What does Kucherov need to do to surpass Ovechkin and become the greatest Russian player to ever play in the NHL?

[DaPhazz]

Not be a total douche

 

[Absolut]

Not be a total douche

He is actually a great guy. Very kind, especially to kids. That whole team is pretty amazing in terms of personalities. There is a douche on the team but he shall remain nameless. And you'll never guess. Appearances can be very deceiving.

 

[Ultimate Bandwagon]

It's important to note the difference between best and great.
Best would mean in terms of hockey talent and the way the player can affect games. In that regard I think the Kucherov we are seeing now and have been for a few seasons is likely the better hockey player than Ovechkin is or was (It's a tough call though).

However the term great, in my eyes at least, transcends hockey ability. It has a mythical allure to it. Great players become legends and have stories told about them. There's a reason Gretzky is called "The Great One" and not "The Best One". With this definition in mind I think Ovechkin is clearly ahead of Kucherov and many many other players in terms of greatness. And if/when he surpasses the goal scoring record that will absolutely cement his legacy. And this is without saying anything about the absolutely insane trophy case and other accolades he has accumulated over his career.

For Kucherov to surpass that level of legacy will be difficult. Another cup with Conn Smythe worthy performance, in addition to a few more dominant seasons where he grabs some hardware is the minimum.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Matthews is 41% of the way to Gretzky’s goal record after 8 seasons. “On the road” lol okay. Yes just like McDavid is “on the road” to Gretzky’s point record.

He is almost a year ahead of Ovechkin and comes to the usual prime age for a player (27-32). If he plays at his usual level and at the same rate of matches played, he should be at 700 at 33 years old. Maybe more.

Either way, Matthews has the profile to play 20 seasons. So 8 out of 20 is 40%.

 

[bobholly39]

Curious what makes you say that. Kuch is one of the most driven and competitive players in the league, he’s been healthy the last couple of years after struggling with injuries earlier in his career, he just had a historic season at an age at which most players are already declining, and his game is the least reliant on physical attributes that we’ve seen since Gretzky. Unless he accumulates more injuries, decides he doesn’t want to play through a potential Lightning decline, or flat out gets bored, I don’t see why he wouldn’t continue to play at a high level for another decade or so.

No real rational/logical reason. Just a feeling I have, I'm not sure why. I could be completely wrong.

It's always so hard to predict longevity with players.

 

[Sentinel]

5 or 6 more seasons like this one?

If Kucherov adds 6 seasons like this one - I legitimately believe the argument won't be vs Ovechkin, but vs Gretzky, and does Kucherov belong in the big 4 all-time.

It's fine if you want to say Ovechkin is still ahead (he is) and Kucherov needs to add more - but you're waaaay out there in how much more he needs to add.

This is one of the absolute strongest post-lockout seasons by a player. Definitely top 5, possibly top 3. You give him 6 of those he's way ahead of McDavid/Crosby/Ovechkin tier and is pushing on the next tier up.

You're looking in terms of absolute numbers. I was referring to simply getting the Art Ross, a handful of points over the 2nd place. That's not Gretzky's territory.

OK, 2-3 seasons like this one.

 

[bobholly39]

You're looking in terms of absolute numbers. I was referring to simply getting the Art Ross, a handful of points over the 2nd place. That's not Gretzky's territory.

OK, 2-3 seasons like this one.

2-3 seasons is a lot more reasonable, especially with this level of dominance, than 5 or 6.

I still say - give Kucherov 2-3 more seasons like this one, and he's ahead of McDavid. It's a phenomenal season. I think 1 more season like this one for Kucherov and I might slot his peak ahead of Ovechkin already (it's close already).

 

[Neil Racki]

Another thread with recency bias.

In 2024, humans cant fairly compare careers of players when one is 30 in 2024, having his best season ever in a year when scoring has rocketed vs the other who is 38 in 2024

Bias of what weve seen recently, conscious and sub conscious seeps into any analysis

Im in the camp that says "compare careers" when careers are over.

 

[Roric]

If he can string together 3 more seasons like this I think he can pass him. He has already won 2 Art Rosses in the McDavid era (Crosby only won 2 in the McDavidless era.) But I doubt casual fans will ever accept that Kucherov has passed him.

More like casual fans are the only ones that think kucherov will assuredly surpass ovi, let alone within only 3 seasons

 

[Cup or Bust]

I highly doubt Kucherov will ever be in any historical discussions in 10 or 20 seasons from now. Some people might point back to this season once in awhile and say he had an amazing season and won a few Cups but his overall career body of work is not legendary or All-Time great level. Players need to have some kind of unique impact over a long period of time statistically and also be a focal point in the league for many years to be looked upon as an all time great. Before this season I have not seen or heard much discussion about Kucherov since 2019. Ovechkin has been a main focal point of the league for close to 20 years now and he has accumulated legendary goal scoring statistics. Kucherov is only 30 so he might have 3 or 4 more great seasons to gain that type of stature in the league but as of now, people will be talking about Ovechkin in 20 seasons from now and Kucherov will be a distant memory in most people's minds. They will be talking about Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, and even Matthews is making that impact with his level of goal scoring from this era. You don't become an all-time great for one or two noticeable seasons.

 

[DaPhazz]

He is actually a great guy. Very kind, especially to kids. That whole team is pretty amazing in terms of personalities. There is a douche on the team but he shall remain nameless. And you'll never guess. Appearances can be very deceiving.

he was super duper great for the kids at the all-star game

 

[Sentinel]

Not be a total douche

At least Kucherov has not been known to be swinging on You-Know-Who's nutsack like Ovy has.

 

[Sentinel]

I highly doubt Kucherov will ever be in any historical discussions in 10 or 20 seasons from now. Some people might point back to this season once in awhile and say he had an amazing season and won a few Cups but his overall career body of work is not legendary or All-Time great level. Players need to have some kind of unique impact over a long period of time statistically and also be a focal point in the league for many years to be looked upon as an all time great. Before this season I have not seen or heard much discussion about Kucherov since 2019. Ovechkin has been a main focal point of the league for close to 20 years now and he has accumulated legendary goal scoring statistics. Kucherov is only 30 so he might have 3 or 4 more great seasons to gain that type of stature in the league but as of now, people will be talking about Ovechkin in 20 seasons from now and Kucherov will be a distant memory in most people's minds. They will be talking about Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, and even Matthews is making that impact with his level of goal scoring from this era. You don't become an all-time great for one or two noticeable seasons.

Whoa, that's some massive cherry-picking. Could this be because he's been out with injuries since that season? And he is the first player since Lemieux to record two consecutive 30+ point playoffs over that period.

It's ALREADY been two "noticeable" seasons. 100 assists / season is a mega-elite territory, not done since Gretzky's 1990-91.

 

[um]

Whoa, that's some massive cherry-picking. Could this be because he's been out with injuries since that season? And he is the first player since Lemieux to record two consecutive 30+ point playoffs over that period.

It's ALREADY been two "noticeable" seasons. 100 assists / season is a mega-elite territory, not done since Gretzky's 1990-91.

Not to discredit Kucherov's extremley impressive 100 assist season, but it was done like two days prior by McDavid... so your timeline is slightly off.

 

[DaPhazz]

At least Kucherov has not been known to be swinging on You-Know-Who's nutsack like Ovy has.

Good for him, good for him, still a massive douche

 

[Video Nasty]

He’s already the greatest postseason player of his generation (something Ovi didn’t come close to), and he’d already achieved that before joining Gretzky and Lemieux as the only players to score 30 points in back-to-back playoff runs.

Is this one of another one of those situations where you think if you just flat out lie enough that it becomes true?

Kucherov had 61 points in 65 games and no Cups before the back to back 30+ point postseasons.

Kucherov has had a dazzling career based in reality. There’s no need to embellish and outright lie as much as you do.

 

[tfwnogf]

Kuch wins only at being the biggest pouty baby. No 50 goal seasons, how many does Ovechkin have again? 9? Yeah. Not close. Peak Ovi would score 80+ in today's NHL.

Not only is Ovechkin the superior player, his personality and love for the game is unmatched. Captain for 10+ years, can't imagine Kucherov as captain. Ovechkin is the quintessential Russian player.

 

[crowfish]

More like casual fans are the only ones that think kucherov will assuredly surpass ovi, let alone within only 3 seasons

Do you know how good Kucherov's career will look if he does what he did this year for the next three seasons? That will be 4 seasons better than Ovechkins' best season.

 

[KingJoffrey]

Fedorov won both Hart and Selke in same season. While he was 2nd in points behind Wayne.

Kuch and Ovie can't match that.

 

[crowfish]

The "McDavidless era" oh you mean the Crosby era, or Crosby/Ovi era if you want to give it to both.

What a hilarious way to try to discredit Crosbys AR as if he didn't have a generational player in the league. HE was the generational player.

May as well sayCrosby, Kuch and McDavid all have won them in the "Gretzkyless" era then

I don't think you understand the point. McDavid is one of the greatest scorers of all-time, he already has won 5 Art Rosses. Kucherov in the same era has now beaten him out of 2 of them. Crosby did not have to compete against one of the greatest scorers of allitme and only won 2 of them in his career. People rank Crosby as a top 7 all-time player, and yet Kucherov has the same amount of scoring titles despite way tougher competition.

 

[kcmaop]

Kucherov is no doubt a great player, but there's no way he'll ever be considered the player that Ovechkin is/was. Ovi is one of the top twelve forwards ever in anyone's serious all-time team. Along with his production is his sheer charisma and the way he and Crosby carried the NHL for decades.

 

[Randyne]

I don't think you understand the point. McDavid is one of the greatest scorers of all-time, he already has won 5 Art Rosses. Kucherov in the same era has now beaten him out of 2 of them. Crosby did not have to compete against one of the greatest scorers of allitme and only won 2 of them in his career. People rank Crosby as a top 7 all-time player, and yet Kucherov has the same amount of scoring titles despite way tougher competition.

McDavid has Draisaitl with Hart/Ross/Lindsay he factored in up to 50% of McD's points
Sid has Malkin with Hart/2Rosses/Lindsay/Calder/Smythe he factored in up to 50% of Sid's points
Kucherov has Point/Stamkos/Hedman with many trophies they factored in up to 80% of Kucherov's points
Ovechkin has no one with any trophy. And outpaced SidMalkin monster duo 3 times in a row.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Ovechkin is still going.

 

[EmptyNetAssassin]

Define the best. Fedorov, Kuch are better all around players. But Ovechkin is Ovechkin. He is a legend, a bigger than life personality that along with Crosby defined the sport for 20 years. Kucherov, for all his achievements, will never be that.

Fair point. Ovie was a great entertainer and the face of the nhl. Kucherov leaves it all on the ice and the nhl doesn't want to market him as the face of.the nhl.

 

[AndreRoy]

he was super duper great for the kids at the all-star game

What did you expect him to do? He always looks bored and like he’s hardly trying - that’s just his personality on the ice, whether it’s a meaningless skills competition or the Stanley Cup Finals. And his game doesn’t translate well to competitions of that nature. If the league wanted personality and flashy skating/stickhandling then they went to the wrong person; it’s not fair to Kucherov to expect him to be somebody he’s not and then to treat him as though he went out there to ruin a bunch of kids’ days.