McDavid, and this actually hurts your point.

Hyman was never pacing anywhere close to PPG before playing with McDavid.

Looks like he got 33p in 43 games last season in Toronto, so let’s just disagree what’s close to PPG then.

RNH has been playing 19-20mins his entire career. His point totals only went up consistently when playing with McDrai

You mean when he went into a top line winger role. Not a center carrying his own line?

Mcdavid makes everyone around him better than anyone else in the NHL. End of story.

Makar does, end of story. See how easy this is, when you don’t back things up with facts?

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

RNH didn't win the Calder.

*Calder runner up.

Good catch.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Nah, he had personal success, and was sought after by Stanley Cup contenders bolstering their 3rd line, where he belongs.

You need to realize that part of a 3rd liner getting more points is being placed on the top line with more minutes, not just because of the particular 1st line center that they are playing with.

Dude stop lying. Kane has never paced at 50g. Not even with McDavid. His pace in that season with the Jets was closer to 40G, in a lower scoring era, where he was more physical.

His pace with McDavid was ~43g, in a higher scoring era. Literally nonexistent change in his production playing with McDavid, and this actually hurts your point.

Looks like he got 33p in 43 games last season in Toronto, so let’s just disagree what’s close to PPG then.

You mean when he went into a top line winger role. Not a center carrying his own line?

Makar does, end of story. See how easy this is, when you don’t back things up with facts?

Show me the massive impact Makar has had on all his teammates production. I’ve just show you McDavids.

Maroons point totals can’t even reach his goal totals that he had with Edmonton. You also called EDM a bottom feeder that season. They had 103pts. You also stated he wouldn’t have made any more money. The highest contract he’s received was his first year away from McDavid. How much more would you like to be wrong here?

Kane paced for 49G and just below PPG including playoffs. He is pacing for 80 this year. Somehow his 56 points was “just as good”?

In what world is pacing for 60pts in a shortened season close to PPG? LOL

RNH has had top line minutes his entire career. He only took off when placed with McDrai.

This is truly pathetic. I’m not sure why I’m arguing with a guy who thinks 60pt pace (in a half season) is “almost” PPG.

 

[blundluntman]

He costs too f***ing much which means he can't be surrounded with a competent team that consists of hard working, decently skilled 3 lines deep that can pull their weight and take pressure off of him.

Currently Edmonton, like Toronto...sucks both in goal and on the back end.

Solution? Stop overpaying talent because of prestige. And pay them to what their value actually is. McDavid isn't worth 12M+ The damage done to the cap by setting that bar as standard pay destroys your cap structure and the cap don't give two f***s about how good McDavid is.

Eichel at 10M is more valuable than McDavid at 12M+

I love Eichel as much as the next guy but this is the most insanely bad take I think I've ever read. Not like, silly opinion bad, remedial math bad.

McDavid scored literally 2x as much as Eichel last season if you wanna talk about value... Yet, somehow he's the overpriced one when he makes a measly 2 million more? Even a kid with 4th grade math skills could see how silly this sounds. So would Edmonton be better off with Eichel scoring under a ppg just bc they would have an extra 2.5 in cap space to sign another 3rd liner? How does this make any sense in your head?

 

[Drytoast]

I love Eichel as much as the next guy but this is the most insanely bad take I think I've ever read. Not like, silly opinion bad, remedial math bad.

McDavid scored literally 2x as much as Eichel last season if you wanna talk about value... Yet, somehow he's the overpriced one when he makes a measly 2 million more? Even a kid with 4th grade math skills could see how silly this sounds. So would Edmonton be better off with Eichel scoring under a ppg just bc they would have an extra 2.5 in cap space to sign another 3rd liner? How does this make any sense in your head?

You can mauld about it while you are confused as to why Edmonton never wins a cup while having a generational talent like McDavid on it while the Eichels of the league all manage to get it done postseason. All of them WITHOUT a McDavid. And even though it will be obvious when you look at the team make up cap wise what seems to be consistent still will not resonate with you because you just can't fathom the negatives of paying any one player a high percentage of the cap.

I don't really care.

And understand that I absolutely am telling you that the Leafs suffer from this stupidity as well. So this isn't me shitting on McDavid or Edmonton. I just respect the importance of cap management.

 

[blundluntman]

You can mauld about it while you are confused as to why Edmonton never wins a cup while having a generational talent like McDavid on it while the Eichels of the league all manage to get it done postseason. All of them WITHOUT a McDavid.

I don't really care.

I know this quote sounded good in your head but it makes just as little sense as the first one. Just quit while you're behind if this is all you've got.

I literally gave you an opportunity to explain yourself when I asked how the extra 2.5 in cap space would justify taking a player that produces less than half as much as the other player and of course, there was no answer.

 

[Drytoast]

I know this quote sounded good in your head but it makes just as little sense as the first one. Just quit while you're behind if this is all you've got.

I literally gave you an opportunity to explain yourself when I asked how the extra 2.5 in cap space would justify taking a player that produces less than half as much as the other player and of course, there was no answer.

I did. You just chose to ignore it.

Beyond setting a cap bar in that locker room of top end pay out, you could put an extra mil into two defenseman. So instead of a 3 mil defender, you'd be able to afford a couple of 4 mil defenders. or it could go to your goaltending position? Or towards a third line center? It could basically improve the quality of any position you currently are lacking. To either pick up or retain.

This isn't hard fella. But I get it. It's a sensitive topic for most. The "worth" of someone. McDavid is great. But you are going to find that teams somehow dominate winning the cup without him on the roster for reasons that I've explained.

Cap management trumps generational talent. This league has insane parity. And those teams that manage to sign top players for a manageable cost are going to run over those who overpay their slightly better talent surrounded by a thinned out roster.

 

[Video Nasty]

You can mauld about it while you are confused as to why Edmonton never wins a cup while having a generational talent like McDavid on it while the Eichels of the league all manage to get it done postseason. All of them WITHOUT a McDavid. And even though it will be obvious when you look at the team make up cap wise what seems to be consistent still will not resonate with you because you just can't fathom the negatives of paying any one player a high percentage of the cap.

I don't really care.

And understand that I absolutely am telling you that the Leafs suffer from this stupidity as well. So this isn't me shitting on McDavid or Edmonton. I just respect the importance of cap management.

Your style of stand up is strange, but I like it.

 

[Drytoast]

Your style of stand up is strange, but I like it.

This just tells me you are too sensitive to talk about cap management. It's cute.

 

[Video Nasty]

This just tells me you are too sensitive to talk about cap management. It's cute.

Whatever you say, Drytake.

 

[crowfish]

I did. You just chose to ignore it.

Beyond setting a cap bar in that locker room of top end pay out, you could put an extra mil into two defenseman. So instead of a 3 mil defender, you'd be able to afford a couple of 4 mil defenders. or it could go to your goaltending position? Or towards a third line center? It could basically improve the quality of any position you currently are lacking. To either pick up or retain.

This isn't hard fella. But I get it. It's a sensitive topic for most. The "worth" of someone. McDavid is great. But you are going to find that teams somehow dominate winning the cup without him on the roster for reasons that I've explained.

Cap management trumps generational talent. This league has insane parity. And those teams that manage to sign top players for a manageable cost are going to run over those who overpay their slightly better talent surrounded by a thinned out roster.

Cap management is the key to winning Cups, AND you could easily win a Cup with McDavid's current cap hit. Both can be true.

 

[blundluntman]

I did. You just chose to ignore it.

Beyond setting a cap bar in that locker room of top end pay out, you could put an extra mil into two defenseman. So instead of a 3 mil defender, you'd be able to afford a 4 mil defender. or it could go to your goaltending position? Or towards a third line center? It could basically improve the quality of any position you currently are lacking. To either pick up or retain.

This isn't hard fella. But I get it. It's a sensitive topic for most. The "worth" of someone. McDavid is great. But you are going to find that teams somehow dominate winning the cup without him on the roster for reasons that I've explained.

Cap management trumps generational talent. This league has insane parity.

Okay let's explore your "logic".. You said this:

And even though it will be obvious when you look at the team make up cap wise what seems to be consistent still will not resonate with you because you just can't fathom the negatives of paying any one player a high percentage of the cap.

Let's say hypothetically, I could fathom the negatives of paying any one player a high percentage of the cap, how would that logic lead me to go after McDavid (who produced 2.63x more points last season than a player you believe deserves to make 10 million) before looking at lets say: Darnell Nurse (who makes 9.25 million) or Jack Campbell (who makes 5 million)? Seriously, please answer this question instead of reverting to condescending/weak deflections that only derail the inevitable emptiness of your argument.

Secondly, I'll ask you this: Do you genuinely believe that extra 1-2 million in cap space is going to land you a good enough player to offset the weaknesses this team has? You really think if they had a 4 million dman instead of a 3 million dman, they would be that better defensively? And you don't think the dropoff in offensive production from McDavid to Eichel would negatively impact the team so much that it cancels out the assets you ad as a result?

How do they replace this dman? Do they trade him? How do they replace this enormously overpaid goaltender in Jack Campbell and find one worth 6 million that actually deserves it? If you can't answer this, then it seems like at best, your cap management argument is being applied to the wrong players; and at worst, there's an even greater problem here.

1. You're acting like this is a zero sum game which is simply false. You talk about cap management but your "solution" as far as I'm concerned is painfully inadequate.

2. You're singling out the best player on their team who is likely worth even MORE money when there are 2 other players who are undeservingly eating up nearly 6-7 million dollars in cap space.

3. Not to mention, you used a weak blanket statement which basically implies: "Jack Eichel played for a cup-winning team, so he must be the type of player that simply wins no matter where he plays for" in order to justify stating that him at 10 million is more valuable than a player that is leaps and bounds better than him.

Conclusion: you sound like you're just trying to be edgy.

 

[Drytoast]

Cap management is the key to winning Cups, AND you could easily win a Cup with McDavid's current cap hit. Both can be true.

A team has more of an advantage signing an Eichel at 10 and spending that extra 2.5 somewhere else then Edmonton has signing McDavid at 12.5

And it gets worse once he re-ups.

 

[Drytoast]

Okay let's explore your "logic".. You said this:

Let's say hypothetically, I could fathom the negatives of paying any one player a high percentage of the cap, how would that logic lead me to go after McDavid (who produced 2.63x more points last season than a player you believe deserves to make 10 million) before looking at lets say: Darnell Nurse (who makes 9.25 million) or Jack Campbell (who makes 5 million)? Seriously, please answer this question instead of reverting to condescending/weak deflections that only derail the inevitable emptiness of your argument.

Secondly, I'll ask you this: Do you genuinely believe that extra 1-2 million in cap space is going to land you a good enough player to offset the weaknesses this team has? You really think if they had a 4 million dman instead of a 3 million dman, they would be that better defensively? And you don't think the dropoff in offensive production from McDavid to Eichel would negatively impact the team so much that it cancels out the assets you ad as a result?

How do they replace this dman? Do they trade him? How do they replace this enormously overpaid goaltender in Jack Campbell and find one worth 6 million that actually deserves it? If you can't answer this, then it seems like at best, your cap management argument is being applied to the wrong players; and at worst, there's an even greater problem here.

1. You're acting like this is a zero sum game which is simply false. You talk about cap management but your "solution" as far as I'm concerned is painfully inadequate.

2. You're singling out the best player on their team who is likely worth even MORE money when there are 2 other players who are undeservingly eating up nearly 6-7 million dollars in cap space.

3. Not to mention, you used a weak blanket statement which can basically implies: "Jack Eichel played for a cup-winning team, so he must be the type of player that simply wins no matter where he plays for" in order to justify stating that him at 10 million is more valuable than a player that is leaps and bounds better than him.

Conclusion: you sound like you're just trying to be edgy.

I don't give a FLYING f*** about what you do in the regular season. The regular season has games where teams sleepwalk, hunt for the loser point or barely bother.

The regular season and all it's accolades are a waste of time. Foreplay for the real games.

Last playoffs, Eichel led his team and the playoffs in scoring with 26 points in 22 games.
Last playoffs, McDavid did outscore him points per game scoring 20 points in just 12 games.

The difference here is that Edmonton heavily leans on Conor and Draisaitl. And when they dry up or get shut down, Edmonton goes golfing. Vegas had a much more balanced scoring. Because proper cap management.

Here. Look.

Edmonton.

Vegas.

See the stark drop off in scoring on Edmonton? Besides the fact these two went head to head and it was a good series...it was Vega's depth that got them through. Depth Edmonton doesn't have. And the reason being it starts with how much they paid their stars. And we are just looking at one aspect (scoring) to see the difference between a top heavy team and one who went with depth first. I'm not even talking about defence or goaltending.

But hey! Maybe when you are on year 12 with McDavid with no success to be seen, you will figure this out. I would much rather have balanced scoring and take Eichel at 10 then McDavid at 12.5. If that bothers you... again, I don't care.

 

[TheNumber4]

Cap management is obviously important, one way to manage the Cap well is to have players that are worth more than their Cap Hit. You know like McDavid, who’s been everything the Oilers hoped he would be and more.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Show me the massive impact Makar has had on all his teammates production. I’ve just show you McDavids.

Maroons point totals can’t even reach his goal totals that he had with Edmonton. You also called EDM a bottom feeder that season. They had 103pts. You also stated he wouldn’t have made any more money. The highest contract he’s received was his first year away from McDavid. How much more would you like to be wrong here?

Kane paced for 49G and just below PPG including playoffs. He is pacing for 80 this year. Somehow his 56 points was “just as good”?

In what world is pacing for 60pts in a shortened season close to PPG? LOL

RNH has had top line minutes his entire career. He only took off when placed with McDrai.

This is truly pathetic. I’m not sure why I’m arguing with a guy who thinks 60pt pace (in a half season) is “almost” PPG.

In addition, he also said that Kane was more physical with the Jets when he's currently leading the league in hits by a fair margin.

 

[Drytoast]

Cap management is obviously important, one way to manage the Cap well is to have players that are worth more than their Cap Hit. You know like McDavid, who’s been everything the Oilers hoped he would be and more.

Well ya. And don't get me wrong. McDavid is a step beyond other players. But if you are going to penalize yourself by paying out that much for your 1C you negate the benefits of a McDavid. So I stand by my assessment. Unless you are Tampa and can pull a Kucherov heading into the playoffs, those teams who can manage their caps to prioritize depth will more likely then not run over those whom are top heavy in cap spending.

 

[TheNumber4]

Eichel + 2.5M > McDavid is the argument?

Lol. Oh Leaf’s fans, just cause Matthews and Marner are overpaid and can’t get it done when it counts, doesn’t mean that’s the case for all 11M+ players.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I did. You just chose to ignore it.

Beyond setting a cap bar in that locker room of top end pay out, you could put an extra mil into two defenseman. So instead of a 3 mil defender, you'd be able to afford a couple of 4 mil defenders. or it could go to your goaltending position? Or towards a third line center? It could basically improve the quality of any position you currently are lacking. To either pick up or retain.

This isn't hard fella. But I get it. It's a sensitive topic for most. The "worth" of someone. McDavid is great. But you are going to find that teams somehow dominate winning the cup without him on the roster for reasons that I've explained.

Cap management trumps generational talent. This league has insane parity. And those teams that manage to sign top players for a manageable cost are going to run over those who overpay their slightly better talent surrounded by a thinned out roster.

That’s easy. The teams are simply overall better. Better depth on both ends, better defense, better goaltending. It’s not hard to understand. Even Gretzky couldn’t win a cup outside of all that talent In Edmonton.