What does Kucherov need to do to surpass Ovechkin and become the greatest Russian player to ever play in the NHL?

[Nadal On Clay]

He needs to pass Malkin first before he even goes near Ovy.

He most certainly will. He just needs to compile to do it.

 

[Herregud]

Player who comes out of regular seasons with 1.25PPG or more and is the #1 star of a dynasty that went to the Conference Finals 6 times. If he is not a Superstar with a season of 144 points in a very average team this season and being the 3rd active player in play-off points behind two legends who are 6 and 7 years older than him, I don't know not who is.

That is a weirdly specific, heavily biased definition. Ovechkin's definitely had more than a decade of superstardom to his name.

If you think Kucherov's 2014 and 2015 seasons are elite and worthy of the superstar tag, then you likewise have to accept that any seasons with at least those point totals for Ovechkin deserve the same description, yes?

Do you think Ovechkin wasn't a superstar in 21-22? 20-21? 19-20? 17-18? 18-19? Most of his 50-goal seasons? 12-13?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Consistency. Ovechkin was a superstar from the very first day and averaged 50 goals per season for the first 16 years of his career.

It really depends on how great Kucherov can be in his 30s now.

he missed 50 goals 10 times over his career and 4 times in his first 8 seasons. but he was a superstar right out the gate

Kucherov wins vs Matthews.

I would certainly hope that Kucherov would be the better Russian over Matthews

 

[WarriorofTime]

Curious what makes you say that. Kuch is one of the most driven and competitive players in the league, he’s been healthy the last couple of years after struggling with injuries earlier in his career, he just had a historic season at an age at which most players are already declining, and his game is the least reliant on physical attributes that we’ve seen since Gretzky. Unless he accumulates more injuries, decides he doesn’t want to play through a potential Lightning decline, or flat out gets bored, I don’t see why he wouldn’t continue to play at a high level for another decade or so.

Since he won’t be record chasing, he could just opt to go back to the khl in his later 30s but it’s a bit early to say.

 

[DaPhazz]

What did you expect him to do? He always looks bored and like he’s hardly trying - that’s just his personality on the ice, whether it’s a meaningless skills competition or the Stanley Cup Finals. And his game doesn’t translate well to competitions of that nature. If the league wanted personality and flashy skating/stickhandling then they went to the wrong person; it’s not fair to Kucherov to expect him to be somebody he’s not and then to treat him as though he went out there to ruin a bunch of kids’ days.

That's just his douchebag personnality, yes indeed.

No one in 20 years will talk of Kucherov, as good as he is now.

 

[WarriorofTime]

That's just his douchebag personnality, yes indeed.

No one in 20 years will talk of Kucherov, as good as he is now.

In 20 years, he will still be living rent free in your head.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

That is a weirdly specific, heavily biased definition. Ovechkin's definitely had more than a decade of superstardom to his name.

If you think Kucherov's 2014 and 2015 seasons are elite and worthy of the superstar tag, then you likewise have to accept that any seasons with at least those point totals for Ovechkin deserve the same description, yes?

Do you think Ovechkin wasn't a superstar in 21-22? 20-21? 19-20? 17-18? 18-19? Most of his 50-goal seasons? 12-13?

Problem of understanding.

I repeat : Elite Player since 2014/5. To 2014 at 2016, Kucherov already had the level of a Stamkos between 2014 and 2016 and even slightly above.

Superstar since 2017/8. He made a 100 points season. Thing that Ovi didn't made since 14 years and by far (no more 90). And after this, only sick performances with, in addition, titles and finals to boot.

Kucherov has more seasons as a Superstar. Ovechkin was a Superstar since 2005 until 2010, then Franchise until 2019 and Elite until 2023.

Kucherov was Elite in 2014/16, Franchise in 2016/17, Superstar to 2017/24. And his career is not over. He is at his peak.

None of Ovechkin's seasons after 2010 come close to Kucherov's level of play since 2017.

.

 

[AndreRoy]

That's just his douchebag personnality, yes indeed.

No one in 20 years will talk of Kucherov, as good as he is now.

They’ll talk about him long before they talk about any Habs player from the last ~30 years. Top-two player of his generation, greatest postseason performer of his generation and one of the greatest of all time, greatest playmaking wing of all time. While the Canadiens have likely been irrelevant for your entire lifetime.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Get his two-way game to the level of a Fedorov, and also his skating like same, and he'll be on his way.

 

[Leksand]

Get his two-way game to the level of a Fedorov, and also his skating like same, and he'll be on his way.

In some way you may be right, but Fedorov's peak is too short by all accounts. If what you're implying is right, Fedorov will be perennially underrated.

(This is my meta analysis and prediction. I am in no position to compare Fedorov vs. Kucherov, I like to read people who put their time in discussing.)

 

[CokenoPepsi]

What Kucherov needs is longevity.

6 or 7 years close to this level and he could do it.


On the other hand, Kucherov should have had 2 conn-smythe trophies but voters don't like him

No?

 

[Wings4Life]

It's already been said in this thread, but Kucherov will need to pass Malkin first.

He still has a ways to go.

 

[Herregud]

Problem of understanding.

Problem of arbitrary designation assignment as a prop. Kucherov is amazing, Ovechkin, he of the 50-goal 15-year average, has more than 5 seasons in the league as a superstar.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Problem of arbitrary designation assignment as a prop. Kucherov is amazing, Ovechkin, he of the 50-goal 15-year average, has more than 5 seasons in the league as a superstar.

So we don't have the same definition of Superstar. Mine is more restrictive

I don't see a season with Ovechkin as outperformers in the league after 2010. Goals are the argument that made him a Franchise player then an Elite player and currently Top 6. Seasons with 50 goals yes but with a not crazy shots percentage and only 20 assists in the next column. Kucherov has the talent to put 50-goal seasons. But he makes his teammates score a lot more.

Kucherov has been better than Ovechkin since 2016. Ovechkin at 31 was weaker than Kucherov at 23. And Kucherov at 31 is significantly stronger than Kucherov at 23.

A guy who outperforms the league is a guy who strings together 100-point seasons without forcing, who dominates in the playoff series. A guy like Matthews, I have a hard time saying he was a Superstar this year. And yet his regular season outclasses all of Ovechkin's seasons after 2010 by a long shot. Sam Reinhart, 57 goals, 94 points with 24.5% not superstar season too.

Kucherov is the guy who is the most productive after McDavid in the regular season in the 2017-2024 cycle and is the best playoff career player in the last 10 years.

It's a little worse than McDavid with 2 titles and 1 final more. So the best career masterpiece for 7 years. I can even extend it to 10 years with 1 more final.

 

[wetcoast]

He won't

This is guy feeling as well and although it's probably not fair to Kuch but Ovi was seen as one of the top players in the league and a real force in his prime, Kuch is seen much more as a guy who scores a lot and that distinction is quite clear in most people's perceptions.

To put it another way going into their respective NHL seasons in a throw everyone in the pool redraft from scratch each season at a time no salary cap restrictions Ovi is going to place higher than Kuch in many more seasons.

Although it will become more of a question if he adds significantly to his playoff resume and regular season prime but for many even that won't be enough.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

What Kucherov needs is longevity.

6 or 7 years close to this level and he could do it.


On the other hand, Kucherov should have had 2 conn-smythe trophies but voters don't like him

So hedman or vassy should get both taken away?

Prime ovechkin on the lightning and they might have 4-peat.

 

[ReimanSum1908]

Is he going to break Gretzky's goalscoring record?

No?

Then never.

 

[Nsjohnson]

Auston Matthews is on road to beat Gretzky's and Ovechkin's mark and yet he is weaker than McDavid and McKinnon, players whom Kucherov rivals.

Stop. He is on a road, but wait another 7 seasons and see where he's at.

Some players have 3-4 peak seasons of goal scoring.

Alex had many more.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

This is guy feeling as well and although it's probably not fair to Kuch but Ovi was seen as one of the top players in the league and a real force in his prime, Kuch is seen much more as a guy who scores a lot and that distinction is quite clear in most people's perceptions.

To put it another way going into their respective NHL seasons in a throw everyone in the pool redraft from scratch each season at a time no salary cap restrictions Ovi is going to place higher than Kuch in many more seasons.

Although it will become more of a question if he adds significantly to his playoff resume and regular season prime but for many even that won't be enough.

To a normal hockey fan, Kucherov is seen as the best player after McDavid along with McKinnon and the most successful star of his generation. And overall, the 90s generation is perceived as vastly superior to the 80s generation, which it quickly swept aside.
It reminds me of Manning/Brady or Federer/Djokovic. Once a label is made, many have difficulty updating.

 

[filinski77]

People talk about post 2010 Ovechkin, but also seem to forget that he won the Hart in 2013 and also was the best forward in the league in 2015 (lost the Hart to Price).

Put it this way: post-peak Ovechkin will have as many top-forward Hart finishes as peak Kucherov will (if Kuch wins the Hart this year).

 

[Herregud]

So we don't have the same definition of Superstar. Mine is more restrictive

I don't see a season with Ovechkin as outperformers in the league after 2010. Goals are the argument that made him a Franchise player then an Elite player and currently Top 6. Seasons with 50 goals yes but with a % not crazy shots and only 20 assists in the next column. Kucherov has the talent to put together 50-goal seasons. But he makes his teammates score a lot more.

Kucherov has been better than Ovechkin since 2016. Ovechkin at 31 was weaker than Kucherov at 23. And Kucherov at 31 is significantly stronger than Kucherov at 23.

A guy who outperforms the league is a guy who strings together 100-point seasons without forcing, who dominates in the playoff series. A guy like Matthews, I have a hard time saying he was a Superstar this year. And yet his regular season outclasses all of Ovechkin's seasons after 2010 by a long shot.

Kucherov is the guy who is the most productive after McDavid in the regular season in the 2017-2024 cycle and is the best playoff career player in the last 10 years.

I just think you're being unfairly exclusive of Ovechkin's seasons because he hadn't needed to be the primary set up guy on his team. He's a goal-scoring superstar. That's his identity and it's what he can most contribute toward helping his team win. Why is his best aspect detrimental to superstardom, but Kucherov's a boon to his case? Makes zero sense.

Ovechkin has 8 seasons in the top 10 in points (and points per game) with three of those coming after your arbitrary 2010 cut off. But of course, since he didn't have 50 assists to go along with that, you're more than willing to dismiss them.

When you get into random things like top 10 finishes in goals created and point shares, he's in the teens, beating out Crosby, his true contemporary. Ovechkin and Kucherov are not and never will be in direct generational competition with each other. A superstar then is not a superstar now.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Stop. He is on a road, but wait another 7 seasons and see where he's at.

Some players have 3-4 peak seasons of goal scoring.

Alex had many more.

He has a much higher goal ceiling per season than Ovechkin who has never really exceeded 50 goals and he has already demonstrated in 3 seasons out of the last 4 that he can score 60 to 70 goals. So even with missed seasons of 30 goals, 300 goals by 2030 is within his reach and I don't want to wait until 2030 to be able to say it. I might be dead.
In any case, he seems to have made it an objective and considering its effectiveness, he has ample means to do so. Especially with a 36-team NHL after its prime.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

People talk about post 2010 Ovechkin, but also seem to forget that he won the Hart in 2013 and also was the best forward in the league in 2015 (lost the Hart to Price).

Put it this way: post-peak Ovechkin will have as many top-forward Hart finishes as peak Kucherov will (if Kuch wins the Hart this year).

Because Crosby missed 25% of the regular season. And it wasn't a very strong era. Jamie Benn, top scorer with 87 points for example... I think this season's McDavid/Kucherov/McKinnon would have shattered this mark.

They swept away the 80s generation as soon as they arrived in the league. We found ourselves at a time with a league where the majority of the best players were under 25 years old.

44 goals, 100 assists dude - 160 points in PO.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I just think you're being unfairly exclusive of Ovechkin's seasons because he hadn't needed to be the primary set up guy on his team. He's a goal-scoring superstar. That's his identity and it's what he can most contribute toward helping his team win. Why is his best aspect detrimental to superstardom, but Kucherov's a boon to his case? Makes zero sense.

Ovechkin has 8 seasons in the top 10 in points (and points per game) with three of those coming after your arbitrary 2010 cut off. But of course, since he didn't have 50 assists to go along with that, you're more than willing to dismiss them.

When you get into random things like top 10 finishes in goals created and point shares, he's in the teens, beating out Crosby, his true contemporary. Ovechkin and Kucherov are not and never will be in direct generational competition with each other. A superstar then is not a superstar now.

Only 3 seasons in the top 10 in points after 2010? Clearly this is a statistic that Ovechkin was not a superstar. Kucherov was 2 times top 1 with McDavid, McKinnon, Matthews as competitors.

Ovechkin has never been a playmaker. Kucherov is a playmaker and scorer at the same time. 44 goals and 100 assists, Ovechkin prime would never have been able to do it.

Ovechkin was a superstar between 2005 and 2010, I admitted that. Kucherov has been one since 2017.

One big element always omitted : play-off performances. Kucherov is far above. 2021, for example, a year without playing and he flies over the circuit like Ovechkin has never done.

From Ovechkin we will only remember the 2018 campaign. Kucherov has 6 major campaigns. The best career in the Play-Off. And that's what matters most. And his career is far from over.

Kucherov PPG Ranking (10 games and more) :
2024 : N°1
2023 : N°5
2022 : N°2
2021 : N°3 in PO with 4 series and best mark by far
2020 : N°10
2019 : N°1
2018 : N°4
2017 : N°5
2016 : N°25
2015 : N°41

Ovechkin PPG Ranking (10 games and more) :
2006 : N°5
2007 : N°16
2008 : N°1
2009 : N°1
2010 : N°1
2011 : N°9
2012 : N°41
2013 : N°4
2014 : N°12
2015 : N°8
2016 : N°19
2017 : N°30
2018 : N°15
2019 : N°19
2020 : N°24
2021 : N°29
2022 : N°22
2023 : N°32
2024 : N°83

So only 5 regular seasons in the top 5 for Ovechkin. Kucherov is already 6 with more competition and the best for the more important (Play-Off). Already so many top 10 seasons (7-7).

 

[Demandedace]

People who didn’t see peak ovechkin play are wild