Line Combos: What happens when Lars comes back?

[habitue*]

Ask yourself this simple question :

What would Therrien have done with his lines the last couple of games IF Eller would had not been injured ?

 

[Habs13]

Anyone else see the irony in someone using a Beliveau avatar but acting so un-Beliveau-like by shooting insults at David Desharnais for being short? Can he help that? Is there something he can do about his height? What's next, calling Malhotra dark?

I think you should stick to baseball there, coach.

Before this avatar, since I joined this happy ol' board, I have always had some form of Saku Koivu avatar... you know, because he is my favorite player and all that jazz. Sisu isn't exactly 6'8", kahwhaimsayin? So, yeah, keep on judging books by covers. I dislike Desharnais because he is a terrible hockey player - not because he is 5'8".

Oh you're judging my post based on my using the word wee? Well, when I wanted Hal Gill gone, I used words referring to his granduer and I didn't want him gone because he was 7'3"... but because he was a terrible player!

Anyway, have yourself a good day, coach.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sorry but what has Eller done to prove that he's clearly a second line center exactly?

He's produced the same offense at 5 on 5 that our 1st line center has but in a defensive role, no PP time and with mostly horrible linemates. Other teams know we haven't used him properly and that's why everyone is looking to pick our pocket for him.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ask yourself this simple question :

What would Therrien have done with his lines the last couple of games IF Eller would had not been injured ?

Impossible to answer because his lines have never made sense to begin with. We all know what the answer SHOULD be...

 

[Kriss E]

You're kidding right? I think everyone and their moms would take Hanzal over Eller.

Why? Because he's bigger?
Hanzal isn't an improvement offensively over Eller.

 

[Kriss E]

DD would get eaten alive on the wing. Little guys can play wing if they can battle, like St-Louis and Gallagher. Not DD. He is already on his ass several times a game, it would be worse as a winger.

What about Cammalleri? Ennis? Gerbe? Zucarello? Gionta bros?
There's plenty of wingers that are short in the NHL who can play on a 3rd line. DD would not get eaten alive. If he were to get destroyed on the wing, he'd have a harder time at center. It's even more demanding.

 

[Kriss E]

You don't HAVE to play him on the wing. If you play him with Galchenyuk and Gallagher or Galchenyuk and Sekac, they will be creative on offence with #27 carrying the play and distributing, but it will be Eller taking the defensive zone draws and battling guys like Malkin or Sharp in our own zone.

I see no problem with this. None whatsoever.

When we had Lemaire, Lafleur and Shutt, it was Lemaire who took the draws and neutralized the other team's top centers (along with the Jarvis line), but it was Lafleur who carried the offence and created most of the plays, distributing the puck where needed.

I want the team to win, not any one player being the primary focus of lineup combinations. We have had enough of that for two years with DD. Now that he is out of our top 6, let's not make a new player the unhealthy focus.

Team!

Eller is not a winger. He's our 2nd best two way center. Makes no sense to move him to the wing and keep DD on a sheltered third line.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Sorry but what has Eller done to prove that he's clearly a second line center exactly?

Outproducing our own 1st liner a couples of times.

He would have a similar production to DD if he didn't play with scoreless wingers for the first 12 games of the season.

The fact the is on pace for 20g as a THIRD liner with no PP so far this season.

Stuffs like that you know.

He has proved they went he had decent winger, he could produce.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Why????

We have three good centers, so use them the way they are supposed to be used. If we're short on wingers worry about that as a separate problem. Preferably by trading for a good one and unloading cap space onto the team we're trading with. Look for rebuilding teams and offer up picks and prospects.

That's certainly doable, Dawson's Guy, but this isn't the trade thread. We're discussing what to do when Eller comes back, in the context of our current roster.

Give me one or two more good forwards better than Lars, and I would be thrilled to have him on our third line that would be as good as most teams' second line.

But right now, I don't think Andrighetto, Prust, Weise, Parenteau, Desharnais or Bournival should be playing 15-17 minutes or more.

Throughout history, teams that have had several good centres have moved one to the wing. It's really not a problem for most fanbases.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

DD would get eaten alive on the wing. Little guys can play wing if they can battle, like St-Louis and Gallagher. Not DD. He is already on his ass several times a game, it would be worse as a winger.

And his line gets eaten alive in the defensive zone when he's at centre.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Eller is not a winger. He's our 2nd best two way center. Makes no sense to move him to the wing and keep DD on a sheltered third line.

I'm suggesting that one possibility is that we reunite the EGG line. Eller takes the draws and defensively battles the Malkins and Sharps as our 2nd best 2-way center. Offensively, Galchenyuk pulls a Guy Lafleur and does not limit himself to his "corridor", but rather takes control of the puck and how to distribute it.

On the PP, Galchenyuk would center Pacioretty and our 3rd best offensive forward, probably Plekanec at this time, maybe Sekac one day.

This has nothing to do with DD. It has to do with keeping Eller in the top 6. Pleks, Patches, Chuck, Larry, Gally and Cakes are our top 6 forwards.

I don't give a crap if DD remains as the third center or not. Let that be up to his performance. If he can keep producing acceptable secondary numbers while not getting killed defensively, then he stays. If not, then try Prust or Bournival there.

We need to stop forcing players into roles that may not be best for the team just to shut DD out. That is as stupid as artificially coddling him used to be.

 

[YYZdigital]

He's produced the same offense at 5 on 5 that our 1st line center has but in a defensive role, no PP time and with mostly horrible linemates. Other teams know we haven't used him properly and that's why everyone is looking to pick our pocket for him.

Why you gotta bring FACTS into the conversation?

 

[BaseballCoach]

And his line gets eaten alive in the defensive zone when he's at centre.

Not so far, but if it happens, then he will lose his spot. It's pretty simple, actually. Top 6 forwards play top 6 minutes. The rest battle it out to contribute what they can in every way, with limited minutes.

He's produced the same offense at 5 on 5 that our 1st line center has but in a defensive role, no PP time and with mostly horrible linemates. Other teams know we haven't used him properly and that's why everyone is looking to pick our pocket for him.

Don't look now, but Larry also has more goals than Galchenyuk, with less total TOI. I know that Chuck is more of a playmaker, so uniting them could even increase Larry's goal totals! It's all about our top 6.

 

[YYZdigital]

Not so far, but if it happens, then he will lose his spot. It's pretty simple, actually. Top 6 forwards play top 6 minutes. The rest battle it out to contribute what they can in every way, with limited minutes.

What do you mean not so far. He's already demonstrated he's terrible defensively in his own zone. He excels at back checking after falling on his ass and turning over the puck. Even then, if he doesn't get the guy with the puck, he is completely lost, always leaves a man open resulting in scoring chances for the opposition being out position.

But DD doesn't belong in the top 6. Galchenyuk, Plekanec and Eller are better centres than DD. Aside from DD fan boys (including MT) everyone knows this blatantly obvious fact.

 

[BaseballCoach]

What about Cammalleri? Ennis? Gerbe? Zucarello? Gionta bros?
There's plenty of wingers that are short in the NHL who can play on a 3rd line. DD would not get eaten alive. If he were to get destroyed on the wing, he'd have a harder time at center. It's even more demanding.

Snipers can play the wing. Or defensive specialists. Not guys with DD's skill set.

I'm really not sure why some of you want to force DD into a 3rd line wing position, which he will suck at, in order to allow Eller to play on the third line with the very same failed LW, and with limited minutes.

Why do that to Eller? He deserves better.

 

[BaseballCoach]

What do you mean not so far. He's already demonstrated he's terrible defensively in his own zone. He excels at back checking after falling on his ass and turning over the puck. Even then, if he doesn't get the guy with the puck, he is completely lost, always leaves a man open resulting in scoring chances for the opposition being out position.

But DD doesn't belong in the top 6. Galchenyuk, Plekanec and Eller are better centres than DD. Aside from DD fan boys (including MT) everyone knows this blatantly obvious fact.

What do I mean not so far? I mean so far this season, DD has not been on the ice for very many GA. Not even in the past 7 periods having lost his top-6 position has he been a minus player.

DD is ok in limited minutes. A serviceable NHL player with some experience. But if he falters, and the goals against start to pile up on us, replace him!

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

I'm suggesting that one possibility is that we reunite the EGG line. Eller takes the draws and defensively battles the Malkins and Sharps as our 2nd best 2-way center. Offensively, Galchenyuk pulls a Guy Lafleur and does not limit himself to his "corridor", but rather takes control of the puck and how to distribute it.

On the PP, Galchenyuk would center Pacioretty and our 3rd best offensive forward, probably Plekanec at this time, maybe Sekac one day.

This has nothing to do with DD. It has to do with keeping Eller in the top 6. Pleks, Patches, Chuck, Larry, Gally and Cakes are our top 6 forwards.

I don't give a crap if DD remains as the third center or not. Let that be up to his performance. If he can keep producing acceptable secondary numbers while not getting killed defensively, then he stays. If not, then try Prust or Bournival there.

We need to stop forcing players into roles that may not be best for the team just to shut DD out. That is as stupid as artificially coddling him used to be.

Impossible for Eller and Galchenyuk to play together and have them both play puck possession. Eller is a puck hog, cannot play him with other players that want to carry the puck

 

[BaseballCoach]

But DD doesn't belong in the top 6. Galchenyuk, Plekanec and Eller are better centres than DD. Aside from DD fan boys (including MT) everyone knows this blatantly obvious fact.

Yeah, and did I say otherwise? I don't want DD in the top 6 either. He has worked hard enough to have earned the right to compete for a secondary role. If he succeeds, he stays, if he fails, he is cut back further or cut out entirely. What can't you understand about my position?

 

[paddy]

I'm suggesting that one possibility is that we reunite the EGG line. Eller takes the draws and defensively battles the Malkins and Sharps as our 2nd best 2-way center. Offensively, Galchenyuk pulls a Guy Lafleur and does not limit himself to his "corridor", but rather takes control of the puck and how to distribute it.

On the PP, Galchenyuk would center Pacioretty and our 3rd best offensive forward, probably Plekanec at this time, maybe Sekac one day.

This has nothing to do with DD. It has to do with keeping Eller in the top 6. Pleks, Patches, Chuck, Larry, Gally and Cakes are our top 6 forwards.

I don't give a crap if DD remains as the third center or not. Let that be up to his performance. If he can keep producing acceptable secondary numbers while not getting killed defensively, then he stays. If not, then try Prust or Bournival there.

We need to stop forcing players into roles that may not be best for the team just to shut DD out. That is as stupid as artificially coddling him used to be.

Put Galchenyuk with Eller and Sekac and after 10 games, they will become our first line for the rest of the year.

27-81-26

 

[BaseballCoach]

Impossible for Eller and Galchenyuk to play together and have them both play puck possession. Eller is a puck hog, cannot play him with other players that want to carry the puck

Eller needs to learn to hog the puck less anyway, no matter who he plays with. It's what is holding him back from being an even better player than he already is. We've seen him start to pass to Sekac, so maybe there is hope for the guy. If he has linemates better at puck control than Bourque, Moen, Weise, Darche, Blunden and so forth, he might continue to pass some more!

 

[BaseballCoach]

Put Galchenyuk with Eller and Sekac and after 10 games, they will become our first line for the rest of the year.

27-81-26

That might also work. Sekac is better than Gallagher defensively too. But it puts two smaller guys on the "second" line - with Patches of course!

I actually see the two RWs as being guys that could be switched occasionally either way.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm suggesting that one possibility is that we reunite the EGG line. Eller takes the draws and defensively battles the Malkins and Sharps as our 2nd best 2-way center. Offensively, Galchenyuk pulls a Guy Lafleur and does not limit himself to his "corridor", but rather takes control of the puck and how to distribute it.

On the PP, Galchenyuk would center Pacioretty and our 3rd best offensive forward, probably Plekanec at this time, maybe Sekac one day.

This has nothing to do with DD. It has to do with keeping Eller in the top 6. Pleks, Patches, Chuck, Larry, Gally and Cakes are our top 6 forwards.

I don't give a crap if DD remains as the third center or not. Let that be up to his performance. If he can keep producing acceptable secondary numbers while not getting killed defensively, then he stays. If not, then try Prust or Bournival there.

We need to stop forcing players into roles that may not be best for the team just to shut DD out. That is as stupid as artificially coddling him used to be.

Galchenyuk is a center. Eller is a center. Who's forcing who into roles here?
You're suggesting having them flip flop around when they transition from offense to defense. Both of those guys are better suited at center. So use them there.
If DD sucks on the wing, then find him a new home.
We're not going to put Eller on the wing or Galy there just so you can have them all in the top 6. There's nothing wrong with having Eller center the 3rd line.
Eller plays on average 2 shifts less than Plekanec/DD at ES. There's not a major ice time difference. Give him some PP time, that's where he gets screwed.
You can put the EGG line together on the PP.

Snipers can play the wing. Or defensive specialists. Not guys with DD's skill set.

I'm really not sure why some of you want to force DD into a 3rd line wing position, which he will suck at, in order to allow Eller to play on the third line with the very same failed LW, and with limited minutes.

Why do that to Eller? He deserves better.

I'm not forcing DD into a role. He's the odd man out. So either you remove him from the line up, or he moves to the wing. Put him on the 3rd or 2nd or whatever, but Galch-Plek-Eller should remain our 3 centers.

As I said, Eller just plays 2 shifts less at ES than the 2 centers ahead of him. It's not really limited minutes at ES. He gets no PP time, that's where he could really get more ice time.

 

[InTheWrist]

If Bournival remains in the lineup;

Max Pacioretty / Tomas Plekanec / Brendan Gallagher
Alex Galchenyuk / Lars Eller / Jiri Sekac
Michael Bournival/ David Desharnais / P-A Parenteau
Brandon Prust / Manny Malhotra / Dale Weise
Sven Andrighetto

If Andrighetto remains;

Max Pacioretty / David Desharnais / P-A Parenteau
Alex Galchenyuk / Tomas Plekanec / Brendan Gallagher
Jiri Sekac / Lars Eller / Sven Andrighetto
Brandon Prust / Manny Malhotra / Dale Weise
Michael Bournival

 

[Ezpz]

There is no scenario in which DD should go back to the top line.

 

[Lshap]

Eller needs to learn to hog the puck less anyway, no matter who he plays with. It's what is holding him back from being an even better player than he already is. We've seen him start to pass to Sekac, so maybe there is hope for the guy. If he has linemates better at puck control than Bourque, Moen, Weise, Darche, Blunden and so forth, he might continue to pass some more!

That's my issue with Eller - the perception that he's a puck-hog. I don't buy it. The underlying problem is that he can't always spot the open winger. He circles and spins because he doesn't know where to pass the puck. Part of the problem is his wingers, who've been rotated so often they have zero chemistry, or are simply bad players who are out of position. But part is Eller's fault. He's one of those players whose game swings from dominant to lost depending on his mindset. His body often moves faster than his brain, and the play dies before it has a chance to start. Focus, vision -- things he can definitely improve upon. But he's 25, already in his prime, and now that it appears he'll have good wingers it's time to see if he has an undiscovered upside, or if he'll remain a solid two-way 3rd line C who'll top out at 30-some points. I've said this last year and the year before, but this time I really mean it: This is your year, Lars. At some point you're not the potential, you're the results.