Line Combos: What happens when Lars comes back?

[BLONG7]

There is no scenario in which DD should go back to the top line.

Absolutely agree...he has finally been pushed down the depth chart, not because he is awful, it's just where he should be...

 

[BaseballCoach]

Galchenyuk is a center. Eller is a center. Who's forcing who into roles here?
You're suggesting having them flip flop around when they transition from offense to defense. Both of those guys are better suited at center. So use them there.
If DD sucks on the wing, then find him a new home.
We're not going to put Eller on the wing or Galy there just so you can have them all in the top 6. There's nothing wrong with having Eller center the 3rd line.
Eller plays on average 2 shifts less than Plekanec/DD at ES. There's not a major ice time difference. Give him some PP time, that's where he gets screwed.
You can put the EGG line together on the PP.



I'm not forcing DD into a role. He's the odd man out. So either you remove him from the line up, or he moves to the wing. Put him on the 3rd or 2nd or whatever, but Galch-Plek-Eller should remain our 3 centers.

As I said, Eller just plays 2 shifts less at ES than the 2 centers ahead of him. It's not really limited minutes at ES. He gets no PP time, that's where he could really get more ice time.

AG27 is only 20 years old. He's not going to be given that much rope at 1C. If his line continues not to produce, he will be back at wing. Then you better PRAY that MT sees Pleks and Eller as his top 2 Cs.

 

[pepperMonkey]

Eller is our fourth best forward, possibly fifth if you put Gallagher ahead of him, but I don't.

Fourth?
I see Patches, Galch, Pleks and Sekac as all being better... Which would make Eller 5th.. And if Gally is also better, Eller would be 6th. And if Sven continues to shine, he may also be better...
Sorry, unless Eller becomes a winger, I just don't see Eller being in the top 6. And frankly, I would much rather deal with Galch's growing pains as 1st C than to see Eller centering Galch.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's certainly doable, Dawson's Guy, but this isn't the trade thread. We're discussing what to do when Eller comes back, in the context of our current roster.

Give me one or two more good forwards better than Lars, and I would be thrilled to have him on our third line that would be as good as most teams' second line.

But right now, I don't think Andrighetto, Prust, Weise, Parenteau, Desharnais or Bournival should be playing 15-17 minutes or more.

Throughout history, teams that have had several good centres have moved one to the wing. It's really not a problem for most fanbases.

If we're going to do that, and we had to move a center. then move DD to the wing. Personally, I'd just bench DD and let the kids play. But if we had to move a center to wing it shouldn't be the three guys who are good at it.

The real answer though is we make a trade. That's what has to happen here. We get a real winger and DD goes back the other way or has a ticket to Hamilton.

We need to stop forcing players into roles that may not be best for the team just to shut DD out. That is as stupid as artificially coddling him used to be.

I think you've got this backwards... we're sitting around talking about forcing players into roles that aren't best for them so that we can have DD in the lineup. Reality is that he shouldn't be in the lineup at all and that we've got three guys who should play center in the top 9 who should be - playing center.

We shouldn't be trying to make room for Davey because he's not worth making room for. If they want to try him on the wing... okay I guess. But he's not a winger and we're just hurting ourselves by doing this. Eller shouldn't be moved and neither should Galchenyuk, they are important players who should be playing to their strengths. I wouldn't want to pull them from those roles just so we can 'get Davey going.' Seriously who gives a **** about Davey? I don't. I care about the team and Davey doesn't really help us except as an injury replacement. Time to move on.

That's my issue with Eller - the perception that he's a puck-hog. I don't buy it. The underlying problem is that he can't always spot the open winger. He circles and spins because he doesn't know where to pass the puck. Part of the problem is his wingers, who've been rotated so often they have zero chemistry, or are simply bad players who are out of position. But part is Eller's fault. He's one of those players whose game swings from dominant to lost depending on his mindset. His body often moves faster than his brain, and the play dies before it has a chance to start. Focus, vision -- things he can definitely improve upon. But he's 25, already in his prime, and now that it appears he'll have good wingers it's time to see if he has an undiscovered upside, or if he'll remain a solid two-way 3rd line C who'll top out at 30-some points. I've said this last year and the year before, but this time I really mean it: This is your year, Lars. At some point you're not the potential, you're the results.

He's played most of his career with ****** wingers. He produced on the EGG line and he produced with Sekac - he just hasn't had much in the way of offensive opportunities under this coach.

 

[pepperMonkey]

Snipers can play the wing. Or defensive specialists. Not guys with DD's skill set.

I'm really not sure why some of you want to force DD into a 3rd line wing position, which he will suck at, in order to allow Eller to play on the third line with the very same failed LW, and with limited minutes

Umm. DD has already played wing during the start of his NHL career... And unless I'm mistaken, he did fairly well... And now that he has been in the NHL for about 5 years, you expect him to be worse now?

 

[Lshap]

He's played most of his career with ****** wingers. He produced on the EGG line and he produced with Sekac - he just hasn't had much in the way of offensive opportunities under this coach.

Don't disagree, but if this is the season Eller plays with good wingers, it's also the season he becomes what he does, and not what we imagine he can do. Blaming it all on bad wingers is too easy of an answer. Yes, he can be a beast, but can also get lost out there, and it often has nothing to do with wingers.

 

[Kriss E]

AG27 is only 20 years old. He's not going to be given that much rope at 1C. If his line continues not to produce, he will be back at wing. Then you better PRAY that MT sees Pleks and Eller as his top 2 Cs.

They went one game without producing, out of two. Therrien will do whatever he wants, it's irrelevant to the discussion really as we're more talking about what we would/should do, and moving Eller to the wing doesn't make sense.

 

[DAChampion]

The best case scenario for this team is that Galchenyuk turn into a top-15 first line centre.

That is obvious, as such I expect his try out at centre to continue another 10 games at least.

 

[BaseballCoach]

If we're going to do that, and we had to move a center. then move DD to the wing......

We shouldn't be trying to make room for Davey because he's not worth making room for. If they want to try him on the wing... okay I guess. But he's not a winger and we're just hurting ourselves by doing this.

You repeatedly refuse to read what I wrote. I keep saying that me putting Eller in the top 6 is entirely about Eller and has nothing to do with DD. You could Bench DD and I would STILL say that Eller should be in the top 6, even if it means playing him or Chuck on the wing sometimes. If DD fails as 3C, play Prust or Bournival as 3C instead.

Eller is a talented player who is coming into his own, has shown scoring ability with little PP time, and can shut down other teams's good players. Nothing wrong with an EGG line again, or an EG-and-Cakes line. If MT gives him the green light to be creative, like he said in the presser last week, Galchenyuk will be the Guy Lafleur type and play like a C anyway on offence.

On the PP, let Chuck center Pacioretty and our 3rd best offensive F, whoever that is.

What is the idea of cutting Eller's minutes by putting him on the third line? To ensure that Galchenyuk is guaranteed the 1C job? Haven't we learned already about guarantees? Right now, on merit, our top six forwards should be, in order of minutes, IMO:

14
67
27
81
11/26
26/11

Four impressive shifts in three games is not enough for the club to annoint Sven the Italian Swiss a top 6 fixture yet!

 

[BaseballCoach]

The best case scenario for this team is that Galchenyuk turn into a top-15 first line centre.

That is obvious, as such I expect his try out at centre to continue another 10 games at least.

Ten more games isn't going to solidify Galchenyuk and his considerable sizzle as a Top-15 center, AAA Grade Steak. I think it is more likely for Chuck to register 5-7 points than 10 or more, during those 10 games. And if that happens, then what? Put DD back at Top-6 center? NOOOOOOOOOOO!

Our top-2 centremen right now are Plekanec and Eller. Until Eller is back and in top form, by all means give Chuck some experience. But if you don't want to listen to me, how about Vincent Damphousse? He should know as he played both C and LW throughout his career, VERY WELL, with more LW at the beginning. Damphousse has repeatedly said that the club risks NOTHING playing Chuck at LW, and that what matters most is for Alex to develop his offensive skills, his shot and finish in general. You don't need to take faceoffs or battle Malkin and Sharp to develop finish. You need lots of minutes and good linemates. Position does not matter that much.

I understand people here have an allergic reaction to Chuck on LW because they are so used to criticizing DD as a top-6 center. But hopefully those days are over, and we can try to be objective about what is best for the team. What is best for the team is for Alex G to keep raising his game, and for the team to allow this to happen without sacrificing wins by overplaying an Andrighetto or Parenteau or both instead of Eller.

 

[Sorinth]

You repeatedly refuse to read what I wrote. I keep saying that me putting Eller in the top 6 is entirely about Eller and has nothing to do with DD. You could Bench DD and I would STILL say that Eller should be in the top 6, even if it means playing him or Chuck on the wing sometimes. If DD fails as 3C, play Prust or Bournival as 3C instead.

Eller is a talented player who is coming into his own, has shown scoring ability with little PP time, and can shut down other teams's good players. Nothing wrong with an EGG line again, or an EG-and-Cakes line. If MT gives him the green light to be creative, like he said in the presser last week, Galchenyuk will be the Guy Lafleur type and play like a C anyway on offence.

On the PP, let Chuck center Pacioretty and our 3rd best offensive F, whoever that is.

What is the idea of cutting Eller's minutes by putting him on the third line? To ensure that Galchenyuk is guaranteed the 1C job? Haven't we learned already about guarantees? Right now, on merit, our top six forwards should be, in order of minutes, IMO:

14
67
27
81
11/26
26/11

Four impressive shifts in three games is not enough for the club to annoint Sven the Italian Swiss a top 6 fixture yet!

I agree that Eller is capable of being a top-6 center, but the bottom line is there are two centers that are better than him. And since he's always looked lost on wing it's tough luck for him. But being on the 3rd line doesn't mean he has to play < 15min a game.

Staal was getting 18-19 minutes in Pittsburgh on the 3rd line behind Crosby & Malkin. Really the only thing we need to do is ensure Eller gets his share of PP time and his minutes will be in 16-17 range like they should be. But Therrien doesn't seem willing to use a PP specific line, instead he just uses his ES lines on the PP. Eller should also be getting more SH time then he is now.

 

[vokiel]

So when is he coming back anyhow?

 

[Hoople]

And his line gets eaten alive in the defensive zone when he's at centre.

Eaten alive.

Is that rhetorical or statistical?

If its statistical, you are mistaken. The number of goals scored while DD was on the ice is 15 (31 games). The only other forwards with a lower total are Weise with 11 (28 games) and Sekac with 13 (24 games).

And since this is the Eller thread, he has been on the ice for 22 goals (28 games).

Rhetoric or stats?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You repeatedly refuse to read what I wrote. I keep saying that me putting Eller in the top 6 is entirely about Eller and has nothing to do with DD. You could Bench DD and I would STILL say that Eller should be in the top 6, even if it means playing him or Chuck on the wing sometimes. If DD fails as 3C, play Prust or Bournival as 3C instead.

Eller is a talented player who is coming into his own, has shown scoring ability with little PP time, and can shut down other teams's good players. Nothing wrong with an EGG line again, or an EG-and-Cakes line. If MT gives him the green light to be creative, like he said in the presser last week, Galchenyuk will be the Guy Lafleur type and play like a C anyway on offence.

On the PP, let Chuck center Pacioretty and our 3rd best offensive F, whoever that is.

What is the idea of cutting Eller's minutes by putting him on the third line? To ensure that Galchenyuk is guaranteed the 1C job? Haven't we learned already about guarantees? Right now, on merit, our top six forwards should be, in order of minutes, IMO:

14
67
27
81
11/26
26/11

Four impressive shifts in three games is not enough for the club to annoint Sven the Italian Swiss a top 6 fixture yet!

Well for me I would say that the 2nd and 3rd lines could be interchangable. Just because MT has decreed the 3rd line to be a checking line it doesn't have to be that way. Give them all offensive opportunities and spread it out more.

I don't agree that Eller or Galchenyuk should be moved to the wing. What we could (and maybe should) do is load all these guys up on the PP some more. That gives those key players you're talking about the extra ice time that we're looking for on those guys.

No need to get all these guys loaded onto two lines. We've got depth at center, might as well take advantage of it. If we get a good winger we'll have three lines who can score and play 2 way hockey. Not many teams have that kind of depth. Still missing the superstar up front that would be nice to have but at least there'd be scoring depth to compensate.

 

[Hoople]

Snipers can play the wing. Or defensive specialists. Not guys with DD's skill set.

I'm really not sure why some of you want to force DD into a 3rd line wing position, which he will suck at, in order to allow Eller to play on the third line with the very same failed LW, and with limited minutes.

Why do that to Eller? He deserves better.

Labels.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Don't disagree, but if this is the season Eller plays with good wingers, it's also the season he becomes what he does, and not what we imagine he can do. Blaming it all on bad wingers is too easy of an answer. Yes, he can be a beast, but can also get lost out there, and it often has nothing to do with wingers.

Well that's why he's a 2nd line center and not a 1st.

 

[Hoople]

There is no scenario in which DD should go back to the top line.

Never say never.

Injuries happen in the NHL.

 

[Kriss E]

You repeatedly refuse to read what I wrote. I keep saying that me putting Eller in the top 6 is entirely about Eller and has nothing to do with DD. You could Bench DD and I would STILL say that Eller should be in the top 6, even if it means playing him or Chuck on the wing sometimes. If DD fails as 3C, play Prust or Bournival as 3C instead.

Eller is a talented player who is coming into his own, has shown scoring ability with little PP time, and can shut down other teams's good players. Nothing wrong with an EGG line again, or an EG-and-Cakes line. If MT gives him the green light to be creative, like he said in the presser last week, Galchenyuk will be the Guy Lafleur type and play like a C anyway on offence.

On the PP, let Chuck center Pacioretty and our 3rd best offensive F, whoever that is.

What is the idea of cutting Eller's minutes by putting him on the third line? To ensure that Galchenyuk is guaranteed the 1C job? Haven't we learned already about guarantees? Right now, on merit, our top six forwards should be, in order of minutes, IMO:

14
67
27
81
11/26
26/11

Four impressive shifts in three games is not enough for the club to annoint Sven the Italian Swiss a top 6 fixture yet!

As I wrote before, Eller plays 2 shifts less than Plek/DD at ES, he's already getting top 6 ES ice time. The PP is the reason why his ice time is low. Give him an extra shift at ES and regular PP time. That's all that needs to be done.

 

[Hoople]

That's my issue with Eller - the perception that he's a puck-hog. I don't buy it. The underlying problem is that he can't always spot the open winger. He circles and spins because he doesn't know where to pass the puck. Part of the problem is his wingers, who've been rotated so often they have zero chemistry, or are simply bad players who are out of position. But part is Eller's fault. He's one of those players whose game swings from dominant to lost depending on his mindset. His body often moves faster than his brain, and the play dies before it has a chance to start. Focus, vision -- things he can definitely improve upon. But he's 25, already in his prime, and now that it appears he'll have good wingers it's time to see if he has an undiscovered upside, or if he'll remain a solid two-way 3rd line C who'll top out at 30-some points. I've said this last year and the year before, but this time I really mean it: This is your year, Lars. At some point you're not the potential, you're the results.

Assists....

DD - 14
Pleks - 13
Chucky - 12
Eller - 4

 

[hersky77]

Never say never.

Injuries happen in the NHL.

Without injuries he should be nowhere near the top six

The pecking order at center when Eller comes back is this
1)Pleks- still our best center
2) Chuck
3) Eller
4) Manny
5) dave

The only logical spot for him is the second line wing, and push gally down to play with eller, or keep him on the wing with eller and pa.

 

[hersky77]

Assists....

DD - 14
Pleks - 13
Chucky - 12
Eller - 4

Who has DD played with, who has Eller played with.

One started the season with the blackhole on his wing, the other played with a 39 goal scorer.

 

[Hoople]

Who has DD played with, who has Eller played with.

One started the season with the blackhole on his wing, the other played with a 39 goal scorer.

OK, explain Pleks then.

Or Chucky. Or Pacioretty, Gallagher, Sekac, Prust (played a lot on the black hole line), Weise, PAP. All of those Habs forwards have more assists than Eller.

 

[hersky77]

OK, explain Pleks then.

Or Chucky. Or Pacioretty, Gallagher, Sekac, Prust (played a lot on the black hole line), Weise, PAP. All of those Habs forwards have more assists than Eller.

Pleks and chuck were facing other teams top lines and going up against them. Eller was going up against teams top lines as well. If anything dave should have more then 14 assists, he got charmin soft assignments. Even then he couldnt produce.

 

[Windymind]

André Savard mentions that: If Galchenyuk can play center, he would trade Eller. He would trade Eller rather than DD because he has more value than DD in the market. Any thoughts?

http://www.rds.ca/vidéos/hockey/lnh/canadiens/s30-en-prolongation-le-ch-doit-transiger-3.1109958

 

[Ezpz]

If the goal is to win the cup why do you trade superior players?