What is wrong with Mcdavid?

[authentic]

What’s ‘wrong’ with McDavid is that we’re seeing the tip of the “iceberg” that I’ve been stating for years IS lurking in the midst of his career. The thing with McDavid is that while being a very good player in his own right, what sets him apart and makes him the multiple Art Ross winning player that he is- is his absurd cheat-mode like speed and ability to handle the puck at that speed.

For those that follow combat sports (particularly boxing-where speed is king) one thing you learn is that speed is the first thing to go. Other skills stay in place, but everything does erode with age and it all starts with speed going first, often well before other skills, with power being last to go.

Hockey is no different, speed goes first. Most players can still have respectable late careers even after having lost a half-step. Their game just evolves a touch and they don’t try to force some of the rushes they would’ve in earlier years.

With McDavid- there’s nowhere to transition to. He cannot just tweak his game a bit when he starts to lose a step. His entire playing style is built around his phenom speed. Not to say McDavid will be ineffective- far from it. But my prediction is that he will degrade earlier and far steeper than most other elites- and we might just be seeing the leading edge of that already.

He’s playing hurt this season, has nothing to do with his speed degrading. McDavid will still be blowing by defenders well into his 30s and I don’t see any out of the ordinary decline that’s not related to injury happening before then, but I guess only time will tell.

 

[crowfish]

What’s ‘wrong’ with McDavid is that we’re seeing the tip of the “iceberg” that I’ve been stating for years IS lurking in the midst of his career. The thing with McDavid is that while being a very good player in his own right, what sets him apart and makes him the multiple Art Ross winning player that he is- is his absurd cheat-mode like speed and ability to handle the puck at that speed.

For those that follow combat sports (particularly boxing-where speed is king) one thing you learn is that speed is the first thing to go. Other skills stay in place, but everything does erode with age and it all starts with speed going first, often well before other skills, with power being last to go.

Hockey is no different, speed goes first. Most players can still have respectable late careers even after having lost a half-step. Their game just evolves a touch and they don’t try to force some of the rushes they would’ve in earlier years.

With McDavid- there’s nowhere to transition to. He cannot just tweak his game a bit when he starts to lose a step. His entire playing style is built around his phenom speed. Not to say McDavid will be ineffective- far from it. But my prediction is that he will degrade earlier and far steeper than most other elites- and we might just be seeing the leading edge of that already.

He didn't "lose a step" at age 26. You are probably 5 years early on that lol. You don't go from the most dynamic player in history to "losing a step" over a summer vacation (at age 26). He clearly has some sort of injury right now.

 

[Soundwave]

What’s ‘wrong’ with McDavid is that we’re seeing the tip of the “iceberg” that I’ve been stating for years IS lurking in the midst of his career. The thing with McDavid is that while being a very good player in his own right, what sets him apart and makes him the multiple Art Ross winning player that he is- is his absurd cheat-mode like speed and ability to handle the puck at that speed.

For those that follow combat sports (particularly boxing-where speed is king) one thing you learn is that speed is the first thing to go. Other skills stay in place, but everything does erode with age and it all starts with speed going first, often well before other skills, with power being last to go.

Hockey is no different, speed goes first. Most players can still have respectable late careers even after having lost a half-step. Their game just evolves a touch and they don’t try to force some of the rushes they would’ve in earlier years.

With McDavid- there’s nowhere to transition to. He cannot just tweak his game a bit when he starts to lose a step. His entire playing style is built around his phenom speed. Not to say McDavid will be ineffective- far from it. But my prediction is that he will degrade earlier and far steeper than most other elites- and we might just be seeing the leading edge of that already.

There's not really much proof that guys who are very fast lose that speed.

Messier could still fly well into his 30s, so could Bure, so could Mike Gartner. Paul Coffey put up 90 points at age 34 in the dead puck era.

You're not seeing anything but him playing with a hip injury right now.

And even with that he is the fastest player on the ice, it's really more seeming to impact his shot/hands right now.

 

[RedRocking]

What’s ‘wrong’ with McDavid is that we’re seeing the tip of the “iceberg” that I’ve been stating for years IS lurking in the midst of his career. The thing with McDavid is that while being a very good player in his own right, what sets him apart and makes him the multiple Art Ross winning player that he is- is his absurd cheat-mode like speed and ability to handle the puck at that speed.

For those that follow combat sports (particularly boxing-where speed is king) one thing you learn is that speed is the first thing to go. Other skills stay in place, but everything does erode with age and it all starts with speed going first, often well before other skills, with power being last to go.

Hockey is no different, speed goes first. Most players can still have respectable late careers even after having lost a half-step. Their game just evolves a touch and they don’t try to force some of the rushes they would’ve in earlier years.

With McDavid- there’s nowhere to transition to. He cannot just tweak his game a bit when he starts to lose a step. His entire playing style is built around his phenom speed. Not to say McDavid will be ineffective- far from it. But my prediction is that he will degrade earlier and far steeper than most other elites- and we might just be seeing the leading edge of that already.

I’ve often wondered the same thing about McDavid’s future. Now, I think it’s very early to be projecting that this is some tipping point - he’s clearly dealing with an injury.

Regardless, there’s all the talk in this thread ranking McDavid against the all-time greats, and Crosby. Crosby has always worked on different aspects of his game, and can affect a game (and help win) in so many different ways. I would actually also put his good buddy (lol) MacK in the same category.

McDavid, I don’t want to say “one trick pony” - but so much of his game is predicated on absurd speed - so it will be interesting to see how he adapts as he loses some of his skating advantage. E.g., can he learn to be more impactful without the puck?

I’ll give a cautionary tale from my own team - Kuznetsov. Now, it’s unfair to compare a great, competitive leader like McDavid to the “I play when I want” head case that is Kuzy. But, think back to his younger days, and particularly his 2018 SC run where he arguably should have won the CS. Dazzling skater, with incredible edgework - a magician with the puck on his stick, in the vein of McDavid. Kuzy, besides being lazy, has lost a step as he is now on the wrong side of 30. He’s not adapting very well, and stupidly tries things he can’t do anymore, and is a turnover machine.

Again, it’s an unfair comparison in terms of compete, IQ and leadership - but watching Kuzy’s recent trajectory makes me wonder what McDavid’s game will look like ~ 5 years from now.

 

[HabzSauce]

There's not really much proof that guys who are very fast lose that speed.

Messier could still fly well into his 30s, so could Bure, so could Mike Gartner. Paul Coffey put up 90 points at age 34 in the dead puck era.

You're not seeing anything but him playing with a hip injury right now.

And even with that he is the fastest player on the ice, it's really more seeming to impact his shot/hands right now.

Why not rest him then. Season is doomed without him at his best anyway

 

[Soundwave]

Why not rest him then. Season is doomed without him at his best anyway

Because he wants to try and he has the earned the right to make that call.

 

[ijuka]

Because he wants to try and he has the earned the right to make that call.

I don't think so. No one has "earned" the right to play injured to the detriment of the team.

Force him to recover, you have the power.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't think so. No one has "earned" the right to play injured to the detriment of the team.

Force him to recover, you have the power.

He's still even at 50-60% a 70-80 point player, acting like Nugent freaking Hopkins or someone is going to replace him is naive.

He still draws penalties and still draws all top pairing D and checking lines to him, making life easier for the rest of the team.

If he's not making the injury worse and it's just a matter of playing through pain and with limited mobility in some respects, he's earned the right to want to play by being the best player in the sport for many years now.

 

[Turin]

He’s playing hurt this season, has nothing to do with his speed degrading. McDavid will still be blowing by defenders well into his 30s and I don’t see any out of the ordinary decline that’s not related to injury happening before then, but I guess only time will tell.

I don’t think McDavid has lost speed yet but again to use Crosby as an example go watch his skating from 2007 when he was 19/20 and compare it to when he was 27. Still a great skater but not nearly as explosive. Most of that is probably energy related as opposed to diminished reflexes however.

He's still even at 50-60% a 70-80 point player, acting like Nugent freaking Hopkins or someone is going to replace him is naive.

He still draws penalties and still draws all top pairing D and checking lines to him, making life easier for the rest of the team.

If he's not making the injury worse and it's just a matter of playing through pain and with limited mobility in some respects, he's earned the right to want to play by being the best player in the sport for many years now.

But if it’s delaying his recovery it is harming the team because a 70 point player isn’t what they’re built around, it’s a 130+ point player.

 

[Soundwave]

I don’t think McDavid has lost speed yet but again to use Crosby as an example go watch his skating from 2007 when he was 19/20 and compare it to when he was 27. Still a great skater but not nearly as explosive. Most of that is probably energy related as opposed to diminished reflexes however.



But if it’s delaying his recovery it is harming the team because a 70 point player isn’t what they’re built around, it’s a 130+ point player.

If they don't start making some ground up now, he can rest all he wants in Feb/March/April because it won't matter then.

 

[AndreRoy]

he's earned the right to want to play by being the best player in the sport for many years now.

The best player in the sport was in last night’s game but he wasn’t wearing an Edmonton sweater.

 

[Soundwave]

The best player in the sport was in last night’s game but he wasn’t wearing an Edmonton sweater.

I think when you've been the best player in any sport for like 5+ years and by fairly significant margins at times, you've earned more than a grace period of 2 months, lol. Especially when you're playing injured.

Two years ago when Gaudreau and Huberdeau were in the top 3-4 in scoring, some people tried to say that meant Gaudreau and Huberdeau were McDavid level players ... lol, how'd that pan out in the big picture?

McDavid is the only player really that's been great every year of the last several seasons, not "well one year was great, next year fell off", this is the first time he's having a poor season because he's purposefully playing injured rather than protect his stats by sitting at home.

 

[Fantomas]

McDavid is going through hard times now, really being tested, because it is very very hard to completely dominate the modern league year in and year out.

Ovechkin and Crosby both went through this and had down years. McDavid probably will too.

Unless he picks himself up and goes on a tear again real soon. If he does then he truly is in the same tier as Gretzky.

 

[x Tame Impala]

McDavid is the goods. He’s still young enough to cement himself as one of the best ever. Not quite yet but you’re lying if you don’t think his talents are capable of getting him there.

Crosby’s talent is indisputably among the all time greats, however. Consider what Crosby’s career would look like if he didn’t miss 100 games in-between his 23 & 24 year old seasons. 66 points in 44 games was absolutely insane in 2011, he looked unstoppable.

McDavid would’ve lost 2 Hart’s, a Ross, and a Pearson if he missed similar time.

I was so stoked to watch the Oilers this year and it's clear without McDavid being McDavid and without competent goaltending they are unlikely to make the playoffs. Hard to say what the team should do. Do you shut 97 down for a month and hope he heals up? What happens if they do sit him and win one game in December? The time to sit him would've been when he got hurt earlier in the year and missed games. I get the organization's perspective, they've got him on a contract for a limited period of time with no guarantee he'll re-sign. It's not necessarily "cup or bust", but it might be something close to that.

I don't really see an immediate resolution to the goalie issue either. Draisaitl's contract is too good to be moved unless the return is a #1 goalie at his salary or less, right? Even then I'm not sure. Nurse's contract is atrocious for the player he is but even if they could move him it's not clear how they replace him on the blueline.

Logically speaking if they’re clearly not a guaranteed playoff team without him at full strength it’d make sense to me at least to rest him for a bit. Who cares if you’re not winning the Cup this year? Edmonton wasn’t likely to win even if McDavid were fully healthy.

 

[Dhockey16]

McDavid is the goods. He’s still young enough to cement himself as one of the best ever. Not quite yet but you’re lying if you don’t think his talents are capable of getting him there.

Crosby’s talent is indisputably among the all time greats, however. Consider what Crosby’s career would look like if he didn’t miss 100 games in-between his 23 & 24 year old seasons. 66 points in 44 games was absolutely insane in 2011, he looked unstoppable.

McDavid would’ve lost 2 Hart’s, a Ross, and a Pearson if he missed similar time.


Logically speaking if they’re clearly not a guaranteed playoff team without him at full strength it’d make sense to me at least to rest him for a bit. Who cares if you’re not winning the Cup this year? Edmonton wasn’t likely to win even if McDavid were fully healthy.

Yeah, missing those two years definitely was a blow to Sid's trophy cabinet. Crosby was on pace for a special year in 2011, I remember sitting in class googling updates on his injury status and dutifully checking HFBoards literally every day for Sid news. Even considering the injuries, I think 97 still comes out ahead. He hasn't finished worse than 2nd in scoring since his rookie year - just incredible, although it looks like that streak might come to an end this season.

I actually disagree about Edmonton. It sort of does matter that they win a cup in the next year or two. With Leon's cap-friendly contract expiring the pressure is on - and they'd be foolish to think Mcdavid will look elsewhere if they can't at least get to a finals. They lost to the eventual cup winner each of the last two years, including that great series against Vegas.

I hope they get it right but I can't say I'm confident right now. The goaltending situation is catastrophic and has no clear resolution in sight. They are 0-5 this year when getting 40+ shots a game. Not sure where they go from here

 

[thaman8765678]

Lol I hate the Oilers as much as anyone, but he hasn't lost a step. He is clearly playing injured, and the Oilers have no choice but to play him because they have zero depth.

On a normal team, he is probably sitting for 3 or 4 weeks to recover.

 

[authentic]

I don’t think McDavid has lost speed yet but again to use Crosby as an example go watch his skating from 2007 when he was 19/20 and compare it to when he was 27. Still a great skater but not nearly as explosive. Most of that is probably energy related as opposed to diminished reflexes however.



But if it’s delaying his recovery it is harming the team because a 70 point player isn’t what they’re built around, it’s a 130+ point player.

Crosby had a high ankle sprain when he was 20 and also had multiple concussions by then so he toned down the intensity of his game by then. I don’t think this loss of energy and explosiveness happens as quickly as you think. I’m guessing you’re probably not older than 25.

 

[ijuka]

Guy needs to be benched, tbh. And sit a week or something. Guy's clearly injured, but even then, it shouldn't force him to make the kind of boneheaded decisions he's making.

But, this rookie coach for sure does not have the balls to bench McDavid.

 

[DearDiary]

Crosby had a high ankle sprain when he was 20 and also had multiple concussions by then so he toned down the intensity of his game by then. I don’t think this loss of energy and explosiveness happens as quickly as you think. I’m guessing you’re probably not older than 25.

Crosby never recovered from his ankle injury. He was one of the fastest players in the league but then dropped dramatically right away. Had nothing to do with concussions or toning down the game, which came way after 2007

 

[John Mandalorian]

View attachment 763304

Is there anything noteworthy in Richmond Hill ?

 

[Midnight Judges]

It is extremely close, bro.

View attachment 770152

Your chart is bs because it pretends Crosby played 82 games in seasons where he played 41, 53, 22, and 36.

You are pretending Crosby's 37 point season is just as good as McDavid's 116 point season.

It's blatant dishonest history revision.

 

[authentic]

Crosby never recovered from his ankle injury. He was one of the fastest players in the league but then dropped dramatically right away. Had nothing to do with concussions or toning down the game, which came way after 2007

His concussions made him less likely to rush the puck and play a safer more methodical game, I agree with you about the high ankle sprain there was a noticeable difference in his skating before and after but he still regained a lot of his speed by about the time he started getting concussions.

 

[SimpleJack]

“We’re seeing the tip of the iceberg” lol he’ll probably put up like 150 pts again next season…

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Carrying drai on his back is clearly catching up to him. I'm sure he wouldn't mind drai "geNErAtionAl derp second best player in the world ahh derp" ( Matthews AINEC) carry him but he can't...so.... yeah.. he's hurt and tired and no one can help him...

 

[Stealth1616]

Drai and Matthews have the exact same amount of points, not sure this is the “got you” moment you are looking for.

Matthews is certainly a top 3 player on his own team any given season though, I’ll give you that