What does Kucherov need to do to surpass Ovechkin and become the greatest Russian player to ever play in the NHL?

[HolyHagelin]

Been a while since i popped in this thread, so i just want to point out:

Ovechkin has an entire hall of fame career’s worth of goals scored MORE THAN Kucherov.

That phrasing sucks let me clarify.

The goals scored difference between the two - 540 or so - is enough for a hall of fame career.

When one guy has an entire HOF career lead on the other, it isnt a real conversation.

Also, people still engage with dirtyf1ghter? It took me like 5 posts to realize that is either a bot designed to drive hategagement or an absolute jackass of a troll. Don’t feed the troll.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t think Kucherov will ever get there but I think he’s a at least a comparable offensive player. In some ways I think he’s better, but I know it’s a useless argument. I actually think Kovalchuk was a better shooter than Ovy. Ovy has consistency and longevity, though he does have the support of a team that keeps this train going through thick and thin for the sole purpose of him getting the record.

 

[Lou Sassole]

Yes I know the legend but I have strong doubts. His injury dates back to 1987 and he faced Robinson a second time in 1988. He was doing very well when he was in ACB. He was just a very good pivot comparable to Mutombo ine was a gigantic, more athletic, Larry Bird.

Yes I know the legend but I have strong doubts. His injury dates back to 1987 and he faced Robinson a second time in 1988. He was doing very well when he was in ACB. He was just a very good pivot comparable to Mutombo in a different register.

I think I will take Bill Walton's opinion on Sabonis, over yours:
Bill Walton after seeing a prime Arvydas play: "He probably had a quadruple-double at halftime, and his coach, Alexander Gomelsky, didn't even start him in the second half," Walton told Grantland.com. "You might as well just rewrite the rules of basketball after watching him play in the first half. He could do everything. He had the skills of Larry Bird and Pete Maravich. He had the athleticism of Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar], and he could shoot the 3-point shot. He could pass, run the floor, dribble. We should have carried out a plan in the early 1980s to kidnap him and bring him back right then."
Really sounds like "just a very good pivot". Lol.

 

[HolyHagelin]

I think I will take Bill Walton's opinion on Sabonis, over yours:
Bill Walton after seeing a prime Arvydas play: "He probably had a quadruple-double at halftime, and his coach, Alexander Gomelsky, didn't even start him in the second half," Walton told Grantland.com. "You might as well just rewrite the rules of basketball after watching him play in the first half. He could do everything. He had the skills of Larry Bird and Pete Maravich. He had the athleticism of Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar], and he could shoot the 3-point shot. He could pass, run the floor, dribble. We should have carried out a plan in the early 1980s to kidnap him and bring him back right then."
Really sounds like "just a very good pivot". Lol.

Just going off memory- and for reference i spent time as a newspaper’s sports editor and wrote about my teams and others for some well known online pubs for a while, so i was very engaged with sports for most of my life - everyone talked about arvydas like he was a revelation. The legend was astounding.

The diminished version we eventually got in the nba was still a damn good player.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

You can't be much more wrong and this leads me to believe you did not watch Ovechkin for the first half of his career. I read about 20 of your other replies through this thread and you basis for many of your arguments are flawed.

Ovechkin at his peak is a single entity unlike anything hockey has ever seen.

Kucherov may go down as the second best Russian to play the game.

Second.

Just be happy this is the case.

Oh and just an FYI, Ovechkin can hang with the best of 'em passing.

As already said, I am from the same generation as Ovechkin. I remember him very well at the start of his career. The most individualistic player I have ever seen. It was even an expression whenever a player on my team played too personal. His selfishness was much talked about at the time. He only played for himself. Personally, I found it awful for the teammates. Kucherov is the exact opposite. He has almost everything right in his game: speed, IQ, creation, dribbling. His season at 144 points, Ovechkin has never had the talent to come close. And the excuse of increasing the number of goals doesn't even work. Correlated with the number of goals per match in the season, his mark only increases up to 125 and in what context: gun, gun, gun and gun. He shattered the number of shots attempted in a season and it really wasn't pretty. A team is stronger when it is collective. There it looked like Kojiro Hyuga's Meiwa FC.

I wondered if Ovechkin was going to play like that his whole career. He calmed down after 2010 and his number of points became more consistent with his level of play. Crosby also became more collective. The players have matured. There, we cannot blame Kucherov for having made 144 points by forcing.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I think I will take Bill Walton's opinion on Sabonis, over yours:
Bill Walton after seeing a prime Arvydas play: "He probably had a quadruple-double at halftime, and his coach, Alexander Gomelsky, didn't even start him in the second half," Walton told Grantland.com. "You might as well just rewrite the rules of basketball after watching him play in the first half. He could do everything. He had the skills of Larry Bird and Pete Maravich. He had the athleticism of Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar], and he could shoot the 3-point shot. He could pass, run the floor, dribble. We should have carried out a plan in the early 1980s to kidnap him and bring him back right then."
Really sounds like "just a very good pivot". Lol.

I've read plenty of rants with exaggerated comparisons.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

This is a strawman.

Buddy, the overwhelming majority of teams haven’t been dynasties.

You can’t just make this claim to spin your narrative and have it be true. This is once again you diminishing the accomplishments a player you don’t like.

Your claim is that players don’t win trophies because they don’t care? Please tell me you see what a bonkers take this is.

This is just satire at this point. You don’t have to make a hero vs villain screenplay to make your point.

Ask yourself the question, which players make the Rocket Trophy an objective at the start of the season...

I take Kucherov's career masterpiece any day. 44 goals, 100 assists dude - best scoring in Play-Off among all players from his generation... maybe since Gretzky's gang at the end of his career. That's something other than 900 goals with 13000 shoots attempted.

All franchise players could have done something like this in career. Matthews is doing it by shooting 25% less.

 

[Bouboumaster]

1- Have at least as much points as Ovi at the end of his career
2- Have a couple more tophies, especially the Conn Smythe

 

[Planetov]

Ask yourself the question, which players make the Rocket Trophy an objective at the start of the season...

Ask yourself the question: on what are you basing the argument “make the Rocket Trophy an objective at the start of the season”? A tweet, an interview, a book, or an obvious wild guess?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

1- Have at least as much points as Ovi at the end of his career
2- Have a couple more tophies, especially the Conn Smythe

A trophy obtained by its name more than by the level of play. Kuznetsov deserved it more than him. Carlson and Holtby too. Anyway,

I don't think Kucherov would trade the Stanley Cup that Ovechkin is missing for that... He was really very close to deserving it in 2020 and 2021

 

[mriswith]

From age 28-35 Ovi had 7 out of 8 rockets.

If Kucherov wins the next 6 art rosses in a row we can discuss whether he's come close to matching Ovi.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Ask yourself the question: on what are you basing the argument “make the Rocket Trophy an objective at the start of the season”? A tweet, an interview, a book, or an obvious wild guess?

An evidence. Who other than Ovechkin oriented his game to score as many goals as possible in the regular season?

Winning Rockets trophies with 12-13% seasons with only 20-30 assists must be the guy's focus.

Even Matthews, very shooting oriented, has had seasons of 18% and 40 assists when he wins them.

 

[Planetov]

A trophy obtained by its name more than by the level of play. Kuznetsov deserved it more than him. Carlson and Holtby too. Anyway,

I don't think Kucherov would trade the Stanley Cup that Ovechkin is missing for that... He was really very close to deserving it in 2020 and 2021

So wait, one guy actually wins the Conn Smythe, but doesn’t deserve it, so it is downplayed. But the other guy was “really close to deserving it” twice, so it’s counted as a positive? Pick a lane.

An evidence. Who other than Ovechkin oriented his game to score as many goals as possible in the regular season?

Winning Rockets trophies with 12-13% seasons with only 20-30 assists must be the guy's focus.

Even Matthews, very shooting oriented, has had seasons of 18% and 40 assists when he wins them.

This is not evidence. Try again.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

From age 28-35 Ovi had 7 out of 8 rockets.

If Kucherov wins the next 6 art rosses in a row we can discuss whether he's come close to matching Ovi.

Yeah seasons less than 90 points while being in negative presence for 14 years.

Kucherov has seasons with more assists than Ovechkin had points in those years

Win the Rocket by shooting as much as Ovechkin, he can do it.

 

[LokiDog]

I mean, break the all time goal scoring record and finish top 10 all time in points?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

So wait, one guy actually wins the Conn Smythe, but doesn’t deserve it, so it is downplayed. But the other guy was “really close to deserving it” twice, so it’s counted as a positive? Pick a lane.


This is not evidence. Try again.

You're in denial even after a season of Matthews with 69 goals and a season of Kucherov with 144 points or statistics on Ovechkin's ranking in shooting efficiency so well...

No season with more than 90 points in 14 years with negative presence. The argument of the career peak which vanished with the sick seasons of Kucherov who takes 2 Hart from McDavid prime and probably the best run (in career) in the Play-Off since Gretzky.

 

[HolyHagelin]

I think i figured it out. @Dirtyf1ghter is secretly a *huge* Ovechkin fan, a stan even, and his bit here is to make everyone argue themselves into OV actually being the GOAT by having us all constantly dismantle his (d1rty’s) weaksauce arguments.

17D virtual chess, my man, very clever.

 

[Planetov]

You're in denial even after a season of Matthews with 69 goals and a season of Kucherov with 144 points or statistics on Ovechkin's ranking in shooting efficiency so well...

No season with more than 90 points in 14 years with negative presence. The argument of the career peak which vanished with the sick seasons of Kucherov who takes 2 Hart from McDavid prime and probably the best run (in career) in the Play-Off since Gretzky.

What does any of what you just said have to do with the Conn Smythe, or your claim about Ovechkin’s focus on the Rocket Richard trophy?? You are rambling.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I mean, break the all time goal scoring record and finish top 10 all time in points?

I mean, finishing 1st in Play-Off Points in career behind Gretzky's gang.

I think i figured it out. @Dirtyf1ghter is secretly a *huge* Ovechkin fan, a stan even, and his bit here is to make everyone argue themselves into OV actually being the GOAT by having us all constantly dismantle his (d1rty’s) weaksauce arguments.

17D virtual chess, my man, very clever.

How many elo boy ?

 

[HolyHagelin]

How many elo boy ?

I am obviously not in your league, Kasparov. I bow to the master.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

What does any of what you just said have to do with the Conn Smythe, or your claim about Ovechkin’s focus on the Rocket Richard trophy?? You are rambling.

No connection. We all know that Ovechkin won the Smythe because of his name more than his game and his stats. He wasn't the best player and this trophy is just an anecdote. History will not record that Kucherov is missing a Smythe given his brilliant performances in the Play-Off.

I am obviously not in your league, Kasparov. I bow to the master.

Depending on your rating, I may offer you a game on chess.com. I only have 9 months of play, you have your chances.

 

[Demandedace]

I thought Moronapov and Wetcoast were the biggest and most absurd Ovi haters on this site, but this d1rtyfighter guy may be giving them a run for their money.

In keeping with the theme of this thread, what does d1rtyfighter need to do to surpass Wetcoast as the most ridiculous Ovi hater?

 

[Planetov]

No connection.

I thought not.

We all know that Ovechkin won the Smythe because of his name more than his game and his stats.

No we don’t.

He wasn't the best player and this trophy is just an anecdote.

No it’s not.

History will not record that Kucherov is missing a Smythe given his brilliant performances in the Play-Off.

Make no mistake about it, history will absolutely record that Kucherov is missing a Conn Smythe.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I thought not.

No we don’t.

No it’s not.

Make no mistake about it, history will absolutely record that Kucherov is missing a Conn Smythe.

History will remember that in 20 years, Ovechkin only managed one play-off campaign and that alongside his 900 goals in 13,000 attempts, he struggled to finish his career as a positive presence on the ice.

And when Matthews, a player worse than Kucherov, breaks the record with 25% fewer shots, the legend of the greatest player of all time will disappear. There will be nothing left to defend.

 

[Planetov]

History will remember that in 20 years, Ovechkin only managed one play-off campaign and that alongside his 900 goals in 13,000 attempts, he struggled to finish his career as a positive presence on the ice.

Only one playoff campaign? I just looked it up: he has scored 72 playoff goals. If he only had one campaign, and scored 72 goals, no wonder he won the Conn Smythe! You know who hasn’t scored 72 goals in one playoff campaign? Braden Holtby.