What does Kucherov need to do to surpass Ovechkin and become the greatest Russian player to ever play in the NHL?

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Only one playoff campaign? I just looked it up: he has scored 72 playoff goals. If he only had one campaign, and scored 72 goals, no wonder he won the Conn Smythe! You know who hasn’t scored 72 goals in one playoff campaign? Braden Holtby.

In 20 years, 1388 shoots attempted, only 72 goals and +5.

Kucherov, 8 years younger, already more 20 points and 5 Conf Finals.

I find it hard to imagine that the Tampa dynasty will be forgotten and that Kucherov will not be remembered as the best player on this team.

 

[Planetov]

And when Matthews, a player worse than Kucherov, breaks the record with 25% fewer shots, the legend of the greatest player of all time will disappear. There will be nothing left to defend.

What, uh… what does this mean?

I find it hard to imagine that the Tampa dynasty will be forgotten and that Kucherov will not be remembered as the best player on this team.

Who is claiming this to be untrue?

 

[Czechboy]

I didn't realize Ovi was the greatest Russian to ever play? Is that uncontested fact? Feel like Russia has had some absolute studs that would be in the conversation?

Maybe he is. Has a 300 goal lead and is close in assists. GP by a mile. I was thinking Datsyuk, Malkin and Fedorov would be in that NHL chat too!

Oh, and to answer the question.lol

He'll need about 3 more very good seasons... about 240 more GP and about 240 more points and then the conversation begins IMO.

I am also only talking NHL Russians that had careers here.. lot of greats never played here OR came here when they were senior citizens.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I didn't realize Ovi was the greatest Russian to ever play? Is that uncontested fact? Feel like Russia has had some absolute studs that would be in the conversation?

View attachment 856093

Maybe he is. Has a 300 goal lead and is close in assists. GP by a mile. I was thinking Datsyuk, Malkin and Fedorov would be in that NHL chat too!

With the Play-Off statistics it's more telling. Malkin, Datsyuk and Fedorov have a lot of arguments.

Plus the most sought-after profile: defensive center who produces offensively

 

[HolyHagelin]

I didn't realize Ovi was the greatest Russian to ever play? Is that uncontested fact? Feel like Russia has had some absolute studs that would be in the conversation?

View attachment 856093

Maybe he is. Has a 300 goal lead and is close in assists. GP by a mile. I was thinking Datsyuk, Malkin and Fedorov would be in that NHL chat too!

Look at hits too. Also read my post on the last page - OV has an entire HOF playing career’s worth of goals more than Kuch. Kuch might legitimately have an argument next, but the guy with a Marian Hossa sized lead in goals over him definitely takes it.

…and Ovechkin has a Nikita Kucherov’s worth of goals lead over malkin.

 

[HolyHagelin]

Depending on your rating, I may offer you a game on chess.com. I only have 9 months of play, you have your chances.

Honest answer, I don’t have a rating, i havent played a match in years and online in longer. I was better than terrible, but worse than good.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Look at hits too. Also read my post on the last page - OV has an entire HOF playing career’s worth of goals more than Kuch. Kuch might legitimately have an argument next, but the guy with a Marian Hossa sized lead in goals over him definitely takes it.

…and Ovechkin has a Nikita Kucherov’s worth of goals lead over malkin.

Kucherov scores far fewer goals than Matthews and yet he is better. And Matthews is a better scorer than Ovechkin.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Some people in this thread would be in for a rude surprise if we factored in Russian players who spent all or the majority of their careers outside the NHL. Kucherov would be even further down the list of all-time greats.

I also see some bad takes claiming Kuch was a superstar or great player from the very beginning of his career.

draft +1 season - not in the NHL
draft + 2 season - not in the NHL
draft + 3 season - 18 points in 52 games
draft + 4 season - 65 points in 82 games ranking 27th in the NHL
draft + 5 season - 66 points in 77 games ranking 21st in the NHL tied with a 43 year old Jaromir Jagr
draft + 6 season - 85 points in 74 games ranking 5th in the NHL

So it took until Kuch's 6th season after he was drafted to become a great player

Ovechkin was a superstar in this draft +2 season, only missing his draft plus 1 season due to the lockout.

Malkin was a great player in his first nhl season (draft + 3 season) finishing with 85 points in 78 games finishing 18th overall and a superstar in his draft + 3 season finishing 2nd in points.

 

[Planetov]

Plus the most sought-after profile: defensive center who produces offensively

Now it’s becoming clearer. You prefer a defensive center with offensive upside. That’s all you had to say. You dislike scoring wingers, or at the very least you value them less than another play style.

You claim to know hockey. So you understand that there is a great variety in play styles. You have defensive defensemen, scoring wingers, defensive centers, offensive defensemen, defensive wingers, scoring centers, and all sorts of combinations in-between.

So is it Ovechkin you don’t like, or scoring wingers? Because all of it is important. And it all makes for a balanced team. And even if you value one play style above another, just remember that you don’t have to tear down a player or play style just because you place higher value somewhere else. This is not a zero-sum game.

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Why is this discussion purely about the forwards?
There are notable players at defence and in goal, too

 

[AndreRoy]

Been a while since i popped in this thread, so i just want to point out:

Ovechkin has an entire hall of fame career’s worth of goals scored MORE THAN Kucherov.

That phrasing sucks let me clarify.

The goals scored difference between the two - 540 or so - is enough for a hall of fame career.

When one guy has an entire HOF career lead on the other, it isnt a real conversation.

He also has a career’s worth of games played more than Kucherov which negates your point entirely. I’m going to be kind and assume you merely overlooked that fact as opposed to being intentionally disingenuous.

 

[AndreRoy]

Make no mistake about it, history will absolutely record that Kucherov is missing a Conn Smythe.

And yet history also records that he is the only player besides Wayne and Mario with 30+ points in back-to-back postseasons. Something playoff-choker Ovi never came close to accomplishing.

Anybody with half a brain knows that Kucherov could easily have two Conn Smythes right now and not a single knowledgeable hockey fan would argue they weren’t deserved.

 

[Planetov]

And yet history also records that he is the only player besides Wayne and Mario with 30+ points in back-to-back postseasons. Something playoff-choker Ovi never came close to accomplishing.

Anybody with half a brain knows that Kucherov could easily have two Conn Smythes right now and not a single knowledgeable hockey fan would argue they weren’t deserved.

I was responding to what @Dirtyf1ghter was saying, which was tongue-in-cheek. No need for the aggression. What Kucherov has accomplished is nothing short of amazing. Jeez bro.

 

[Demandedace]

Kucherov scores far fewer goals than Matthews and yet he is better. And Matthews is a better scorer than Ovechkin.

Why are you so incredibly hung up on that fact that Matthews is a better goal scorer right now as a player in his prime than old man ovechkin finishing his career lol

 

[HolyHagelin]

He also has a career’s worth of games played more than Kucherov which negates your point entirely. I’m going to be kind and assume you merely overlooked that fact as opposed to being intentionally disingenuous.

Gotta play the games to be the greatest. Nothing there is a knock on Kuch, and it absolutely does not negate my point. Sure, OV has about double the games played - a long career is a prerequisite of being the greatest of anything. Kucherov is amazing, truly a generational player. He doesn’t even have 900 points in his career, and Ovechkin is threatening 900 goals. The conversation equating the 2 in any fashion is absurdly premature.

 

[HolyHagelin]

I was responding to what @Dirtyf1ghter was saying, which was tongue-in-cheek. No need for the aggression. What Kucherov has accomplished is nothing short of amazing. Jeez bro.

It really is true that the kucherov fanboys are hyper sensitive, i had no idea this was a thing 8 months ago.

 

[Planetov]

It really is true that the kucherov fanboys are hyper sensitive, i had no idea this was a thing 8 months ago.

Eh, I try to ignore fanboyism. But as an Ovie fanboy, I understand it. As you said earlier, I shouldn’t feed the trolls. Oh well.

 

[Nsjohnson]

Yeah seasons less than 90 points while being in negative presence for 14 years.

Kucherov has seasons with more assists than Ovechkin had points in those years

Win the Rocket by shooting as much as Ovechkin, he can do it.

Again, most of us see the blatant extent of folly in your argument.

 

[Fantomas]

I love the "all you need to do is shoot the puck on the net 400 times a season and you'll be Ovechkin" argument. Glad to see someone dusted it off for this occasion.

 

[Nsjohnson]

History will remember that in 20 years, Ovechkin only managed one play-off campaign and that alongside his 900 goals in 13,000 attempts, he struggled to finish his career as a positive presence on the ice.

And when Matthews, a player worse than Kucherov, breaks the record with 25% fewer shots, the legend of the greatest player of all time will disappear. There will be nothing left to defend.

Ah you finally outed yourself. Give it up man.

You HATE AO.

 

[algernon]

Why is this discussion purely about the forwards?
There are notable players at defence and in goal, too

Such as?

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Such as?

Fetisov, Vasilevsky, Bobrovsky, Malkin, Zubov

 

[Lou Sassole]

A trophy obtained by its name more than by the level of play. Kuznetsov deserved it more than him. Carlson and Holtby too. Anyway,

I don't think Kucherov would trade the Stanley Cup that Ovechkin is missing for that... He was really very close to deserving it in 2020 and 2021

The physical play of the Caps that playoffs is overlooked way too much. Ovie and Wilson led the way(Beagle, DSP, Oshie, Orpik, Orlov, etc... contributed). Up until the last couple years, Ovie was a player who absolutely intimidated opponents with his physical play. Down 3 to 2 to Tampa, they bullied their way through them in games 6 and 7. This idea that he was gifted the award is horseshit. Hell, Lars Eller may deserve it as much as Kuzy, his OT goal against Columbus saved the entire playoff and he filled in for Backstrom and was great. Also scored the Cup clinching goal.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Question is backwards.

Let's rephrase. It's: How many drunken, IDGAF all star appearances does Ovi need to be considered on Kucherov's level?

 

[Demandedace]

I love the "all you need to do is shoot the puck on the net 400 times a season and you'll be Ovechkin" argument. Glad to see someone dusted it off for this occasion.

Bro, it's simply because Ovi is the only guy stupid enough to enter the season "deciding to get the Rocket". It's not even a prestigious trophy anyway!