Speculation: What (if anything) does Colorado do about their goaltending?

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

What do you mean "if" he's great...how is this even debatable lmao.

NHLPA poll had him ranked as the best goalie or top 5 for how many years straight until Vasi took over? He was THE goalie every year in those polls.

You think you know more than NHL players or GMs? Nah fam.

It's debatable because the only arguments in his favor seem to rely on pretending the NHLPA Players Poll is definitely more meaningful than anything he's actually done on the ice and that anyone who disagrees is a heretic for not believing too.

 

[AslanRH]

Fine, Avs fans will send Bowers + Helleson + 1st in order to take on Price @50% + the death of further Price to the Avs discussions until Price can show he is capable of 15 quality starts

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Habs added star rookies at end of each year. Claude Lemieux, Richer, etc. They were better team in playoffs than regular season. Plus Roy never had to face best team in league that year. Habs got a break. Mario had cancer, was burned out by playoffs that year. Smith eliminated the Oilers himself.

Price won the Hart. Roy never. Price won Olympic Gold. Roy never. Price won 2 WJC, Roy never. Better goalie Price.

So, your argument is that Roy had very little to do with the Cup win in 1986 and didn't really deserve the Smythe he won? Or is that winning the Cup is somehow less impressive than winning some games behind powerhouse Canadian teams in short international tournaments?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Kuemper is now 15-5. Avs in first place in the west by points %. He’s settled into a groove. I highly doubt Sakic is even slightly pondering a starting goalie move. He’s probably not working the phones period.

Kuemper is 10-1 in his last 11 and has posted a .910 and a 2.62. He's an average goalie being dragged along by the team right now.

 

[McJedi]

Kuemper is 10-1 in his last 11 and has posted a .910 and a 2.62. He's an average goalie being dragged along by the team right now.

So based on those 10-1 results, feels like having average goaltending at $3.5mm cap hit works just fine. Avs are thriving with him in net. And unlike when the team lost complete confidence in Miska, and Jojo to a lesser extent, the Avs still play well and play their game with Kuemper in net.

if it ain’t broke as they say.

 

[McJedi]

Avs need pk help and their goaltending will go from above average to elite real quick.

Helm has been so much worse than I expected at PK. EJ and Jack Johnson are too slow.

Graves gave the Avs much more lateral movement, shot blocking and an active stick. Graves would have been lost to Seattle and we’d be stuck overpaying Donny so I understand what Sakic did. But out PK misses Graves badly. And Helm’s suck hasn’t made anything better.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

James Reimer for a 3rd in 2022.

 

[The Abusement Park]

So based on those 10-1 results, feels like having average goaltending at $3.5mm cap hit works just fine. Avs are thriving with him in net. And unlike when the team lost complete confidence in Miska, and Jojo to a lesser extent, the Avs still play well and play their game with Kuemper in net.

if it ain’t broke as they say.

I mean the Avs thrived with Grub in net as well.

 

[McJedi]

I mean the Avs thrived with Grub in net as well.

if Seattle would trade him back at 50% retention, then sure. Grubs had a low $3mm AAV with the Avs. He’s double that now.

that new Grubs contract sucks. Badly. Sakic dodged a bullet there. Grubs has been awful with Seattle.

 

[The Abusement Park]

if Seattle would trade him back at 50% retention, then sure. But that Grubs contract sucks. Badly. Sakic dodged a bullet there.

That wasn't my point but ok.

 

[McJedi]

That wasn't my point but ok.

I’m not sure what point you’re tying to make. I making the point the Avs are just fine with Kuemper in net making $3.5mm, winning most of his games and saving 91% of the shots he’s faced. The Avs play well with Kuemper in net.

I’m not looking backwards to yesteryear. I don’t think the Avs need to make any other moves at the G position if I’m looking at today or tomorrow. I’m thrilled Sakic didn’t spend $6mm on Grubs. That would have instantly become our worst contract. Seattle may need to buy that out in a few years.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I’m not sure what point you’re tying to make. I making the point the Avs are fine with Kuemper in net making $3.5mm. I’m not looking backwards to yesteryear. I don’t think the Avs need to make any other moves at the G position.

I'm saying that that Grub looked fine in the RS as well but clearly wasn't the answer. Kuemper is the exact same level of goalie as Grub. Hopefully Kuemper steps it up in the playoffs but it doesn't look promising.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Habs added star rookies at end of each year. Claude Lemieux, Richer, etc. They were better team in playoffs than regular season. Plus Roy never had to face best team in league that year. Habs got a break. Mario had cancer, was burned out by playoffs that year. Smith eliminated the Oilers himself.

Price won the Hart. Roy never. Price won Olympic Gold. Roy never. Price won 2 WJC, Roy never. Better goalie Price.

Price was great. Who knows what he is after another injury, off ice issues and age.

 

[McJedi]

I'm saying that that Grub looked fine in the RS as well but clearly wasn't the answer. Kuemper is the exact same level of goalie as Grub. Hopefully Kuemper steps it up in the playoffs but it doesn't look promising.

Grubs wasn’t the problem in the playoffs. Bednar was. Low IQ hockey was and our lack of ability to play more of a shut down style murdered the Avs season. The Avs were taking stupid risks in a game 5 they were winning in the 3rd period. The Avs were pressing to score more goals and run up the score when all they needed to do was play sound defense and dull the games to win. The Avs had a lead in all four games they lost to Vegas. It wasn’t Grubs fault they lost. They lost because they didn’t adjust to the situations they were in. That’s coaching.

The Avs were a low IQ team capable of just high-octane north-south hockey. Goalie ain’t got nothing to do with that. That is a style of play problem.

if the Avs continue to play a 7:4 style of hockey game, we’ll lose in the playoffs even if prime Pat Roy were in net.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I'm saying that that Grub looked fine in the RS as well but clearly wasn't the answer. Kuemper is the exact same level of goalie as Grub. Hopefully Kuemper steps it up in the playoffs but it doesn't look promising.

Did Grubauer cause the game 7 tying goal against San Jose to get called back for a phantom offside?

Did Grubauer force Ian Cole to run into him during the stadium series game, causing the injury that got aggravated against Dallas? Or was Grubauer to blame for Francouz also being injured, resulting in Hutchinson being in net for the last 3 games?

Did Grubauer cause the team to only score a combined 5 goals in the first 3 losses to Vegas? Or was it Grubauer's fault that Kadri got suspended against St Louis?

The reality is that you need a lot of different things to go right at the same time to win the Cup, and a lot of things went wrong for the Avs. The whole team wasn't good enough to win, so laying the blame on Grubauer seems like a weird take.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Did Grubauer cause the game 7 tying goal against San Jose to get called back for a phantom offside?

Did Grubauer force Ian Cole to run into him during the stadium series game, causing the injury that got aggravated against Dallas? Or was Grubauer to blame for Francouz also being injured, resulting in Hutchinson being in net for the last 3 games?

Did Grubauer cause the team to only score a combined 5 goals in the first 3 losses to Vegas? Or was it Grubauer's fault that Kadri got suspended against St Louis?

The reality is that you need a lot of different things to go right at the same time to win the Cup, and a lot of things went wrong for the Avs. The whole team wasn't good enough to win, so laying the blame on Grubauer seems like a weird take.

I never said Gru was the sole reason we lost? Kinda weird to put words in my mouth like that. But he most certainly was a problem. I mean look at his save % in the last 2/3 games of both series. .864, .889, .857, .880, .773. The most important games of the Avs last 20 years. The team plays a part for sure but those numbers are very much a Grub issue.

 

[McJedi]

I never said Gru was the sole reason we lost? Kinda weird to put words in my mouth like that. But he most certainly was a problem. I mean look at his save % in the last 2/3 games of both series. .864, .889, .857, .880, .773. The most important games of the Avs last 20 years. The team plays a part for sure but those numbers are very much a Grub issue.

You give up overtime breakaways and late in game 3 on 1s because you’re an undisciplined team that is poorly coached and has a low hockey IQ, any goalie will have a crappy save %.

If the Avs can’t win a cup with the roster they have right now, that’s a coaching issue all the way. This is the NHLs best team and has been for 3 years now. Dallas was lost to injuries but last year falls on Bednar.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I never said Gru was the sole reason we lost? Kinda weird to put words in my mouth like that. But he most certainly was a problem. I mean look at his save % in the last 2/3 games of both series. .864, .889, .857, .880, .773. The most important games of the Avs last 20 years. The team plays a part for sure but those numbers are very much a Grub issue.

You seem to be at least strongly implying that Grubauer bears a disproportionate amount of responsibility for the team losing, and I think it's kind of weird to suggest that Grubauer "clearly" wasn't good enough, when our losses have been primarily due to injuries and overall team failures. Had the team not struggled badly as a whole in most of those games, it's not even remotely clear to me that he couldn't have been good enough. All we really can say for certain is that he couldn't drag the team to victory when they didn't deserve to win.

 

[The Abusement Park]

You give up overtime breakaways and late in game 3 on 1s because you’re an undisciplined team that is poorly coached and has a low hockey IQ, any goalie will have a crappy save %.

If the Avs can’t win a cup with the roster they have right now, that’s a coaching issue all the way. This is the NHLs best team and has been for 3 years now. Dallas was lost to injuries but last year falls on Bednar.

But it's not only a team issue. Look at the Holden goal in game 6. I'd expect Miska to let a goal like that in, not the best goalie on a cup contender. I mean Fleury wasn't good in the series but still made big saves to create momentum or keep the team in it. The last 3 games Grub didn't make any. Again Grub wasn't the only issue but he 10000% was a problem.

 

[Alienblood]

Did Grubauer cause the game 7 tying goal against San Jose to get called back for a phantom offside?

Did Grubauer force Ian Cole to run into him during the stadium series game, causing the injury that got aggravated against Dallas? Or was Grubauer to blame for Francouz also being injured, resulting in Hutchinson being in net for the last 3 games?

Did Grubauer cause the team to only score a combined 5 goals in the first 3 losses to Vegas? Or was it Grubauer's fault that Kadri got suspended against St Louis?

The reality is that you need a lot of different things to go right at the same time to win the Cup, and a lot of things went wrong for the Avs. The whole team wasn't good enough to win, so laying the blame on Grubauer seems like a weird take.

Grubauer did let in some weak goals in that game 7 and during the series. He did again against Vegas.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Grubauer did let in some weak goals in that game 7 and during the series. He did again against Vegas.

Absolutely. But who on the team actually played really well in those games? From my viewpoint, the whole team struggled, badly at times, and Grubauer was just one of the many guys equally responsible for the team losses. With so many things going wrong, I just struggle to single out any one guy as "clearly not the answer", when there were so many other issues with what was submitted.

 

[The Abusement Park]

You seem to be at least strongly implying that Grubauer bears a disproportionate amount of responsibility for the team losing, and I think it's kind of weird to suggest that Grubauer "clearly" wasn't good enough, when our losses have been primarily due to injuries and overall team failures. Had the team not struggled badly as a whole in most of those games, it's not even remotely clear to me that he couldn't have been good enough. All we really can say for certain is that he couldn't drag the team to victory when they didn't deserve to win.

I don't care how bad the team plays in front of him. Those numbers in elimination games are unacceptable. I say he isn't the answer because any goalie good enough to win a cup won't have numbers that bad in 5 consecutive elimination games.

 

[ottawa]

It's debatable because the only arguments in his favor seem to rely on pretending the NHLPA Players Poll is definitely more meaningful than anything he's actually done on the ice and that anyone who disagrees is a heretic for not believing too.

How, you brought up the player poll

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I don't care how bad the team plays in front of him. Those numbers in elimination games are unacceptable. I say he isn't the answer because any goalie good enough to win a cup won't have numbers that bad in 5 consecutive elimination games.

Not entirely fair. Most goalies would have bad numbers in elimination games since those are the games they tend to get eliminated from. Every game in the playoffs matter. Very small sample size and not IMO indicative of a goalie you need. Grubauer was the only reason the Avs won game 2 last year against Vegas. But it doesn't matter since its not game 6?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not entirely fair. Most goalies would have bad numbers in elimination games since those are the games they tend to get eliminated from. Every game in the playoffs matter. Very small sample size and not IMO indicative of a goalie you need. Grubauer was the only reason the Avs won game 2 last year against Vegas. But it doesn't matter since its not game 6?

I mean it's a pattern with Grub. Good first games of the series and then he completely falls apart at the end. Obviously the games before that matter, but if it's guaranteed you aren't getting even .890 goaltending in an elimination game it's almost a guaranteed loss.