Speculation: What (if anything) does Colorado do about their goaltending?

[McJedi]

A guy with a career 43-45 record in the playoffs, who has zero Cups and zero Smythes and needs special covid rules to even make the playoffs is a "playoff god"? He has a nice SV%, but hasn't done anything to warrant deification.

Man do I wish the Avs playoff failures were as simple as being goalie related. That would be a much more simplistic problem to fix. Avs didn’t fall short in either of the last two years because of their goalie play. They were decimated by injuries and remain an injury prone team.

and last season. Yikes. When the NHL suspends their rule book and allows massive amounts of cross checking, inference and holding. The Avs, stylistically, are at a major disadvantage. When there are just one or two PPs per game. When you can get knocked off the puck via flagrant cross check. When you can be held, tackled or butt ended transitioning up ice by Corey Perry.. all the skill and speed is neutralized.

until the Avs learn how to play a much dirtier and heavy style in the playoffs. Until Bednar learns how to whine and work the refs, the Avs aren’t a goalie away. They are much much farther away.

I would say the Avs have been noticeably more violent this season and it has caught several opponents off guard. They’ve learned some valuable lessons and are participating in more eye for an eye type retribution and performances. It’s encouraging. MacDermid is a welcome addition in this regard. His presence has unnerved some opponents. He went a bit goon in the second last night and it caught Chicago’s attention in a good way.

 

[ottawa]

A guy with a career 43-45 record in the playoffs, who has zero Cups and zero Smythes and needs special covid rules to even make the playoffs is a "playoff god"? He has a nice SV%, but hasn't done anything to warrant deification.

That's literally the point I'm making, the fact he has the stats that he does in spite of being 43-45 (literally under .500) is mindblowing.

And if you stat watchers think that's amazing, his play on ice is even more amazing. His "lowly" .919 save % would be significantly higher if he actually had good teams in front of him.

 

[ottawa]

This has Joe Sakic and Ken Holland written all over it imo

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Grubs was terrible to start his Avs career. His first season was disappointing. It wasn’t until Grubs 2nd and 3rd season that he settled in.

Kuemper is 14-5 with a 91% save percentage. He’s already adjusting faster than Grubs did. Avs are fine in net.

between his very good record and so-so save % (he’s been average and trending above that), Kuemper is doing more than enough to own the Avs net. Frankie now backing him up with Toews and Byram in the line-up, Avs have a ton of fire power available right now.

Sakic can sit in his office all day and not answer his phone. What he should be doing is calling the Eagles to call up guys like Bowers and Maltsev into the line up in place of the very disappointing Darren Helm or worthless macDermid for those nights the other squad doesn’t have their own goon

Not true at all.

He had a .916 sv% or higher every season with the Avs. He was the reason we made playoffs his first year after we were outside the playoff picture halfway through the year until Grubauer stepped up and stole the starter role from Varly.

Kuemper has a below average sv% right now which doesn't even paint half the picture. He's among the worst starters in the league when it comes to GSVA or GSVA/60.

The Avs are an incredibly stingy defensive team that rarely gives up high quality chances, but with Kuemper in net when they do give up those chances they are getting less saves then almost every other team in the league.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

That's literally the point I'm making, the fact he has the stats that he does in spite of being 43-45 (literally under .500) is mindblowing.

And if you stat watchers think that's amazing, his play on ice is even more amazing. His "lowly" .919 save % would be significantly higher if he actually had good teams in front of him.

So, let me get this straight. He's a "playoff god" because he allegedly doesn't suck as much as his teammates always have, and is both "amazing" but also not amazing enough to actually win something without having a good team in front of him. And you think that qualifies him to be compared to a 4 time Cup winner, 3 time Smythe winner like Roy, who won 2 of those Cups/Smythes in Montreal on mediocre teams?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

This has Joe Sakic and Ken Holland written all over it imo

As has been outlined previously in this thread your opinion isn't great

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

So, let me get this straight. He's a "playoff god" because he allegedly doesn't suck as much as his teammates always have, and is both "amazing" but also not amazing enough to actually win something without having a good team in front of him. And you think that qualifies him to be compared to a 4 time Cup winner, 3 time Smythe winner like Roy, who won 2 of those Cups/Smythes in Montreal on mediocre teams?

...yes?

 

[ottawa]

So, let me get this straight. He's a "playoff god" because he allegedly doesn't suck as much as his teammates always have, and is both "amazing" but also not amazing enough to actually win something without having a good team in front of him. And you think that qualifies him to be compared to a 4 time Cup winner, 3 time Smythe winner like Roy, who won 2 of those Cups/Smythes in Montreal on mediocre teams?

Well yes...but if that's all you got out of my post, then you need to start paying more attention to Price.

He's a playoff God mainly because he's making basement teams be competitive with Stanley cup contenders on a regular basis, often times beating them throughout his career.

But yes, also everything you said in the first half as well.

 

[tucker3434]

Not true at all.

He had a .916 sv% or higher every season with the Avs. He was the reason we made playoffs his first year after we were outside the playoff picture halfway through the year until Grubauer stepped up and stole the starter role from Varly.

Kuemper has a below average sv% right now which doesn't even paint half the picture. He's among the worst starters in the league when it comes to GSVA or GSVA/60.

The Avs are an incredibly stingy defensive team that rarely gives up high quality chances, but with Kuemper in net when they do give up those chances they are getting less saves then almost every other team in the league.

Kuemper is 1.4 goals worse than expected. Not ideal but he hasn’t been terrible either. Annunen and Johansson combine for -11.5. That’s where the gulf between GA and xGA comes from.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

You laugh now but Colorado hasn't had a competent goalie since 2020-21. They'll take their chances on anyone and everyone, book it.

Francouz is better than Jake Allen, so its kinda pointless.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Kuemper is 1.4 goals worse than expected. Not ideal but he hasn’t been terrible either. Annunen and Johansson combine for -11.5. That’s where the gulf between GA and xGA comes from.

For a starting goalie its pretty bad.

NHL Goalie Statistics

All situations, Out of 25 goalies to play 20+ games this year he ranks 20th. The guys he ahead of are Grubauer, Blackwood, Fleury, Koskinen, and Jake Allen. Basically all the goalies in the league facing a bunch of criticism right now for poor play.

At just 5 on 5 his numbers are also worse. 20th out of 25 goalies again but at -3.7 GSAE. Again only ahead of other goalies facing lots of criticism for suboptimal play.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Francouz is better than Jake Allen, so its kinda pointless.

When is Francouz not injured?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

When is Francouz not injured?

Right now.

 

[Boondock]

So how exactly should we evaluate goalies potential?. Darcy Kumper played in front of worse team than Carey Price in last few years with better results.
Team Canada is also not asked to commit to Carey Price for next 5 years.

...or give up multiple high end pieces to commit to him for the next 5 years.

 

[Mandalorian]

So, let me get this straight. He's a "playoff god" because he allegedly doesn't suck as much as his teammates always have, and is both "amazing" but also not amazing enough to actually win something without having a good team in front of him. And you think that qualifies him to be compared to a 4 time Cup winner, 3 time Smythe winner like Roy, who won 2 of those Cups/Smythes in Montreal on mediocre teams?

So I guess Pastrnak and Mackinnon aren't playoff performer because they never won cups?

He has .928SV% and 2.13 GAA in the past 4 playoff, what do you want him to do, have a .950SV% and sub 2GAA and win Stanley cup by himself purely by 1-0 scores?

Carey Price has been an absolute force in the playoff since 2017-2018, he is a difference maker between a bottom of the standing team and a Stanley cup finalist team. He instantly turns the Avs into a serious contender.

I can understand pointing the finger on his average regular season stats, but downplaying is playoff play his downright foolish.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

So I guess Pastrnak and Mackinnon aren't playoff performer because they never won cups?

He has .928SV% and 2.13 GAA in the past 4 playoff, what do you want him to do, have a .950SV% and sub 2GAA and win Stanley cup by himself purely by 1-0 scores?

Carey Price has been an absolute force in the playoff since 2017-2018, he is a difference maker between a bottom of the standing team and a Stanley cup finalist team. He instantly turns the Avs into a serious contender.

I can understand pointing the finger on his average regular season stats, but downplaying his playoff play his downright foolish.

"playoff God" don't move the goalposts

 

[Boondock]

I'm debating Price's value when healthy and with 50% retention. It's not rocket science

Unfortunately value isn't based on hypotheticals. Right now what we know is that Price not playing after a knee injury, is in the player assistance program, has a $10.5 cap hit for the next 4.5 seasons and is approaching the age where most professional athletes see a drop off in their ability.

As a Canuck fan I saw 50 threads where Tanev's value was trashed because of his injury history - he goes to Calgary and he's their #1D, but I couldn't really argue because he had 5 seasons where he averaged 60 games - those were the facts, so his value wasn't "a 100% healthy Tanev" because that wasn't what he was.

If Price comes back and proves he's healthy and the Canadians come out and say they are willing to eat the max on Price then maybe you have a debate, but right now your asking fans of other teams to be willing to give up important pieces for a lot of question marks that are being flossed over by yourself. The injury and personal concerns are real, the age concern is real and the cap hit is extremely high with zero indication that 50% is realistically on the table. With more questions around your debate than answers its difficult to have a productive real back and forth.

 

[Mandalorian]

"playoff God" don't move the goalposts

I never established the "playoff god" goalposts to begin with, quote someone else.

But if we go that way, and Carey Price isn't considered a "playoff god" , very few if any goaltender of the past 4 years are worthy of that mention.

He played less games than guys like Vasilevskiy and Rask because he played on worse team, but he still had better individual stats than them while playing 30+games which isn't a short sample size. A good comparable is Hellebuyck and he still outperformed him by 0.3 GAA in the last 4 seasons.

Funny how last playoff hfboards opinion was that Montreal run was only because of Price's exceptional play and the rest of the team supposedly sucked, but when it's time to talk about his playoff play, he just "doesn't suck as much as his teammates".

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

I think Rask could help the Avs...he might appreciate getting out of Boston.

 

[ConnorMcBackcheck]

Chicago trades Fleury to Detroit, who retains max and sends him to Colorado. Send some picks and call it a day. Throw in Kadri’s rights in the off season so Detroit can negotiate for the extra period.

 

[Islay1989]

Not true at all.

He had a .916 sv% or higher every season with the Avs. He was the reason we made playoffs his first year after we were outside the playoff picture halfway through the year until Grubauer stepped up and stole the starter role from Varly.

Kuemper has a below average sv% right now which doesn't even paint half the picture. He's among the worst starters in the league when it comes to GSVA or GSVA/60.

The Avs are an incredibly stingy defensive team that rarely gives up high quality chances, but with Kuemper in net when they do give up those chances they are getting less saves then almost every other team in the league.

Grubauer is the reason they made the playoffs? For a good chunk of season the Avs were winning despite getting horrific goaltending. That goaltending is the reason they get in at #8 despite outplaying other teams on nightly basis. If they weren't scoring 4+ goals it was an automatic loss. They made the playoffs because they had the 4th best offense among playoff teams in the west, not because of Philip Grubauer

 

[jay from jersey]

I never understood why the Avs would mess around with Kuemper .
When Gibson was available in the offseason, he was the exact guy they should have over-payed to get

 

[Hasbro]

I never understood why the Avs would mess around with Kuemper .
When Gibson was available in the offseason, he was the exact guy they should have over-payed to get

I highly doubt Gibson was available. He’s 28 and reupped on a good deal only two years prior.

 

[jay from jersey]

I highly doubt Gibson was available. He’s 28 and reupped on a good deal only two years prior.

Canes almost had deal done for him.
Somebody pulled out at the last minute

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

I never understood why the Avs would mess around with Kuemper .
When Gibson was available in the offseason, he was the exact guy they should have over-payed to get

I wonder if whoever the Philly GM is right now would be crazy enough to trade Hart.