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What does Kucherov need to do to surpass Ovechkin and become the greatest Russian player to ever play in the NHL?

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VistamarCroissants said:
Not in their generation. Their prime was in the 20s
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Yeah so I imagine Fetisov could have put 50 to 60 points. But it was far from the best. It's a very long way from Paul Coffey. Even being open-minded, I can accept Fetisov as a player like Doug Wilson. More is impossible
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
Yeah so I imagine Fetisov could have put 50 to 60 points. But it was far from the best. It's a very long way from Paul Coffey. Even being open-minded, I can accept Fetisov as a player like Doug Wilson. More is impossible
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Yes sure, and Makarov was on Dave Lumley's level
Please stop embarrassing yourself. "open-minded :dumbo:".
 
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avgard said:
oveckin whole careers paked infront opponent goal and noboty touching him. in pp he enjoying full minits of play and no marking. still as greyhere he fully playing over 20 min on game and all. feetspeed zero but this above method enjoyed from nhl headquarters i dont know why he is towarding 1000 goal line. granpa would also reaching every line this way. no way he top 50 in all time goalscorers list. please retire dont go 1000. not impressed by this

sir avgard hockeyprofessor
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IMG_2140.jpeg
 
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Dirtyf1ghter said:
Season 2007/08 : 5,57 goals per game
Season 2023/24 : 6,23 goals per game

Proportional to the number of goals scored in 2024, Ovechkin only reached 125 points in his record year. Very far from 144.

In his prime, Ovechkin accumulated countless shots on the ice to painfully reach 112 points. At his prime, Kucherov helped his teammates score 100 times alongside 44 goals.

Stamkos has just said that the most amazing thing is that he plays without trying to score points. Ovechkin did not give this impression in 2008. His ultra-selfish play was denounced.
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Somehow I knew if I opened this thread I’d find you here. And you didn’t disappoint.
 
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Planetov said:
Somehow I knew if I opened this thread I’d find you here. And you didn’t disappoint.
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As I find Ovechkin the most overrated in the history of hockey, no surprise that I intervene in debates which pit him against players better than him.

Especially since the arguments about Ovechkin do not convince me. The argument for the best prime has just fallen this season. Never has Ovechkin had the level of Kucherov this season.
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
Season 2007/08 : 5,57 goals per game
Season 2023/24 : 6,23 goals per game

Proportional to the number of goals scored in 2024, Ovechkin only reached 125 points in his record year. Very far from 144.

In his prime, Ovechkin accumulated countless shots on the ice to painfully reach 112 points. At his prime, Kucherov helped his teammates score 100 times alongside 44 goals.

Stamkos has just said that the most amazing thing is that he plays without trying to score points. Ovechkin did not give this impression in 2008. His ultra-selfish play was denounced.
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In what world is 125 points (with 21 more goals) “very far” from 144 points in a much higher scoring era lol

You need to control your bias a bit, this is just insane
 
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Demandedace said:
In what world is 125 points (with 21 more goals) “very far” from 144 points in a much higher scoring era lol

You need to control your bias a bit, this is just insane
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I don't know if you understood but 125 is the increase of 112 in relation to the context.. So the gap remains big. 19. Ouch. Kucherov had 2 seasons above Ovechkin's best season. ++++ Play-Offs.
 
If we're talking greatness in terms of stardom, I think Kucherov is in tough to beat Ovie. The Great 8 is renowned for his flair, flashy goals and power (along with coming into striking distance of catching 99's goals record) which undoubtedly already makes him an icon. Not sure how his legacy is in Russia but I'd assume it's up there also, whereas Kucherov isn't nearly as famous outside hockey circles.

Performance wise, Kucherov could conceivably approach Ovie if 8 retired soon and Kucherov stayed his shifty wizardly self for the next 8 years, since his scoring pace and Cup winning pedigree are his strongest arguments. If the Lightning fall off though, it could affect his personal scoring totals and team accolades and that could lessen his argument for how great his legacy could be.
 
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Dirtyf1ghter said:
I don't know if you understood but 125 is the increase of 112 in relation to the context.. So the gap remains big. 19. Ouch. Kucherov had 2 seasons above Ovechkin's best season. ++++ Play-Offs.
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For many seasons, Ovechkin was debatably the best player in the NHL. It was him and Crosby. You could easily pick 2-4 players you would rather have on your team besides Kucherov this year alone. No offense, he’s been amazing. But he’s got a bit of work to do to catch Ovy.
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
As I find Ovechkin the most overrated in the history of hockey, no surprise that I intervene in debates which pit him against players better than him.

Especially since the arguments about Ovechkin do not convince me. The argument for the best prime has just fallen this season. Never has Ovechkin had the level of Kucherov this season.
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This is where you’re mistaken. Player v player debates always devolve into the diminishing and degradation of both players. You do not intervene, you perpetuate.
 
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Dirtyf1ghter said:
Season 2007/08 : 5,57 goals per game
Season 2023/24 : 6,23 goals per game

Proportional to the number of goals scored in 2024, Ovechkin only reached 125 points in his record year. Very far from 144.

In his prime, Ovechkin accumulated countless shots on the ice to painfully reach 112 points. At his prime, Kucherov helped his teammates score 100 times alongside 44 goals.

Stamkos has just said that the most amazing thing is that he plays without trying to score points. Ovechkin did not give this impression in 2008. His ultra-selfish play was denounced.
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Interesting how you only include points but not goals as if it isn't Hockey fact that scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in the game. I also like how you don't even mention at all entirely that Ovechkin is about to break arguably the hardest sports record.

Maybe Ovie had to be a bit more selfish because unlike Kucherov who played his career with 3 other already locks for HOF (Stamkos, Hedman, Vasy) and 90%+ likely 4 (Point), Ovechkin basically has one guy with an outside shot of getting in in Backstrom.

The bottom line is you don't pass the greatest goal scorer of all time because you did something that 2 other guys also did. He also gets docked heavily for cheating his way to a cup and just in general being a whiny cry baby

Dirtyf1ghter said:
As I find Ovechkin the most overrated in the history of hockey, no surprise that I intervene in debates which pit him against players better than him.

Especially since the arguments about Ovechkin do not convince me. The argument for the best prime has just fallen this season. Never has Ovechkin had the level of Kucherov this season.
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Lmfao yeah most overrated about to break one of the hardest records in all of sports from arguably the greatest figure in all of sports.....definitely overrated, unlike Kucherov who is surrounded by HOF but still needs to cheat his way to a cup.
 
Lyons71 said:
For many seasons, Ovechkin was debatably the best player in the NHL. It was him and Crosby. You could easily pick 2-4 players you would rather have on your team besides Kucherov this year alone. No offense, he’s been amazing. But he’s got a bit of work to do to catch Ovy.
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2008 to 2010 ok. That's all. The level of elite players is higher today. Patrick Kane was a new thing in the NHL at the time. Now it comes out every year.
 
NVious said:
Interesting how you only include points but not goals as if it isn't Hockey fact that scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in the game. I also like how you don't even mention at all entirely that Ovechkin is about to break arguably the hardest sports record.

Maybe Ovie had to be a bit more selfish because unlike Kucherov who played his career with 3 other already locks for HOF (Stamkos, Hedman, Vasy) and 90%+ likely 4 (Point), Ovechkin basically has one guy with an outside shot of getting in in Backstrom.

The bottom line is you don't pass the greatest goal scorer of all time because you did something that 2 other guys also did. He also gets docked heavily for cheating his way to a cup and just in general being a whiny cry baby


Lmfao yeah most overrated about to break one of the hardest records in all of sports from arguably the greatest figure in all of sports.....definitely overrated, unlike Kucherov who is surrounded by HOF but still needs to cheat his way to a cup.
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If goals were a priority, Cole Eiserman would be seen as the No. 1 pick in the draft.

Goals are what establishes Ovechkin as a great player. If you take away that ability, he's not even elite anymore. But in a debate against Kucherov it is insufficient. Matthews is better than Ovechkin in this area and it is insufficient against Kucherov.
 
Dirtyf1ghter said:
Incomprehensible stats, I don't know what you're talking about
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If numbers are so hard for you, why even debate?
Here is a picture. Please don't tell me it's AI generated.

1713560255367.png


It's sad NHL didn't allow that happen 3 times in a row. All those thousand debates would never be existed.
 
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Randyne said:
If numbers are so hard for you, why even debate?
Here is a picture. Please don't tell me it's AI generated.

View attachment 855381

It's sad NHL didn't allow that happen 3 times in a row. All those thousand debates would never be existed.
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Missing 1 Stanley Cup, 3 Prince Wales Cup, 1 Art trophy. Cups which have more value than the Richard Trophy, which disinterests practically all elite players.

What did Ovechkin's goals bring to Washington ? 1 title in 20 years, the only one that Washington reached the conference finals. Not crazy compared to Tampa's 6 appearances with Kucherov.
 
Arthur Morgan said:
he missed 50 goals 10 times over his career and 4 times in his first 8 seasons. but he was a superstar right out the gate


I would certainly hope that Kucherov would be the better Russian over Matthews
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Well, nobody’s ever had more 50 goal seasons than Ovi, so he sets the bar there. He got very close again on multiple occasions (46, 48, 49 goal season), and you need to factor in lockouts and the pandemic.

16 years separate his 1st and last 50 goal seasons.
 
Alexander the Gr8 said:
Well, nobody’s ever had more 50 goal seasons than Ovi, so he sets the bar there. He got very close again on multiple occasions (46, 48, 49 goal season), and you need to factor in lockouts and the pandemic.

16 years separate his 1st and last 50 goal seasons.
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not trying to shit on him at all. just didnt score 50 goals every season. its actually crazy that hes prob had more 50s in his 30s than he did in his 20s. I could be wrong on that though

Kuch and other players have lost close to as many games with covid shutting down seasons but OV missed his 1st season to a lock out so he prob lost more games
 
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