What does Kucherov need to do to surpass Ovechkin and become the greatest Russian player to ever play in the NHL?

[HFpapi]

I'm team Ovi here but people saying "4 or 5 more seasons like this one" are out to lunch.

4-5 more seasons of 140+ points and he's alone with Gretzky and Lemieux as the greatest offensive players ever.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

If he can string together 3 more seasons like this I think he can pass him. He has already won 2 Art Rosses in the McDavid era (Crosby only won 2 in the McDavidless era.) But I doubt casual fans will ever accept that Kucherov has passed him.

The "McDavidless era" oh you mean the Crosby era, or Crosby/Ovi era if you want to give it to both.

What a hilarious way to try to discredit Crosbys AR as if he didn't have a generational player in the league. HE was the generational player.

May as well sayCrosby, Kuch and McDavid all have won them in the "Gretzkyless" era then

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Kucherov waited too long to become elite unfortunately. Ovechkin got there a lot earlier so he's got the longevity plus for those who value goals more, the peak.

Kucherov has been elite since his first full season, at age 21. This is his 10th season as an elite talent with a superstar level for 7 years.

Ovechkin was only 1 year younger when he started in the NHL. He only kept his superstar level for 5 years.

 

[Herregud]

Kucherov has been elite since his first full season, at age 21. This is his 10th season as an elite talent with a superstar level for 7 years.

Ovechkin was only 1 year younger when he started in the NHL. He only kept his superstar level for 5 years.

I'm legitimately curious as to what your definition of a superstar is because this is wrong. It's okay to call Kucherov incredible without flat out lying about Ovechkin.

 

[syz]

Honestly if Ovechkin breaks Gretzky's record there's basically nothing Kucherov could do. "Did something better than Wayne Gretzky" is a conversation ender in hockey.

 

[garmonbozia]

The place for Kucherov to separate from Ovechkin is the postseason. Make a career of deep runs and cup wins that inarguably separates him from his peers.

 

[KingJoffrey]

Prime Fedorov was better than either of them. Think of Kucherov and Bergeron combine. He was that good.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

He can't

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I'm legitimately curious as to what your definition of a superstar is because this is wrong. It's okay to call Kucherov incredible without flat out lying about Ovechkin.

Player who comes out of regular seasons with 1.25PPG or more and is the #1 star of a dynasty that went to the Conference Finals 6 times. If he is not a Superstar with a season of 144 points in a very average team this season and being the 3rd active player in play-off points behind two legends who are 6 and 7 years older than him, I don't know not who is.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Honestly if Ovechkin breaks Gretzky's record there's basically nothing Kucherov could do. "Did something better than Wayne Gretzky" is a conversation ender in hockey.

Auston Matthews is on road to beat Gretzky's and Ovechkin's mark and yet he is weaker than McDavid and McKinnon, players whom Kucherov rivals.

 

[CatOTails]

Ehem, nothing? OV has record number of 30-goal seasons, art ross, smythe, 3x harts, 3x Lindsay's, 9 rockets. If he breaks Gretzky's goal scoring record that would cement his legacy as greatest goalscorer of all time.
I doubt Kuck will have another season like this one. Even if he does it won't be enough.

 

[wgknestrick]

Where is Kuch vs Malkin...rather OV? I think that is the more likely comparison once the careers are over. He'll (Kuch) probably finish ahead of him, but I think they are the better comparison for 2nd-3rd best Russian. At the end though, who the F cares? They were all fantastic players.

 

[bobholly39]

He's still far from Ovechkin for now - but if he keeps adding "peak-worthy" stuff to his resume, he'll continue to close the gap exponentially.

Nobody saw this season coming from him. who says he doesn't have another similar season up his sleeve next year? Or two? Do that and the argument with Ovechkin is starting to get very solid.

Playoffs. Only 3 players in history with back to back 30 points playoff run - Gretzky, Lemieux...and Kucherov. Does he have more left in the playoffs? Maybe a smythe/cup this year? That also adds, exponentially.

Ovechkin has had a fantastic career and legendary longevity/consistency. Kucherov will definitely need some consistency/longevity too - but that's too early to tell as he's still young. For whatever reason - I actually don't see that from Kucherov, I see him retirning early, maybe 36 or so, but I could be completely wrong.

 

[EmptyNetAssassin]

Kucherov wins vs Matthews.

You win

 

[bobholly39]

5 or 6 seasons like this one. Goals > Assists. 3 Harts and 5 nominations to 1 (potentially 2) and 2.

Those who say Kucherov is a more impactful player don't remember Ovy in his prime. He was a force of nature, scoring at will.

5 or 6 more seasons like this one?

If Kucherov adds 6 seasons like this one - I legitimately believe the argument won't be vs Ovechkin, but vs Gretzky, and does Kucherov belong in the big 4 all-time.

It's fine if you want to say Ovechkin is still ahead (he is) and Kucherov needs to add more - but you're waaaay out there in how much more he needs to add.

This is one of the absolute strongest post-lockout seasons by a player. Definitely top 5, possibly top 3. You give him 6 of those he's way ahead of McDavid/Crosby/Ovechkin tier and is pushing on the next tier up.

 

[EmptyNetAssassin]

Kucherov is a totally different type of player. Ovi is a sniper and a showman. He was fun tk watch. Kucherov is a playmaker, sniper, and makes highlight reel plays look easy. Kucherov has the highest hockey iq by a winger ever and possibly in the nhl now. He just is so good at making crazy plays look easy and find a way to get the puck to his teammates and score. Ovi was more physical. Kucherov already has a a better post season career. Let's just appreciate both top 10 players of all time and one of the best 1 or 2 Russians to dominate the nhl.

 

[gtrower]

Auston Matthews is on road to beat Gretzky's and Ovechkin's mark and yet he is weaker than McDavid and McKinnon, players whom Kucherov rivals.

Matthews is 41% of the way to Gretzky’s goal record after 8 seasons. “On the road” lol okay. Yes just like McDavid is “on the road” to Gretzky’s point record.

 

[Danarqhy]

Kucherov is already the better player, and much better playoff performer. Ovie fangirls are blinded by goals but Kucherov just helps his team WIN.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

The place for Kucherov to separate from Ovechkin is the postseason. Make a career of deep runs and cup wins that inarguably separates him from his peers.

So if Ovechkin ends at 894, Kucherov is the better player because Ovechkin did not beat the record?

I do not think the record "matters" in this discussion. Ovechkin is already the greatest goal scorer of all time.

If you think that Kucherov can surpass him, you should already think it. 40 more career goals in a top-10 career of all time should not change that.

Kucherov is already ahead of Ovechkin in the playoffs, by a good margin.

Regular season? They have the same number of Art Rosses, but Ovechkin blows him out of the water in Rockets. Unless Kucherov adds 2 or more Rosses, I do not think he can pass Ovechkin.

 

[AndreRoy]

Don't forget also that Ovie lost like a season and a half to work stoppages, I think before Kucherov entered the league. Ovie's amazing durability has allowed him to reach these levels despite losing those games/years, but who knows what else he'd have achieved with another 120 games in his prime years?

Kucherov lost a season and a half to injuries, plus another half a season due to the COVID panic.

The place for Kucherov to separate from Ovechkin is the postseason. Make a career of deep runs and cup wins that inarguably separates him from his peers.

He’s already the greatest postseason player of his generation (something Ovi didn’t come close to), and he’d already achieved that before joining Gretzky and Lemieux as the only players to score 30 points in back-to-back playoff runs.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Hard not to choose Kucherov over Ovy if you want cups. Kucherov is quite a bit better in the playoffs...okay Im wrong.....he's a lot better. He's also the more well rounded player.

 

[AndreRoy]

Kucherov will definitely need some consistency/longevity too - but that's too early to tell as he's still young. For whatever reason - I actually don't see that from Kucherov, I see him retirning early, maybe 36 or so, but I could be completely wrong.

Curious what makes you say that. Kuch is one of the most driven and competitive players in the league, he’s been healthy the last couple of years after struggling with injuries earlier in his career, he just had a historic season at an age at which most players are already declining, and his game is the least reliant on physical attributes that we’ve seen since Gretzky. Unless he accumulates more injuries, decides he doesn’t want to play through a potential Lightning decline, or flat out gets bored, I don’t see why he wouldn’t continue to play at a high level for another decade or so.

 

[Absolut]

Define the best. Fedorov, Kuch are better all around players. But Ovechkin is Ovechkin. He is a legend, a bigger than life personality that along with Crosby defined the sport for 20 years. Kucherov, for all his achievements, will never be that.

 

[AndreRoy]

Define the best. Fedorov, Kuch are better all around players. But Ovechkin is Ovechkin. He is a legend, a bigger than life personality that along with Crosby defined the sport for 20 years. Kucherov, for all his achievements, will never be that.

That has more to do with Kuch’s personality and his playing in Tampa than anything else. Make him charismatic and put him on a non-Southern team and he would rightfully be considered a generation-defining player alongside McDavid, just as Ovi was with Crosby.

Kuch was the best player on the most dominant team of the cap era, as well as the best postseason performer of his generation and one of the greatest of all time. If people don’t consider that “defining the sport” then that has more to do with their biases than it does with him.

 

[filinski77]

Regular Season:
Not really that close at all. Ovechkin has twice the points and almost 3x the goals (despite lower scoring league on avg). Kucherov has the extra Ross, but Ovechkin has 3x point/gp leads vs 2. for Kucherov. Over twice the number of top-10 hart finishes, and then add on the best goal scorer of all-time.

People that didn't watch hockey at Ovi's peak will see the crazy high point totals from the last few years with Kuch, but it's all relative to their peers. Kuch isn't better than Crosby or Gordie Howe's peak lol.

Kucherov will be 31 years-old in 2 months, it's definitely possible that he has another Ross/Pearson/Hart in him at 31, but even past that, Ovechkin still has a huge lead on pretty much everything else that will be extremely hard for a 32 year-old onwards to match.

	Ovi	Kuch
Points	1550​	873​
Goals	853​	320​
Top-10 point finishes	8​	6​
Top-10 goal finishes	15​	4​
Art Ross	1​	2​
Rocket	9​	0​
Top-1 point/gp	3​	2​
Hart	3​	1 (2?)
Pearson	3​	1 (2?)
Top-10 Hart	10​	4​

Playoffs:
Kucherov has been absolutely excellent in the playoffs, no doubt. But he's also had a significantly better team as far as forward group, defensive group, and one of the best playoff goalies of all-time on his team. Playoff point scoring is also up a ton in the last 4-5 years than it was in Ovi's peak.

I'd honestly say too that Ovechkin in 2009 is a better player in the playoffs than anything Kucherov has done. Not Ovi's fault his team only made it 2 rounds.

I'm fine with saying Kucherov has been the better playoff player, but it's not "miles" better like some are making it out to be.

No player in NHL history has lead their team in goals in the playoffs more than Ovechkin has. And only Gretzky and Howe have lead their team in points more in the playoffs than Ovechkin has. Ovechkin is definitely underrated in the playoffs.

Kuch: Playoffs relative to team

	goals	Points
2023​	6th	1st
2022​	3rd	1st
2021​	2nd	1st
2020​	4th	1st
2019​	9th	2nd
2018​	1st	1st
2016​	1st	1st
2015​	2nd	2nd
2014​	3rd	9th

Ovi: Playoffs relative to team

	goals	Points
2022​	4th	2nd
2021​	1st	1st
2020​	1st	1st
2019​	2nd	1st
2018​	1st	2nd
2017​	2nd	5th
2016​	2nd	1st
2015​	1st	1st
2013​	2nd	6th
2012​	1st	1st
2011​	1st	1st
2010​	1st	1st
2009​	1st	1st
2008​	1st	1st