What happened to Brodeur's legacy?

[Melrose Munch]

Not a great person.

 

[biturbo19]

I'm not sure why you'd say "purely as a goaltender" as though it doesn't factor into his overall positional value?

This reminds me of when people talk about a player like Erik Karlsson or whatever and pound their fist "A DEFENSEMAN'S JOB IS TO DEFEND! PERIOD!"

The reason it hasn't "caught on" is simple, most goaltenders just can't do what Brodeur did, it doesn't make Brodeur's value artificially lower. It's just really rare across hockey history.

I don't think it's that goaltenders today can't do it though, or wouldn't be talented enough if they dedicated themselves to it, so much as it's just not a worthwhile element to hone. It hasn't caught on because it doesn't actually fit with modern systems play.

There are plenty of goaltenders who add a little bit of value with their puckhandling today...but the value of what Brodeur did was fundamentally linked to a particular system and style of play that has all but disappeared, or at least radically evolved. Yes, Brodeur was declining later in his career in general, but the impact of his puckhandling and style of aggressive rebound control and save selection was waning significantly even for him by the end. It's not just a standalone ability, which is why it can't be fully extricated from the systems play he spent so much time behind.


I also think those people have a very fair point when it comes to discussing Erik Karlsson as a defenceman tbh. It's dismissive to me to ignore the fundamental role of the position as a primary factor in your evaluation of how someone plays the position. I don't assess how valuable a defenceman is by how great they are at quarterbacking a powerplay. That's a secondary or even tertiary consideration. It's something that a lot of Forwards are also terrific at. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Becoming Uncle Dad certainly didn't help

 

[Mike C]

Not a great person.

Can you elaborate?

I've never heard that about him but love the gossip mill!

 

[Felidae]

Can you elaborate?

I've never heard that about him but love the gossip mill!

Brodeur's first wife filed for divorce in the middle of the 2003 playoffs. There were rumors that he was having an affair with her sister.

Well, he ended up marrying said sister 5 years later.

Make of that what you will.

 

[PaulD]

While he was playing, he was a consensus top 3 goalie of all time. Roy, Hasek, Brodeur. You could put them in any order and no one could really tell you you were wrong.

Now a few years after his retirement, it seems he has plummeted down the all time rankings. Everyone has Roy/Hasek as 1/2 and Brodeur is only top 5 or top 10. The same tier as guys like Sawchuk or Dryden.

What happened?

On a play off series my top guys

Hasek
Roy
Dryden
B. Smith
Belfour

Marty B probably in the next 5. Don't know about anyone else but he has never been top 5 imo

Brodeur's first wife filed for divorce in the middle of the 2003 playoffs. There were rumors that he was having an affair with her sister.

Well, he ended up marrying said sister 5 years later.

Make of that what you will.

never knew this

Douche bag Brodeur

 

[Mike C]

Brodeur's first wife filed for divorce in the middle of the 2003 playoffs. There were rumors that he was having an affair with her sister.

Well, he ended up marrying said sister 5 years later.

Make of that what you will.

Not sure anyone gives a crap in terms of how they view him as a historical hockey figure

Look at Magic Johnson, still beloved after his escapades in locker room hot tub after games

Not to condone all that but womanizing is commonplace in the sports world but what the hell do I know!

 

[Xirik]

Not sure anyone gives a crap in terms of how they view him as a historical hockey figure

Look at Magic Johnson, still beloved after his escapades in locker room hot tub after games

Not to condone all that but womanizing is commonplace in the sports world but what the hell do I know!

Don't question the posters Moral superioritay!

 

[Ducks4Cup]

Don’t get this tarnished legacy talk. Every ‘greatest ever’ poll I see has Roy/Hasek/Brodeur. i just saw one on NHL twitter yesterday, And those were the three, it’s always those 3.

 

[MessierII]

I have him top 6. Hasek to me is in a tier of his own. I consider him a top 5 player ever. After that there’s some mix Roy, Tretiak, Dryden, Plante. Brodeur would probably be next.

 

[Felidae]

Don't question the posters Moral superioritay!

He asked why a poster said he's not a great person and I simply gave the reason as to why they might think that.

I didn't give any judgements, just laid out the facts as it happened. So not sure where you think I'm flaunting my "moral superiority".

 

[Cursed Lemon]

HF: "nobody ever considered Brodeur top-3"

Meanwhile on Twitter:

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

He’ll go down as the best St. Louis Blues goaltender in franchise history.

the hilarious thing is he won’t, because their first year the blues had glenn hall and then in year two added jacques plante.

when i was a kid (early 90s) there was a clear top three: sawchuk, plante, and hall. then as he filled out his career and eventually beat sawchuk’s record, roy made it a top four and soon after hasek expanded it to a top five. eventually brodeur made it a top six. but at no point have i ever seen anyone other than presentists who don’t believe in anything pre-gretzky ever suggest that brodeur was definitively top three.

I don’t think it’s a stats thing, I think every single one of his stats are better than Roy’s.

playoff wins?

 

[Korpse]

Broduer’s legacy lives strong. Imagine how Eddie Belfour feels. Guy gets no love, occasionally you see his mug shot.

 

[Brent Burns]

None of this is true.

If you believe this was true, then that explains what happened to his legacy since. Brodeur is well-considered as a top ten goaltender of all time, but top three is (and was) a stretch.

Sorry, but Brodeur was overwhelmingly part of the "top 3 goalies of all time", I am actually more surprised to find out he isn't anymore...?

 

[norrisnick]

He’ll go down as the best St. Louis Blues goaltender in franchise history.

the hilarious thing is he won’t, because their first year the blues had glenn hall and then in year two added jacques plante.

when i was a kid (early 90s) there was a clear top three: sawchuk, plante, and hall. then as he filled out his career and eventually beat sawchuk’s record, roy made it a top four and soon after hasek expanded it to a top five. eventually brodeur made it a top six. but at no point have i ever seen anyone other than presentists who don’t believe in anything pre-gretzky ever suggest that brodeur was definitively top three.

Good thing I scrolled through the pages before posting "Marty doesn't even get that because Jacques Plante exists..."

 

[Ace36758]

The guy faced 20-23 shots a game during his prime with the stingiest defence any goalie of that era had the pleausure of playing behind. Most of the shots he did face were of the crappy or less dangerous variety as it took a lot to get around the trap and be good offensively.

I believe records show the devils stats guy was a notorious shots under counter, which skewed the shots against lower at home. This has been shown looking at the home and road stats in brodeur’s prime years and would likely have at least some effect on his save percentage.

 

[Toby91ca]

the hilarious thing is he won’t, because their first year the blues had glenn hall and then in year two added jacques plante.

when i was a kid (early 90s) there was a clear top three: sawchuk, plante, and hall. then as he filled out his career and eventually beat sawchuk’s record, roy made it a top four and soon after hasek expanded it to a top five. eventually brodeur made it a top six. but at no point have i ever seen anyone other than presentists who don’t believe in anything pre-gretzky ever suggest that brodeur was definitively top three.



playoff wins?

Ah yes....I was only looking at regular season, but point stands....don't think it's a stats thing

 

[The Nuge]

He might have been in the top 3 back then, but he was also clearly #3 imo. Roy vs Hasek is a debate that will never end, but I can’t honestly recall any significant group of people trying to argue Brodeur at #1. Players will always shuffle around a bit and it makes a lot more sense to group Brodeur with the guys a tier down from Roy/Hasek. Kind of like how Crosby didn’t make it the “big 5” but he’s still very much in the debate with Ovi/Lidstrom/Bourque/etc for 5th best ever. That gap matters

 

[Brodeur]

Brodeur's first wife filed for divorce in the middle of the 2003 playoffs. There were rumors that he was having an affair with her sister.

Well, he ended up marrying said sister 5 years later.

Make of that what you will.

Not really a rumor at this point, it more or less came out during those playoffs. At the risk of sounding like a Spaceballs bit, it was her half-brother's ex-wife.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Hot take but Roy was the overrated one due to the defense in front of him. Not Brodeur.

A better picture of Roy is the Avealanches. Yes he was good enough to win a cup with on a stacked team. But led the league in nothing. Great goaler but not top 5 all time. The only difference from Roy to Chris Osgood is a bit more attitude.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Hot take but Roy was the overrated one due to the defense in front of him. Not Brodeur.

A better picture of Roy is the Avealanches. Yes he was good enough to win a cup with on a stacked team. But led the league in nothing. Great goaler but not top 5 all time. The only difference from Roy to Chris Osgood is a bit more attitude.

2001-02 NHL Leaders | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the NHL Leaders & Records including All-Time Career, Single-Season and Playoffs Records for the 2001-02 NHL season on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

36 year old roy, coming off his fourth cup and third conn smythe

 

[I am toxic]

While he was playing, he was a consensus top 3 goalie of all time. Roy, Hasek, Brodeur. You could put them in any order and no one could really tell you you were wrong.

Now a few years after his retirement, it seems he has plummeted down the all time rankings. Everyone has Roy/Hasek as 1/2 and Brodeur is only top 5 or top 10. The same tier as guys like Sawchuk or Dryden.

What happened?

The number of people who actually watched him play is dwindling, while the number of people who don't have a clue is increasing.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I don’t think it’s a stats thing, I think every single one of his stats are better than Roy’s.

Keep in mind Roy played more than 400 regular season games (and more than 100 playoff games) in a high-scoring era (mid 1980's to early 1990's) before Brodeur became a starter. Adjusting for era, Roy is well ahead of Brodeur in terms of save percentage, both in the regular season and playoffs.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Who is “everyone”?

I see Brodeur just a slight step under Roy and Hasek but he's solidly there as the 3rd best goaltender of that era. He was absolutely great.

When the Devils had a lead and Brodeur was at his best, it almost looked like the Devils were on cheat mode, with opponents trying to dump and chase and failing miserably to get results.

I wonder if his legacy was altered by the changes the NHL made to prevent the kind of puck handling Brodeur was a master of. His puckhandling would still be valuable today but back then you could do more damage when getting out of the net.