Line Combos: What happens when Lars comes back?

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Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
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Jeddah
We are so used to arguing that Desharnais is not top-3 that we are missing the fact that he is one of our 9 best forwards offensively.

If Eller is not in our top 6, then someone clearly less good has to be in the top 6. Why do we need to do that just to say we are playing Galchenyuk at C?

Eller is much better defensively than Galchenyuk and is suited to play big minutes. If we are willing to play Pleks with Patches and Eller with Chuckie, then Chuck could be the "center" in the offensive zone, with Eller winning board battles and cycling, but Eller could take the defensive-zone draws and also match up against the top centermen in his own zone where needed.

So:
Move Eller in top 6
Give Plek Patches.
Make Eller a winger in offensive zone.
Move Eller to center in defensive zone.
Move Galchenyuk to winger in defensive zone.
Move Galchenyuk to center in offensive zone.
Give Galchenyuk two different wingers.

All this so you can keep DD as the 3rd line center?? This really makes no sense.

DD is being somewhat sheltered on the 3rd line and is a uni-dimensional player. He's not even good at carrying the puck all that much, there's no reason for him to really be used as a center.
Put Eller back there, give DD a shot at the wing, I'd bet you he'll look the same. Complete them with PAP or Sekac.
 

Lshap

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Jun 6, 2011
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Montreal
There's nothing extreme about wanting your best players to play. He can be an injury fill in but he has no business being used ahead of Eller at centre. Nobody wants this guy and for good reason, he's better suited to the AHL.

Calling Desharnais an AHL player is extreme. AHL players don't get 50-60 pts in the NHL unless they're playing alongside Stamkos or Crosby (Pacioretty is neither). I've ripped on him plenty, and there's no question he's having an awful season, but he has superior vision and playmaking skill when he's on. The problems are 1) He's not on; and 2) We have better options at C.

But even if we disagree on the semantics, the end result is the same: DD should be on the 3rd line wing, or he should be gone. The Habs are improving and Desharnais's talent is obsolete, just like Briere, Moen, Gionta and Ryan White became obsolete. All legit NHL players who are simply not good enough for the direction the Habs are heading.
 

Naslund

Registered User
Jun 18, 2006
1,879
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USA
Patches - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Ghetto - Gangsta - Cakes
DD - Eller - PAP
Prust - Malhotra - Weise
Bournival

Bournival is not going to sit for Andrighetto. Andrighetto is back in the AHL when Eller is ready to go. He might get an extra game or two, but one game without a goal and he is sent down. It is fair? No, but the team is healthy and that's the way it goes with young guys. Andrighetto is not a difference maker yet, even though he scored a few goals to start his career. Bournival also went on a tear last year. It happens. Bournival on the line with Sekac and Plekanec will likely do just as well if not better than Andrighetto.

Andrighetto will eventually replace Parenteau or Desharnais. He will be back this year as soon as somebody in the top nine gets injured.

Patches - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Bournival - Gangsta - Cakes
DD - Eller - PAP
Prust - Malhotra - Weise
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
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Calling Desharnais an AHL player is extreme.
Only in this forum.
AHL players don't get 50-60 pts in the NHL unless they're playing alongside Stamkos or Crosby (Pacioretty is neither). I've ripped on him plenty, and there's no question he's having an awful season, but he has superior vision and playmaking skill when he's on. The problems are 1) He's not on; and 2) We have better options at C.
It's not just that he was playing with Max, it's that he played ultra sheltered minutes, had tons of PP time (with two of the best QBs in the league) and had the best wingers.

Good AHL players can fill in at the NHL level and have success if given the right opportunities. Kyle Wellwood would fall into the same category as DD... can have success if sheltered but can't be used any other way. That's what an AHL player is.
But even if we disagree on the semantics, the end result is the same: DD should be on the 3rd line wing, or he should be gone. The Habs are improving and Desharnais's talent is obsolete, just like Briere, Moen, Gionta and Ryan White became obsolete. All legit NHL players who are simply not good enough for the direction the Habs are heading.
Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm not going to sit here and say DD has no talent - of course he does! Kyle Wellwood has talent too. But they are limited in what they bring and can only really be useful under a narrow set of circumstances. At the end of the day these are guys who are borderline NHL players who shouldn't be used in key roles unless your team has no other options. The idea that we should play DD over Eller at center on the third (or any other line for that matter) is crazy.

As for him being on the wing... I just don't see the point of that either. DD isn't a winger, we should go get a real winger and try to win.

So much effort here to try to find a spot for such a mediocre player. Why does everyone want to bend over backwards trying to find a role for this guy? His role should be injury call up from Hamilton. That's how we should be using him. And I don't think there's anything extreme in saying this at all.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
77,164
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Patches - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Ghetto - Gangsta - Cakes
DD - Eller - PAP
Prust - Malhotra - Weise
Bournival
Eller loses Sekac and gains DD on the wing? And that's probably exactly what's going to happen.

I can't believe he hasn't Eller hasn't demanded a trade yet. :laugh:
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
21,098
9,476
Why put Chuck with Eller? Both are centers. Trade for a real winger and be done with it.

I'm not against a trade, so long as we get a great asset in return for a guy like Eller.

But more importantly, having five NHL centres is not a problem for ANY OTHER TEAM!!!! No other fanbase has people who will have a stroke over a guy playing wing instead of C.

Malkin has played wing at times, Stamkos has played wing at times. Jordan Staal has played wing at times. Patrick Sharp has played wing at times.

Enough already with this paranoia!!
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
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So:
Move Eller in top 6
Give Plek Patches.
Make Eller a winger in offensive zone.
Move Eller to center in defensive zone.
Move Galchenyuk to winger in defensive zone.
Move Galchenyuk to center in offensive zone.
Give Galchenyuk two different wingers.

All this so you can keep DD as the 3rd line center?? This really makes no sense.

DD is being somewhat sheltered on the 3rd line and is a uni-dimensional player. He's not even good at carrying the puck all that much, there's no reason for him to really be used as a center.
Put Eller back there, give DD a shot at the wing, I'd bet you he'll look the same. Complete them with PAP or Sekac.

If Eller is not in the top 6, who is the 6th guy after 67, 27, 14, 11, 26?
 

TT1

Registered User
May 31, 2013
23,859
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Montreal
Bournival is not going to sit for Andrighetto. Andrighetto is back in the AHL when Eller is ready to go. He might get an extra game or two, but one game without a goal and he is sent down. It is fair? No, but the team is healthy and that's the way it goes with young guys. Andrighetto is not a difference maker yet, even though he scored a few goals to start his career. Bournival also went on a tear last year. It happens. Bournival on the line with Sekac and Plekanec will likely do just as well if not better than Andrighetto.

Andrighetto will eventually replace Parenteau or Desharnais. He will be back this year as soon as somebody in the top nine gets injured.

Patches - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Bournival - Gangsta - Cakes
DD - Eller - PAP
Prust - Malhotra - Weise

ghetto gangsta cakes #1
 

habsfanatics*

Registered User
May 20, 2012
5,051
1
We are so used to arguing that Desharnais is not top-3 that we are missing the fact that he is one of our 9 best forwards offensively.

If Eller is not in our top 6, then someone clearly less good has to be in the top 6. Why do we need to do that just to say we are playing Galchenyuk at C?

Eller is much better defensively than Galchenyuk and is suited to play big minutes. If we are willing to play Pleks with Patches and Eller with Chuckie, then Chuck could be the "center" in the offensive zone, with Eller winning board battles and cycling, but Eller could take the defensive-zone draws and also match up against the top centermen in his own zone where needed.

There's no use coach, the minds are made up.
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
21,098
9,476
Baseball Coach you are coming off as not wanting Galchenyuk to be a C for the reason that you want Desharnais kept safe.

So:
Move Eller in top 6
Give Plek Patches.
Make Eller a winger in offensive zone.
Move Eller to center in defensive zone.
Move Galchenyuk to winger in defensive zone.
Move Galchenyuk to center in offensive zone.
Give Galchenyuk two different wingers.

All this so you can keep DD as the 3rd line center?? This really makes no sense.

DD is being somewhat sheltered on the 3rd line and is a uni-dimensional player. He's not even good at carrying the puck all that much, there's no reason for him to really be used as a center.

Put Eller back there, give DD a shot at the wing, I'd bet you he'll look the same. Complete them with PAP or Sekac.

I am fine with 27 at C.

This is not about DD being "safe". I am not one of the people who sees every decision through a DD lens, good or bad.

I want two things in the end. I want the top 6 forwards getting the most minutes. And I consider Eller to be in the top 6, unless and until we trade for an even better player without giving up one of our current top 5.

If we are running a top-6 who play 15-20 minutes each, and a bottom 6 who play 10-14 minutes each, then I don't want to do anything that puts a guy not ready for 15-20 minutes into the top 6, like Andrighetto or even Hudon, nor anyone not productive enough, like Desharnais, Bournival, Prust, Tangradi, Bowman or even Parenteau or Weise.

Once we have our top 6, who plays wing and who plays C can be situational decisions. Try different things to see what works best. Maybe the gain from 27 at C is greater than the loss of efficiency of 81 on wing. Or maybe it's the other way around. And if Gallagher can take some offensive-zone draws TODAY on the right side, and none of the Chuckie-vicarious-livers take offense, then why should anyone take offense if Eller takes defensive-zone draws? Hell, sometimes Malhotra takes defensive zone draws, while Galchenyuk plays wing or even sits on the bench, and no one complains much when it happens. So what is this THEORETICAL obsession with Galchenyuk having only one possible role and getting pigeon-holed into it?

Lemaire, Damphousse, Malkin, Sharp, J Staal, Stamkos, Marcel Dionne and even Guy Lafleur did/do all play wing some greater or lesser percentage of the time, but Alex Galchenyuk is not allowed to, even when only 20 years old and still learning, because fan-boys will go apoplectic? This may not be the most ridiculous notion I ever heard of, but it's close.

I don't care about only one player on a team. I care about the team winning. If there are games where the opposing teams' minute-eaters at C might over-match 20 year old Galchenyuk, then I would rather he play more minutes on the wing, than less minutes at C, and let Eller and Pleks handle the other teams' threats!

If using Malhotra to take a draw helps the team, I am for it. If using Eller to take a draw helps the team, I am for it. If using Eller and Plekanec to counter Crosby and Malkin helps the team, I am for it. If, in order to do these things, Galchenyuk must either play less minutes or play LW, I favour LW.

Why is saying these things controversial according to some here? Because Desharnais might play 10-14 minutes? If he does, because he EARNS that right, so be it! If he can't earn a support role, then bench him. In my book, DD has shown he is not a top-6 player, and it seems the coach sees that now. Good! But he deserves the chance for a lesser role, like any other player on the team, where he can contribute as much as he can. We don't need to pick on him anymore, or see EVERY DECISION as being "for or against DD".
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
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...58 so far...Ghetto's been playing wonderfully in a Top 6 role...

Bournival did for a short while last year, too.

I still see Ghetto as a guy I would rather not expect 15-20 minutes from, at this level. He has much to learn about the NHL game. Relax, and give him time! I'm not saying send him down, just give him a 10-14 minute role so long as he can handle it.

Eller deserves to be ahead of Andrighetto in the pecking order; the great Dane has contributed and can still contribute handsomely to the team.

Eller is even ahead of Sekac at this point in time, in my books, though I think Cakes will possibly surpass him eventually.

With Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Sekac in the top 6, that is enough guys 22 and under. Let the other three be Pleks, Patches and Danish. I am very happy with that!
 

habitue*

Guest
I am fine with 27 at C.

This is not about DD being "safe". I am not one of the people who sees every decision through a DD lens, good or bad.

I want two things in the end. I want the top 6 forwards getting the most minutes. And I consider Eller to be in the top 6, unless and until we trade for an even better player without giving up one of our current top 5.

If we are running a top-6 who play 15-20 minutes each, and a bottom 6 who play 10-14 minutes each, then I don't want to do anything that puts a guy not ready for 15-20 minutes into the top 6, like Andrighetto or even Hudon, nor anyone not productive enough, like Desharnais, Bournival, Prust, Tangradi, Bowman or even Parenteau or Weise.

Once we have our top 6, who plays wing and who plays C can be situational decisions. Try different things to see what works best. Maybe the gain from 27 at C is greater than the loss of efficiency of 81 on wing. Or maybe it's the other way around. And if Gallagher can take some offensive-zone draws TODAY on the right side, and none of the Chuckie-vicarious-livers take offense, then why should anyone take offense if Eller takes defensive-zone draws? Hell, sometimes Malhotra takes defensive zone draws, while Galchenyuk plays wing or even sits on the bench, and no one complains much when it happens. So what is this THEORETICAL obsession with Galchenyuk having only one possible role and getting pigeon-holed into it?

Lemaire, Damphousse, Malkin, Sharp, J Staal, Stamkos, Marcel Dionne and even Guy Lafleur did/do all play wing some greater or lesser percentage of the time, but Alex Galchenyuk is not allowed to, even when only 20 years old and still learning, because fan-boys will go apoplectic? This may not be the most ridiculous notion I ever heard of, but it's close.

I don't care about only one player on a team. I care about the team winning. If there are games where the opposing teams' minute-eaters at C might over-match 20 year old Galchenyuk, then I would rather he play more minutes on the wing, than less minutes at C, and let Eller and Pleks handle the other teams' threats!

If using Malhotra to take a draw helps the team, I am for it. If using Eller to take a draw helps the team, I am for it. If using Eller and Plekanec to counter Crosby and Malkin helps the team, I am for it. If, in order to do these things, Galchenyuk must either play less minutes or play LW, I favour LW.

Why is saying these things controversial according to some here? Because Desharnais might play 10-14 minutes? If he does, because he EARNS that right, so be it! If he can't earn a support role, then bench him. In my book, DD has shown he is not a top-6 player, and it seems the coach sees that now. Good! But he deserves the chance for a lesser role, like any other player on the team, where he can contribute as much as he can. We don't need to pick on him anymore, or see EVERY DECISION as being "for or against DD".


Excellent post explaining in many more eloquent words what I meant all along.
 

BigDaddyLurch

Have some PRIDE, Eric...
Mar 1, 2013
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Principle's Office
Bournival did for a short while last year, too.

I still see Ghetto as a guy I would rather not expect 15-20 minutes from, at this level. He has much to learn about the NHL game. Relax, and give him time! I'm not saying send him down, just give him a 10-14 minute role so long as he can handle it.

Eller deserves to be ahead of Andrighetto in the pecking order; the great Dane has contributed and can still contribute handsomely to the team.

Eller is even ahead of Sekac at this point in time, in my books, though I think Cakes will possibly surpass him eventually.

With Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Sekac in the top 6, that is enough guys 22 and under. Let the other three be Pleks, Patches and Danish. I am very happy with that!

...the issue is that Eller is far more effective at centre, as he's shown on multiple occassions...Larry is one of the best 3rd line centres in the League, why take that away??...
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
21,098
9,476
...the issue is that Eller is far more effective at centre, as he's shown on multiple occassions...Larry is one of the best 3rd line centres in the League, why take that away??...

That's fine, but there will be games where we need Eller to play top 6 minutes to counter another team's two scoring Cs. When this happens, I don't want us to lose games because we insist on Galchenyuk matching up against someone he can`t handle well enough. And I especially don`t want to see 27 play less minutes because of it either. He needs to play a lot.

So, I would rather have top-6 of 14, 67, 27, 11, 81 and 26 than 27, 14, 67, 11, 26 and 58/49/15/51/22/8.
 

BigDaddyLurch

Have some PRIDE, Eric...
Mar 1, 2013
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Principle's Office
That's fine, but there will be games where we need Eller to play top 6 minutes to counter another team's two scoring Cs. When this happens, I don't want us to lose games because we insist on Galchenyuk matching up against someone he can`t handle well enough. And I especially don`t want to see 27 play less minutes because of it either. He needs to play a lot.

So, I would rather have top-6 of 14, 67, 27, 11, 81 and 26 than 27, 14, 67, 11, 26 and 58/49/15/51/22/8.

...that's why we need Eller centring the 3rd line, so he can take some of the tough matchups off of Chucky's line's plate...Chucky-Patches-Gally can get better offensive matchups cuz Pleks Line & Larry's line can do alot of the heavy lifting while still being an offensive threat as well...we need the balance...
 

LyricalLyricist

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
37,919
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Montreal
When Eller comes back he will either be put at C or be put at wing depending on if DD's tryout at #3 is extremely successful or average.

In the end however, if Eller/DD fails they might put Galchenyuk back on the wing short term but I'm not particularly a fan of it.

I believe Galchenyuk should get an extended stay at C and IF he succeeded they should work around that. If he doesn't, they should try again after a trade. As of now, I don't think he was bad so his confidence will increase over time and we're better off keeping the same path going. No point turning back.
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
21,098
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When Eller comes back he will either be put at C or be put at wing depending on if DD's tryout at #3 is extremely successful or average.

In the end however, if Eller/DD fails they might put Galchenyuk back on the wing short term but I'm not particularly a fan of it.

I believe Galchenyuk should get an extended stay at C and IF he succeeded they should work around that. If he doesn't, they should try again after a trade. As of now, I don't think he was bad so his confidence will increase over time and we're better off keeping the same path going. No point turning back.

Do you have a problem with Gallagher taking some offensive zone draws when Galchenyuk is supposedly at C? Or Malhotra or Eller some d-zone draws?
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
21,098
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...that's why we need Eller centring the 3rd line, so he can take some of the tough matchups off of Chucky's line's plate...Chucky-Patches-Gally can get better offensive matchups cuz Pleks Line & Larry's line can do alot of the heavy lifting while still being an offensive threat as well...we need the balance...

OK, who will Eller be playing with when this happens, and why call it the third line? If they are playing against Crosby or Malkin, they will end up with top-6 minutes playing against them.

Please tell me which of our top-6 forwards should sacrifice ice time, so that the wingers on the "third line" can play more than them?
 

LyricalLyricist

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
37,919
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Montreal
Do you have a problem with Gallagher taking some offensive zone draws when Galchenyuk is supposedly at C? Or Malhotra or Eller some d-zone draws?

No, like you I'm not fixated on any particular thing. I have an idea of what the team requires in order to ice the best line up but apart from that I'm okay with it but the less complicated you make it, the better. As Price said yesterday "Keep is simple stupid". Going back and forth and having special conditions for different situations is harder to manage. In the end, these techniques can be useful and should be used to maximize the chances of winning but I'm not fond of making it the norm long term is all.
 

BigDaddyLurch

Have some PRIDE, Eric...
Mar 1, 2013
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OK, who will Eller be playing with when this happens, and why call it the third line? If they are playing against Crosby or Malkin, they will end up with top-6 minutes playing against them.

Please tell me which of our top-6 forwards should sacrifice ice time, so that the wingers on the "third line" can play more than them?

...what's wrong with Eller's line playing alot of minutes??...we're a Top 9 team, not a Top 6/Bottom 6 team; we've got the depth to play any of our 3 lines in most situations...who cares if Chucky's line only plays 17 minutes, yet gets a handful of points cuz they got better matchup starts, as opposed to 20 minutes but had to play against the other guys' top players and got no points/a couple points...rolling 3 lines is more productive for our game than rolling 2 heavy & 2 light/sheltered...;)
 

Lions999

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
1,379
0
Lines should be if we are going to keep DD
Chuckie Patches PAP
Eller Sekac DD
Pleks Gally Ghetto (bournival)
 

Teufelsdreck

Registered User
Sep 17, 2005
17,709
170
When Eller comes back it will be a pleasant decision for Therrien to make. It's nice to have depth at center,
 

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