Speculation: What does Kyle Dubas do with less than 7 million dollars?

[Nylanderthal]

Just stop posting, there’s no defense or argument to be made here. Was a pathetic mistake at the time and is even worse now.

What I find pathetic is that people who don’t actively shit on the regime in every post, create stupid little names for the GM or for fans of the club who remain bullish on this teams future and don’t distort history by looking back with perfect 20/20 hindsight are treated as some inferior kind of fan and labeled as “dubites” seriously are you ten?

Then we lost hallander a pick and Kerfoot. When I look back at the expansion draft I see it as we lost hallander, a pick and Mcann. The Leafs did that to protect Justin Holl. This is my opinion at the time and now with hindsight I still think it was the wrong move. You can make arguments for both sides and that’s fine.

Liljegren was still a question mark but I think now with the knowledge it would have benefited him more to play more games last year. The Leafs could have signed some bottom pair cheap dman or gone with

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Dermott
Sandin Liljegren

You can flip Dermott and Liljegren if you want but I think they could have gone with that D. Mcann was only making 2.94 last season and if he crushed it you then flip him for assets that you could use right now. Before people go all crazy on me that’s just my opinion on what they could have done.

That’s not even close to correct, but if piling on more makes you feel better I guess have at it?

He has a wonderful, mythical world in mind, like Hogwarts or Lord of the Rings. He's starting to believe it, now he's said it enough.

Most of you complaining about how the Kadri trade worked out also want Willy traded and were definitely the loudest in wanting Foligno acquired last run for example. Then when it doesn’t pan out you turn around and shit on the team for trying something.
It’s miserable, fake and rather transparent.

Sadly, you don't get it. They didn't trade for McCann to protect anyone. They were exposing a F, so they shrewdly traded a fringe prospect and a 7th to backfill for either the loss of Kerfoot, or the loss of McCann.....they did not lose anything additional. The cost to maintain the status quo was Hallander and a 7th.


I really don't think that people who live in glass houses should be throwing stones.

It’s all these clowns know how to do, complain and throw shit at each other

Florida has a good team like twice a decade.

No shit it makes sense for them to go for it when they win the presidents trophy.

It's like the sens they'll go for it in the 1 out if every 6 years they have a good team before they sell everyone.

Considering we signed and then had to pay assets to get rid of Ritchie would it not have been smarter to aquire McCann for those two bottom tier assets and expose our 30 year old d man that we are reportedly trying to get rid of this year anyways?

They literally traded Ritchie and a 3rd for a RD who was projected to fetch around a 2-3rd rounder so the cost to “ditch” Ritchie was nothing really at all.
Why are a bunch of you navel gazing about an XD last year? The draft and then FA is literally a day away.
Jesus y’all are miserable.

 

[Racer88]

We didn’t lose Hallander and a 7th. We lost McCann, the guy that led an awful Seattle team with 27 tucks this past season who also would have been an RFA. That’s the guy we lost because that’s the guy Seattle took. Getting McCann for fucck all was a good move, letting him go was pathetic. No surprise there though. Your obsession with Dubass and defending him is kind of sickening. I really don’t get you Dubass defenders, I’ve never seen anyone so obsessed with a GM ever in pro sports. What’s funny about it all is that he hasn’t won a single playoff round.

I wish I would like this 10 times

 

[ACC1224]

If we protect mcann we'd probably go 7/3 instead of 4/4

Wasn't referring to protecting McCann but if Seattle chose Kerfoot instead.

 

[Racer88]

We very literally did.

No we didn’t. We had McCann and Seattle took him. There is no disputing that. What McCann cost us is irrelevant as it was a separate deal.
How many moves in a deal chain are you will to go back just to justify a bad Dubas Deal

 

[Nylanderthal]

Wasn't referring to protecting McCann but if Seattle chose Kerfoot instead.

Then they have McCann fill kerfoot’s spot in the line up for the season and probably are looking to move off him this offseason

 

[rocketman588]

Wasn't referring to protecting McCann but if Seattle chose Kerfoot instead.

If we protected McCann we would have had to go 7/3 no matter what because the 4 FWs plus him would be over the 4/4 limit so we also would have protected kerfoot within that 7

 

[ACC1224]

If we protected McCann we would have had to go 7/3 no matter what because the 4 FWs plus him would be over the 4/4 limit so we also would have protected kerfoot within that 7

We exposed both Kerfoot and McCann. Seattle chose McCann. I'm curious what the thought would be if Kerfoot was chosen by Seattle instead of McCann.
It doesn't change who they protected.

 

[rocketman588]

We exposed both Kerfoot and McCann. Seattle chose McCann. I'm curious what the thought would be if Kerfoot was chosen by Seattle instead of McCann.
It doesn't change who they protected.

Makes sense I assume we would have just taken the gift of 25 goal scorer in that case

 

[LeafEgo]

The change for our team pre and post expansion draft was Hallander and a 7th.

Everybody loses something in the expansion draft. Because the Leafs are a very good team, they were in a position to either lose a ~50 point middle-sixer or one of their top 4 defensemen. They smartly decided to use the Hallander and a 7th to acquire another ~50 point middle-sixer, which allowed them to protect their whole roster.

Even if you personally disagree with the decision to expose McCann, you can't take that decision in isolation while ignoring the trade that brought McCann in the first place, especially since it was specifically in order for him to be exposed. If you believe McCann is good enough to be this upset over, it would have to mean that the GM you're slamming made an amazing, massive win of a trade.

Though quite frankly, I don't know why we're this stressed over a guy who barely had more even strength points than Engvall.

I don't know who Jeremiah Holl is, but lots of GMs would protect Justin Holl - a right-handed 6'4" defenseman, signed to a solid deal, who effectively played on the top shutdown pairing of one of the best defensive teams in the league. Especially during the summer of everybody overpaying defensemen, and especially with no realistic internal or external replacement.

The expansion draft decision was 7/3 and lose Holl (maybe less) or 4/4 and lose McCann. It can be looked at in isolation because the Hallander trade had no bearing on the decision.

Pre expansion draft McCann was part of the organization, and post expansion draft he wasn't. That was the change to the team.

Looking at a separate event, the GM did indeed make an 'amazing, massive win of a trade' acquiring McCann. Maybe his best, but then quickly nullified it with a poor decision.

 

[ACC1224]

The expansion draft decision was 7/3 and lose Holl (maybe less) or 4/4 and lose McCann. It can be looked at in isolation because the Hallander trade had no bearing on the decision.

Pre expansion draft McCann was part of the organization, and post expansion draft he wasn't. That was the change to the team.

Looking at a separate event, the GM did indeed make an 'amazing, massive win of a trade' acquiring McCann. Maybe his best, but then quickly nullified it with a poor decision.

I think this is how most see it.

Makes sense I assume we would have just taken the gift of 25 goal scorer in that case

....and in bizzarro world logic we would have lost Kadri in the expansion draft.

 

[Mess]

We exposed both Kerfoot and McCann. Seattle chose McCann. I'm curious what the thought would be if Kerfoot was chosen by Seattle instead of McCann.
It doesn't change who they protected.

Well that's easy ..

Leafs traded Kadri and 3rd for Kerfoot, (and rights to Barrie whom they let walk), so had Seattle taken Alex then those same Leaf fans would have claimed Leafs paid Naz and a draft pick to follow along the same logic, as not losing McCann but rather the resources to acquire him instead.

To some this would seem like fuzzy logic but if you're looking for consistence then there you have it.

PS. However I expect that since Naz won a Cup, then they probably would have argued something else if Kerfoot had been taken by Seattle, because then there would be a whole lot more explaing to do, what Leafs GM was thinking there. The fact the Leafs were willing to expose the return from the Kadri trade alone opens a whole other can of worms for discussion, just to protect Justin Holl instead. Yikes I wouldn't want to be the one to have to defend that move.

 

[aingefan]

Thats more than fair..
Could have looked into free agency a bit deeper too. I really wanted hakanpaa last year and he came in super cheap

I did want to keep mccann at the time i thought he would look great on either line

Yeah, and they offered Hakanpaa the same deal he took by reports.

In the end they chose to keep the rarer of the players in question. Logical to me.

 

[ACC1224]

Well that's easy ..

Leafs traded Kadri and 3rd for Kerfoot, (and rights to Barrie whom they let walk), so had Seattle taken Alex then those same Leaf fans would have claimed Leafs paid Naz and a draft pick to follow along the same logic, as not losing McCann but rather the resources to acquire him instead.

To some this would seem like fuzzy logic but if you're looking for consistence then there you have it.

Seems pretty clear. I'm sure they're spinning something up at headquarters to dispute this though. That should be entertaining.

 

[andora]

Yeah, and they offered Hakanpaa the same deal he took by reports.

In the end they chose to keep the rarer of the players in question. Logical to me.

i didn't know we had offered a deal to him.

who is the rarer of the players? Holl?

 

[Apex Predator]

I think this is how most see it.


....and in bizzarro world logic we would have lost Kadri in the expansion draft.

Hallander and the draft pick doesn’t hurt the Leafs. It’s just part of the cost of doing business during the expansion draft. That’s why I include it when I say what we lost. It’s not a huge loss and I’m not losing sleep over it. I don’t understand why people are getting all worked up over this with me when I say that’s what it cost the Leafs.

 

[Racer88]

Well that's easy ..

Leafs traded Kadri and 3rd for Kerfoot, (and rights to Barrie whom they let walk), so had Seattle taken Alex then those same Leaf fans would have claimed Leafs paid Naz and a draft pick to follow along the same logic, as not losing McCann but rather the resources to acquire him instead.

To some this would seem like fuzzy logic but if you're looking for consistence then there you have it.

PS. However I expect that since Naz won a Cup, then they probably would have argued something else if Kerfoot had been taken by Seattle, because then there would a whole lot more explaing to do, what Leafs GM was thinking there. The fact the Leafs were willing to expose the return from the Kadri trade alone opens a whole other can of worms for discussion, just to protect Justin Holl instead. Yikes I wouldn't want to be the one to have to defend that move.

100% accurate . Makes me wonder how many moves some would be prepared to go back to prove it was a good deal.

 

[Nylanderthal]

No we didn’t. We had McCann and Seattle took him. There is no disputing that. What McCann cost us is irrelevant as it was a separate deal.
How many moves in a deal chain are you will to go back just to justify a bad Dubas Deal

Trade trees are a thing but that’s not at all what is happening here. McCann was acquired 48 hrs before the draft with the sole purpose of being insurance. The pens knew Seattle preferred McCann to Tanev so they removed the choice on their end and we knew that Seattle would likely take kerfoot as our draft board stood at the time so we added a a guy for peanuts to mitigate the loss. Considering they taped a clip of weekes and the fish monger saying kerfoot it’s not like it was slam dunk either way.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We had McCann and Seattle took him.

We had Hallander and a 7th, and that was traded for McCann for the specific purpose of exposing him to Seattle and protecting the roster.

The expansion draft decision was 7/3 and lose Holl or 4/4 and lose McCann.

The expansion draft decision was 7/3 and lose Holl or 4/4 and lose Kerfoot. Instead, they smartly used Hallander and a 7th to acquire McCann, which would allow them to protect both.

 

[Apex Predator]

We had Hallander and a 7th, and that was traded for McCann for the specific purpose of exposing him to Seattle and protecting the roster.

The expansion draft decision was 7/3 and lose Holl or 4/4 and lose Kerfoot. Instead, they smartly used Hallander and a 7th to acquire McCann, which would allow them to protect both.

So the total cost of doing business for the expansion draft was Hallander a 7th and McCann to keep the team intact?

 

[aingefan]

i didn't know we had offered a deal to him.

who is the rarer of the players? Holl?

Those were the reports as I recall, yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear similar offers on their way to Boosh.

And yep, I’m talking about Holl. Pretty good top 4 capable RD owed 2x2 at the time of the XD is rarer than complimentary left shot w-c’s making more.

 

[ToneDog]

Hallander and the draft pick doesn’t hurt the Leafs. It’s just part of the cost of doing business during the expansion draft. That’s why I include it when I say what we lost. It’s not a huge loss and I’m not losing sleep over it. I don’t understand why people are getting all worked up over this with me when I say that’s what it cost the Leafs.

Losing McCann in the ES hurts more than losing Hollander + 7th so we lost the later.

 

[andora]

Those were the reports as I recall, yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear similar offers on their way to Boosh.

And yep, I’m talking about Holl. Pretty good top 4 capable RD owed 2x2 at the time of the XD is rarer than complimentary left shot w-c’s making more.

Oh sorry i mixed up my thoughts

Not rare related to hakanpaa rare related to other exposed assets

Got you

 

[LeafEgo]

The expansion draft decision was 7/3 and lose Holl or 4/4 and lose Kerfoot. Instead, they smartly used Hallander and a 7th to acquire McCann, which would allow them to protect both.

False. 4/4 is what they did, and they lost McCann, not Kerfoot.

 

[ToneDog]

False. 4/4 is what they did, and they lost McCann, not Kerfoot.

He's not wrong. Funny as it may seem, Dubas took advantage of the Pens and made a great trade for McCann and used the better player to protect two lesser players (Kerfoot and Holl). Now that is some kind of 3D thinking.

 

[LeafEgo]

Trade trees are a thing but that’s not at all what is happening here. McCann was acquired 48 hrs before the draft with the sole purpose of being insurance. The pens knew Seattle preferred McCann to Tanev so they removed the choice on their end and we knew that Seattle would likely take kerfoot as our draft board stood at the time so we added a a guy for peanuts to mitigate the loss. Considering they taped a clip of weekes and the fish monger saying kerfoot it’s not like it was slam dunk either way.

That 48 hours is precisely the window where a bad decision was made.