Speculation: What (if anything) does Colorado do about their goaltending?

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I didn't insist on anything. It was a question. Two completely different things. Your just spinning it into a "I insist" narrative.

Days ago, I explained to you that there's no point in this conversation, because it's been beaten to death. You have absolutely insisted to keep "defending your stance" despite literally every Avs fans telling you that we aren't interested, no matter how much you try to hard sell us on the virtues of Price. You're the one who keeps insisting that you know more than everyone else, despite being absolutely unable to defend any of your claims with a single shred of relevant evidence. I'm still waiting for an explanation why Price can't outperform Dubnyk that doesn't involve blaming the team or mentioning Grubauer's struggles in Seattle. You've done zero to present your case in a convincing manner, and whining about my tone after I get annoyed by your constant bad faith arguments doesn't change anything.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

You probably disagree but I'm not "adding" value after the retention though. It's not like trying to move Lucic and retaining.

If Price can't recover from the injury to perform at the same level or declines quickly due to age (this is common; see Pekka Rinne); then it is like trying to move Lucic. Price at 10M is untouchable (in a bad way). Price at 5M is a high risk. To compensate for that risk, you have to adjust your offer price.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

If Marc Andre Fleury (Vezina Winner, with a 1 year contract) gets traded for scraps; Habs fans think Price actually has value LOL. You have to just keep him.

 

[McJedi]

If Marc Andre Fleury (Vezina Winner, with a 1 year contract) gets traded for scraps; Habs fans think Price actually has value LOL. You have to just keep him.

Even at $5.25mm for 4.5 years, I’d want a sweetener from the Habs to take on the Price contract obligations.

I think Sakic would as well. This Habs fan may not think stats matter but most NHL teams have invested seven figures in analytics and staffs that scrub performance metrics to find the best players and jettison the underperforming.

Sakic himself is a big believer in analytical analysis. He wouldn’t touch a player with as bad of underlying analytics as Price. Price has been a bad regular season goalie for several years. When Seattle passed on him for a minor league level defender off the Habs roster, that was Montreals last best chance to get out of his awful contract.

i doubt there is a GM out there that is willing to take Price assuming he’ll suddenly become a viable goalie that can consistently deliver good player for an 82 game season plus playoffs. His analytics tell you he’s not that player. Then layer in his knee injury, age and addiction issues and you’ve got about as toxic a contract as exists in the NHL east of Evandor Kane.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Even at $5.25mm for 4.5 years, I’d want a sweetener from the Habs. I think Sakic would as well. This Habs fan may not think stats matter but most NHL teams have invested seven figures in analytics and staffs that scrub performance metrics to find the best players and jettison the underperforming.

You know who probably wouldn't? Ken Holland. He's shown that he's open to trading for old guys.

The Habs won't retain 50% though. It's simple math that you don't even need analytics to figure out. The average NHL goalie costs an average of 5 million per season (roughly). So if the Habs trade Price to the Oilers at 5.25M, and then sign an average NHL goalie in the offseason for 5M, they have allocated 10.75M to their starting goalie. What's the point in doing that for an average guy when the option is to keep Price?

EDIT - In my haste I typed average goalie when I meant average starting goalie. Thanks to those who caught it.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

If I'm Colorado, I stay put in net and hope Kuemper figures it out. Playing behind the Avalanche is a lot different than playing behind the Coyotes. So, an adjustment period is not that odd to me

 

[McJedi]

You know who probably wouldn't? Ken Holland. He's shown that he's open to trading for old guys.

The Habs won't retain 50% though. It's simple math that you don't even need analytics to figure out. The average NHL goalie costs an average of 5 million per season (roughly). So if the Habs trade Price to the Oilers at 5.25M, and then sign an average NHL goalie in the offseason for 5M, they have allocated 10.75M to their starting goalie. What's the point in doing that for an average guy when the option is to keep Price?

I agree. I’m looking at it thru the Avs perspective.

But I’m also dubious of some Habs fans certainty that the Habs would retain 50%. Would they? Doubtful IMO.

And when the Habs see Price still has no value at 50% retention, why trade him? I highly doubt Seattle intended to take him and it’s done anyways. Didn’t happen. I aware of no more expansion drafts coming up so the last best chance the Habs had to get out of that contract didn’t happen for them. Now, their options to move Price are pretty much nil.

Price has been a below average goalie for several seasons. That’s before the addiction rehab and knee injury. He’s also 34 and not getting any better at that age.

It’s dang near impossible to see the Oil going after Price. They don’t have the cap space. They’ll target goalies with less term. There isn’t a logical landing spot for Price, even if certain despairing Habs fans insist there is.

the reality is the Habs will go thru their rebuild with Price on their roster. It will extend the length of the rebuild, which is obviously why they are fighting it. It’s not fun to accept your team has so many bad contractual obligations that you’re in for a several season stretch of lottery pick seasons. But that is where the Habs find themselves at this moment and one big reason why they have a new GM.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

You know who probably wouldn't? Ken Holland. He's shown that he's open to trading for old guys.

The Habs won't retain 50% though. It's simple math that you don't even need analytics to figure out. The average NHL goalie costs an average of 5 million per season (roughly). So if the Habs trade Price to the Oilers at 5.25M, and then sign an average NHL goalie in the offseason for 5M, they have allocated 10.75M to their starting goalie. What's the point in doing that for an average guy when the option is to keep Price?

The average NHL goalie cost 2.081M in 2020-21; please actually make factual statements.

Have to correct myself, average salary of a goaltender in 2020-2021 is 2.081M.

 

[ole ole]

The average NHL goalie cost 2.081M in 2020-21; please actually make factual statements.

There's not 1 goalie in the top 30 that is paid that low.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

There's not 1 goalie in the top 30 that is paid that low.

It includes back ups goalies.

 

[ole ole]

It includes back ups goalies.

I probably think he meant to say Starting goalies.
NHL Rankings

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I probably think he meant to say Starting goalies.
NHL Rankings

You're correct. I was using this source below.
Average starting goalie is definitely above 2 mill. I don't necessarily want to pay 2 average staters though, that's a bit too much dedicated to that position.

What is the Average NHL Salary? - Gaimday.

 

[DieselBoy]

The average NHL goalie cost 2.081M in 2020-21; please actually make factual statements.

Have to correct myself, average salary of a goaltender in 2020-2021 is 2.081M.

How do you not catch that? You really think the mean of the 60+ goalies in the league is over $5 mil.

 

[Ainec]

Trade for Fleury

 

[ManofSteel55]

The average NHL goalie cost 2.081M in 2020-21; please actually make factual statements.

Have to correct myself, average salary of a goaltender in 2020-2021 is 2.081M.

I misspoke. The average starting goalie salary is 5M. The Habs aren't replacing Price with bottom of the barrel backup.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I misspoke. The average starting goalie salary is 5M. The Habs aren't replacing Price with bottom of the barrel backup.

I agree with you that they aren't realistically retaining 50% for 4 years for the return they'd get from doing so, I just don't see why they wouldn't go bottom of the barrel if they did. If they are moving Price to avoid having him hurt the tank, why would they bring in someone good to replace him who could plausibly hurt the tank? I would think they'd be looking for cheap guy with the potential to be good enough for a tanking team that the tank isn't totally embarrassing. If you're going to spend $21m for the face of your franchise to play elsewhere in order to tank, why not go all in and really embrace the suck?

 

[ManofSteel55]

I agree with you that they aren't realistically retaining 50% for 4 years for the return they'd get from doing so, I just don't see why they wouldn't go bottom of the barrel if they did. If they are moving Price to avoid having him hurt the tank, why would they bring in someone good to replace him who could plausibly hurt the tank? I would think they'd be looking for cheap guy with the potential to be good enough for a tanking team that the tank isn't totally embarrassing. If you're going to spend $21m for the face of your franchise to play elsewhere in order to tank, why not go all in and really embrace the suck?

Because even if they don't want Price stealing them games, they don't want to become the team that doesn't even try to ice respectable team. It's one thing to go into a rebuild. Its another completely to throw away any semblance of pride the franchise has.

The goal if trading Price wouldn't be to prevent him from stopping the tank. It would be to rebuild and retool with younger guys and recoup some assets while moving as much of that 10M cap hit as possible.

 

[jackjohnson]

Bryam to Van for Demko and small add?

In your dreams, you wont get a vezina caliber young goalie and future US national team starter with just Byram. Add salt to wound you want Canucks to also give a small add

 

[jackjohnson]

If the small add is Petterson, sure

Such a funny guy. Didnt k ow Byram is worth a franchise goalie and a calder winner and #1 center. Should we also give you Hughes and my first born as a small add? Byram has not achieved anything yet as a rookie so slow your role

 

[teoberto]

Such a funny guy. Didnt k ow Byram is worth a franchise goalie and a calder winner and #1 center. Should we also give you Hughes and my first born as a small add? Byram has not achieved anything yet as a rookie so slow your role

Franchise goalie? Sorry mate, we have a greatly different definition of what a franchise goalie is. My post was, of course, provocative. But the offer asked for it. All good. Keep your “franchise goalie” and enjoy the season

 

[jackjohnson]

Franchise goalie? Sorry mate, we have a greatly different definition of what a franchise goalie is. My post was, of course, provocative. But the offer asked for it. All good. Keep your “franchise goalie” and enjoy the season

Demko is definitely a top 5 goalie and Canucks wont trade him. Byram is way too overrated if you think he can haul Petersson and Demko. JR would not trade Demko straight up for Byram one on one nevermind adding Petersson? hilarious. Its very tough to find a young franchise goalie on a cheap contract. Now watch how good the Canucks are, am definitely enjoying 6-0 under Bruce. The team was lead by a blind mouse in Green now we have an NHL level coach.

 

[ole ole]

Such a funny guy. Didnt k ow Byram is worth a franchise goalie and a calder winner and #1 center. Should we also give you Hughes and my first born as a small add? Byram has not achieved anything yet as a rookie so slow your role

I totally agree with you And Avs fans claim we are outrageous in our ask for our players.

 

[Muffin]

In your dreams, you wont get a vezina caliber young goalie and future US national team starter with just Byram. Add salt to wound you want Canucks to also give a small add

Goalies don’t have much value in trades while young D are like gold in this league. You do know Schneider was traded for a 1st round pick after a .927SV% season right? When was the last time a goalie was traded for a lot?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Because even if they don't want Price stealing them games, they don't want to become the team that doesn't even try to ice respectable team. It's one thing to go into a rebuild. Its another completely to throw away any semblance of pride the franchise has.

The goal if trading Price wouldn't be to prevent him from stopping the tank. It would be to rebuild and retool with younger guys and recoup some assets while moving as much of that 10M cap hit as possible.

I agree, which is why I'm thinking they'd want a fringe starter, and not Carter Hutton. Someone who can keep it respectable, but isn't expected to steal many games. Maybe a Bernier or Mrazek, or that kind of 1b level guy. Or a guy with injury issues, since losing their starter to injury would be the best of both worlds. They can still pretend they are doing something, while getting the benefits of purposefully tanking.

And, I don't see why they'd even consider spending $21m on retention to only save <=$2.25m in cap space per season, while not even getting the market value of the retention back in return. The only reason that kind of decision even remotely makes sense to me is if they are purposefully tanking, and view the retention as the cost of a near certain top 3 pick. I don't see how to justify it otherwise.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I totally agree with you And Avs fans claim we are outrageous in our ask for our players.

Considering that post was obviously hyperbole for effect, and your demands for every players weight in gold are genuine and sincere, this really isn't the "gotcha" you think it is.