What is wrong with Mcdavid?

[Plastic Joseph]

I meant in terms of talent

He is behind Orr and Howe for now for career

If he wins the ross+hart+lindsay again this year he has a better peak+prime than Howe and can just be a top 5 player for another 7-8 years and he will pass Howe all time

I don't wanna get into the era thing, or the 6 teams argument etc.

But IF McDavid never wins the cup, he will not be considered better than Gordie Howe by most. Fair or not, you aren't supplanting any of the big 4 without a cup

 

[hamzarocks]

I don't wanna get into the era thing, or the 6 teams argument etc.

But IF McDavid never wins the cup, he will not be considered better than Gordie Howe by most. Fair or not, you aren't supplanting any of the big 4 without a cup

Cups become overrated when your comparing a guy that is as dominant or more dominant than a member of the big 4. Mcdavid broke the NHL. Even the biggest Mcdavid fans couldn't expect he would dominate the NHL so hard over the past 8 years when he was gettinf drafted.

Just Mcdavid vs Howe

If Mcdavid has 8 rosses/9 lindsays/6 harts and a couple of rockets but somehow cant win a cup despite a top 3-5 ppg in playoffs history, he is clearly well ahead of Howe as a player.

Using this logic, we would have Mark Messier/Sakic/Crosby (much lesser extrnt as Crosby is only a tier back of Mcdavid and a top 10 guy himself) ahead of Mcdavid if he never wins a cup

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Cups become overrated when your comparing a guy that is as dominant or more dominant than a member of the big 4. Mcdavid broke the NHL. Even the biggest Mcdavid fans couldn't expect he would dominate the NHL so hard over the past 8 years when he was gettinf drafted.

Just Mcdavid vs Howe

If Mcdavid has 8 rosses/9 lindsays/6 harts and a couple of rockets but somehow cant win a cup despite a top 3-5 ppg in playoffs history, he is clearly well ahead of Howe as a player.

Using this logic, we would have Mark Messier/Sakic/Crosby (much lesser extrnt as Crosby is only a tier back of Mcdavid and a top 10 guy himself) ahead of Mcdavid if he never wins a cup

Don't shoot the messenger I'm just stating the obvious.

If Mcdavid ends his career with 0 cups that's the only argument people will need to place him below Howe.

 

[jigglysquishy]

If Mcdavid has 8 rosses/9 lindsays/6 harts and a couple of rockets but somehow cant win a cup despite a top 3-5 ppg in playoffs history, he is clearly well ahead of Howe as a player.

This doesn't even make sense from a what if.

Howe actually has 6 Harts and 6 Art Rosses. He actually finishes top 3 in Hart 12 times. He actually won the Art Ross in 1953 by a wider margin (Canadians only) than McDavid in 2023.

He actually finished top 3 in points in 1950 and then again in 1969. He actually finished third in WHA scoring in 1974 at age 46.

He actually scored 20 points in 11 games to win the Cup in 1955. He actually lead playoffs in scoring again in 1949, 1961, 1963, and 1964. He actually did the insanity of 20 points in 13 games in 1975 at age 47 to win an Avco Cup.

There is so much insanity to Howe's career over a 30 year period. It's literally the best longevity in hockey history.

The chance McDavid overtakes him is miniscule. And he has to overtake Lemieux first before getting to Howe and Orr.

Just enjoy the craziness of McDavid. He's almost guaranteed to walk into the 5 spot. But his chance of breaking up the Big Four is incredibly small.

 

[hamzarocks]

This doesn't even make sense from a what if.

Howe actually has 6 Harts and 6 Art Rosses. He actually finishes top 3 in Hart 12 times. He actually won the Art Ross in 1953 by a wider margin (Canadians only) than McDavid in 2023.

He actually finished top 3 in points in 1950 and then again in 1969. He actually finished third in WHA scoring in 1974 at age 46.

He actually scored 20 points in 11 games to win the Cup in 1955. He actually lead playoffs in scoring again in 1949, 1961, 1963, and 1964. He actually did the insanity of 20 points in 13 games in 1975 at age 47 to win an Avco Cup.

There is so much insanity to Howe's career over a 30 year period. It's literally the best longevity in hockey history.

The chance McDavid overtakes him is miniscule. And he has to overtake Lemieux first before getting to Howe and Orr.

Just enjoy the craziness of McDavid. He's almost guaranteed to walk into the 5 spot. But his chance of breaking up the Big Four is incredibly small.

Howe has "only" 6 rosses + harts

The scenerio above has Mcdavid at 9 rosses + 8 lindsays + 6 harts

That is being the best player or top 2 player in the league at a higher level than Howe achieved

Howe also played in a 6 team league, so he was making the playoffs guaranteed vs Mcdavid lost the 2018 hart due to Oilers sucking despite winning tbe ross + lindsay that year

Mcdavid in his career so far

2016: top 7 player in the league, injury riddled year as a rookie
2017 - Best in reg season, Crosby a bit better overall with playoffs - Top 2
2018 - Best player in the world
2019 - Top 2 player, slightly behind Kuch
2020 - Top 2 player - slightly behind Draisaitl
2021 - Best player in the world
2022 - Best player in the world (playoffs included)
2023 - Best player in the world

He has already 7 years of being a top 2 player in the world. If he gets another 3-4 years of those (with most of those being the best with ross+hart+lindsays) he will pass Howe who didnt end up winning those awards as often than Mcdavid in this scenerio

11/12 top 2 finishes in a 32 team league with 8-9 being ross/hart/lindsay years is better than Howe's peak/prime in 6 team league or a bad WHA league

 

[nbwingsfan]

Don't shoot the messenger I'm just stating the obvious.

If Mcdavid ends his career with 0 cups that's the only argument people will need to place him below Howe.

I never really bought the cup argument when comparing how good players were.

Let’s say McDavid goes on three more incredible runs, putting up 2ppg in the post season but falls short because he sticks with Edmonton who are the most inept organization in the league and never built a proper team.

How does that affect him being an incredible player?

Would you rate Hasek much lower if he didn’t join the stacked Wings team in 2002 to win his only cup (as a starter)?

 

[Soundwave]

In all honesty, neither Gretzky or Lemieux (who are my no.1 and no.2 all time for the record) could not carry any kind of average to even "just good" team to a Cup. Every time they won they basically needed the deck stacked in their odds with basically an All-Star team to play with.

The 80s Oilers were so good they won a Cup without Gretzky and Coffey and even Fuhr, lol, imagine removing the no.1 C, no.1 D, and no.1 G from any Cup contender and they just win again anyway.

Lemieux had trouble getting the Penguins even into the playoffs until they just loaded up a team with tons of talent because there was no salary cap in that era and you could just amass a mountain of good players. Joey Mullin was a "role player" on the Penguins, he was the leading scorer on the 89 Flames that won a Cup just a few years prior, lol.

The teams Gretzky won with would be like the McDavid Oilers having Draisaitl and Kaprizov and Tkachuk and Cale Makar and Sheshterkin on his team and then even several very good role players on top of that. A Charlie Huddy was massively underrated in his career, in today's game he'd be like Jacob Slavin.

 

[blundluntman]

It's hilarious how horribly this thread has aged in such little time. The sensible folk understood he was playing through an injury and left it at that. Meanwhile, other folks tried too hard to sound like sports analysts with the "McDavid go slow now, he no good no more" takes. Really goes to show how eager a lot of fans are to shit on him whenever the opportunity presents itself.

 

[winnipegger]

For reference, he scored 48 goals and 70 assists for 118 points in his final 62 games last season. He went pointless just 3 times during that stretch. The Oilers went 40-13-9.

Interesting to note is that he didn’t have a single instance of putting up 9 points in 2 games like he has now, during the entire season last year. Considering he currently has 12 points in his past 4 games, he managed 2 separate instances of 13 points in 4 games last season and no others over 11.

We could very well see him average 2 PPG from here on out to make a second assault on 150 points and notch his 1000th career point in the final game of the regular season.

I certainly hope he does so all the cardboard eating lunatics who doubt this man's abilities are put to bed. He knows what he's going to do with the puck a full second before everyone else does and it shows.

 

[Soundwave]

It's hilarious how horribly this thread has aged in such little time. The sensible folk understood he was playing through an injury and left it at that. Meanwhile, other folks tried too hard to sound like sports analysts with the "McDavid go slow now, he no good no more" takes. Really goes to show how eager a lot of fans are to shit on him whenever the opportunity presents itself.

How some HFBoards posters think McDavid's engagement went:

 

[PaulD]

Interesting that someone can be a negative player and still be considered their top defensive player. By the way, he didn’t have anything really significant when it came to Dzone starts that year compared to other years. He actually had more in previous years. His line actually bled goals that post season and he spent a whopping 10 seconds per game on SH(4 minutes total) so no, nothing you said was actually correct. Nice try though.

Interesting that the “best player” can’t produce with everyone. I find that odd. All I hear is how much he makes everyone around him better and can carry a line, yet your blaming his linemates..

your bashing on the best player his generation reeks of pure envy.
Give it up.
We all watched the play off runs.
It was obvious who the best player on the team was.
You're trying way too hard.

Cheers

 

[jigglysquishy]

There are lots of examples of S-tier players on good teams losing in the playoffs despite outstanding playoffs.

Gretzky 1993 - 40 points in 24 games including 15 goals including 7 points in 5 games in the final. Kings only scored 12 goals.
Orr 1975 - 6 points in 3 games (+7). Lose to a deeper Blackhawks team.
Orr 1971 - 12 points in 7 games, including the first ever playoff hat trick by a defenseman. Lead all players that round in scoring. Bruins fall to dynasty Habs.
Howe 1963 - 16 point 7 goals in 11 games, tieing for league lead in points in the playoffs. Red Wings lose to dynasty Leafs

Can even point to someone like Russell Bowie, the greatest offensive weapon of all-time when he retired, couldn't drag him team to a Cup in amateur era 1900s. He put up Gretzky-esque margins in a league where players played 60 minutes of a game. And still couldn't overcome a team full of stars.

 

[GreatGonzo]

your bashing on the best player his generation reeks of pure envy.
Give it up.
We all watched the play off runs.
It was obvious who the best player on the team was.
You're trying way too hard.

Cheers

Stating facts isn’t bashing him. Or in this case, calling out ridiculous statements. if you’re so sensitive that you see it that way, that’s your problem.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Stating facts isn’t bashing him. Or in this case, calling out ridiculous statements. if you’re so sensitive that you see it that way, that’s your problem.

This whole thing is childish. Oiler fans love to say how much McDavid is better than Crosby. Like, who cares? You can never accept that both players are great/special and leave it at that. You have to keep proving that McDavid is better. I don't care if a player on my team is better or worse than another player X. Why do you guys have to put down Crosby? I don't get it.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

There are lots of examples of S-tier players on good teams losing in the playoffs despite outstanding playoffs.

Gretzky 1993 - 40 points in 24 games including 15 goals including 7 points in 5 games in the final. Kings only scored 12 goals.
Orr 1975 - 6 points in 3 games (+7). Lose to a deeper Blackhawks team.
Orr 1971 - 12 points in 7 games, including the first ever playoff hat trick by a defenseman. Lead all players that round in scoring. Bruins fall to dynasty Habs.
Howe 1963 - 16 point 7 goals in 11 games, tieing for league lead in points in the playoffs. Red Wings lose to dynasty Leafs

Can even point to someone like Russell Bowie, the greatest offensive weapon of all-time when he retired, couldn't drag him team to a Cup in amateur era 1900s. He put up Gretzky-esque margins in a league where players played 60 minutes of a game. And still couldn't overcome a team full of stars.

Sounds like all those guys need to backcheck harder

 

[snag]

Sounds like all those guys need to backcheck harder

Meh.....they were just bums.

 

[PaulD]

Stating facts isn’t bashing him. Or in this case, calling out ridiculous statements. if you’re so sensitive that you see it that way, that’s your problem.

nah
I've watched Sid for almost 20 years counting junior. I know who and what he is.

Maybe you can start knocking Gretzkys game next . Or Lidstrom...then move on to goalies and rip Haseks numbers up.

Cheers

 

[Sniper99]

Weak ass captain. Consistently overrated as a leader & player.

Weak ass take

 

[McFlash97]

Numero quatre-vingt-dix-sept is back. Thanks for keeping the Art Ross warm.

 

[Coffey]

quatre-vingt-dix-sept

French numbering makes me inexplicably angry.

 

[Oilslick941611]

French numbering makes me inexplicably angry.

4 20 10 7 = 97 somehow.

 

[crowfish]

When Gretzky left the Oilers and they won again without him, and he never won again, that should have ended the archaic "Cups define goats" argument once and for all.

Why on earth should I rate who the greatest players of all time were based on how lucky their team circumstances were?? Or what Era they played in.

I have a better idea: let's rank players based on their skill and talent.

 

[Albatros]

I have a better idea: let's rank players based on their skill and talent.

Mike Ribeiro likes this.

 

[Coffey]

4 20 10 7 = 97 somehow.

They want you to guess the symbols in between the numbers!

 

[Soundwave]

When Gretzky left the Oilers and they won again without him, and he never won again, that should have ended the archaic "Cups define goats" argument once and for all.

Why on earth should I rate who the greatest players of all time were based on how lucky their team circumstances were?? Or what Era they played in.

I have a better idea: let's rank players based on their skill and talent.

The modern equivalent team to what Gretzky had in Edmonton would be absurd today too.

Gretzky (McDavid)
Messier (Draisaitl)
Kurri (Pastrnak)
Anderson (Tkachuk)
Coffey (Makar)
Lowe (Brodin)
Fuhr (Shesheterkin)

That team would be like $10+ million over the cap.

The truth is neither Gretzky or Lemieux were able to win even with just "pretty good" teams. They needed "ridiculously stacked All-Star teams" to win anything.

Even the '93 Kings had a lot of fire power and they got destroyed by the Habs in the Cup Final.