Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller? | Part 2

[Bankerguy]

Honestly, he's the heart and soul of the team right now.

He's such a complete player. You couldnt win with a team of 12 Boesers, or 12 Pettersson...but you should as hell could win with a team of 12 Jt Millers!! He can set them up, he can score, he can hit, he can play all three forward positions and is good at back-checking.

 

[Tables of Stats]

One of the things that nobody has mentioned is that unlike the 'mentorpedes' of the past Miller actually does bring a great example of how to play the game to this team. He's skilled, yet he plays the most complete game of anyone on our team, he's older than most of our core but not so much older as to be unrelatable. It almost feels like what Sundin did for the team is going to happen with JT Miller.

 

[Buzz Gunderson]

IMO Peter, the Derek Stepan/Raanta for 2017 - 7th overall pick (Lias Andersson) and Tony DeAngelo is looking terrible for Chayka.

Stepan has just 6 goals and 6 assists this year with a $6.5 Million cap hit, that’s brutal. Raanta lost the starting job to Kuemper and has look awful since Kuempers injury. Raanta’s cap hit is $4.25 million.

Meanwhile DeAngelo is having a career year 8 goals 20 assists. And NYR have a good prospect in Andersson who was drafted 7th overall

It’s a trade that is not looking good for Chayka

The Stepan trade was putrid as was the Domi trade. They were as bad or worse then the Gudbranson trade and I hate that trade.

LOL at anyone paying Derek Stepan 6.5 million.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Because we are not likely to make the playoffs.

And this team wont challenge for the cup for at the very least 3 years, maybe more.


It wasnt too long ago when Canuck fans hated Luongo and Näslund for being "playoff chokers."
Now all you need to do is make the playoffs and call it a success...



Tiny sample size?

We most likely will make the playoffs. If we don’t make a run for the cup in 3 years or maybe more than the team needs to be blown up. It’s that simple. May as well take their shot

 

[Motte and Bailey]

One of the things that nobody has mentioned is that unlike the 'mentorpedes' of the past Miller actually does bring a great example of how to play the game to this team. He's skilled, yet he plays the most complete game of anyone on our team, he's older than most of our core but not so much older as to be unrelatable. It almost feels like what Sundin did for the team is going to happen with JT Miller.

Miller also came into a good situation starting with elite line mates immediately. If 28 year old Loui Eriksson signed here last summer to play with Pettersson and Boeser he would be putting up points too. Unfortunately Loui came onto a team in decline and had barely any prime offensive minutes after the Sedin experiment failed. That’s hard for any player to produce in. Situation matters a lot.

 

[PG Canuck]

I think the biggest thing is, is that he's clearly not just a beneficiary from playing with Pettersson and Boeser. He's quite clearly driving his own offense at times and is helping Pettersson and Boeser reach new levels.

 

[clay]

Miller also came into a good situation starting with elite line mates immediately. If 28 year old Loui Eriksson signed here last summer to play with Pettersson and Boeser he would be putting up points too. Unfortunately Loui came onto a team in decline and had barely any prime offensive minutes after the Sedin experiment failed. That’s hard for any player to produce in. Situation matters a lot.

Loui was 31 when we signed him.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Loui was 31 when we signed him.

Actually we were both wrong I just looked it up and he was 30 when he signed but yeah the point still stands.

 

[clay]

Actually we were both wrong I just looked it up and he was 30 when he signed but yeah the point still stands.

You’re seriously calling me wrong on a technicality? He turned 31 before he stepped foot on the ice (his birthday is July 17th). JT Miller was 5 years younger coming into this season. Huge difference.

 

[Knight53]

Home run of a trade. Jt Miller should hit 70ish points while being excellent defensively.

Fits in like a glove with EP and BB.

 

[the_gman83]

The other thing Miller brings to the Canucks is playoff experience - and a lot of it. I didn't realize his teams have made the playoffs every year he's been in the league. He's played 61 playoff games, including 3 trips to the Eastern Conference Finals and once to the Stanley Cup finals.

 

[PG Canuck]

Miller also came into a good situation starting with elite line mates immediately. If 28 year old Loui Eriksson signed here last summer to play with Pettersson and Boeser he would be putting up points too. Unfortunately Loui came onto a team in decline and had barely any prime offensive minutes after the Sedin experiment failed. That’s hard for any player to produce in. Situation matters a lot.

Do you even read your own posts?

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Do you even read your own posts?

Is that a requirement? I write my own posts and if it’s a big post then I might proofread it for typos but generally I don’t have to read them. Yeah sometimes I might misremember a factoid but I will always own up to it right away. Yeah Erkksson was 30 not 28 when he signed, I already conceded that. The meat of my point was still the same.

 

[PG Canuck]

Is that a requirement? I write my own posts and if it’s a big post then I might proofread it for typos but generally I don’t have to read them. Yeah sometimes I might misremember a factoid but I will always own up to it right away. Yeah Erkksson was 30 not 28 when he signed. The meat of my point was still the same.

I'm not focused on the age error of the post - you think Eriksson of LAST YEAR could do what Miller is doing? He had one good year in Boston, and he;s generally been dogshit for the last 6-7 years.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

I'm not focused on the age error of the post - you think Eriksson of LAST YEAR could do what Miller is doing?

No that’s not what I meant. I meant the Eriksson of 2016 when he signed would put up points and do much better with this core than the core that existed in 2016. Miller is way better than Eriksson though it’s why Miller cost a 1st and Eriksson was free. I’m not saying they would’ve performed the same. My point was, yeah JT Miller is great but the environment that JT Miller landed in here was as good as any player could hope for. I contrasted it with Eriksson who quickly found out that the team he signed was on the decline not on the upswing like we are now.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Is that a requirement? I write my own posts and if it’s a big post then I might proofread it for typos but generally I don’t have to read them. Yeah sometimes I might misremember a factoid but I will always own up to it right away. Yeah Erkksson was 30 not 28 when he signed, I already conceded that. The meat of my point was still the same.

No, the meat of your point totally changes. 26 vs 28 compared to 26 vs 30 is a huge deal. You put 30 year old Eriksson on this team and he still puts up similar numbers to his first year with the team. His hockey skills were shot and a lack of motivation (Eriksson did not fumble the bag) would've have given us the same net result - a contract that was one of the worst contracts in the league from ~mid point of his first season here. We expected his 3rd year onward to have this type of production, not his entire duration of contract...

 

[Tables of Stats]

Miller also came into a good situation starting with elite line mates immediately. If 28 year old Loui Eriksson signed here last summer to play with Pettersson and Boeser he would be putting up points too. Unfortunately Loui came onto a team in decline and had barely any prime offensive minutes after the Sedin experiment failed. That’s hard for any player to produce in. Situation matters a lot.

Miller isn't 28 though he's 26 and Eriksson was 31 before playing his first game for us. So you have a large age gap as well as the fact that Eriksson was clearly on the decline when we picked him up. That 63 point season was a mirage going against the trend as a formerly 70 point player had, from '12 - '13 to '14 - '15, declined into a 40 to 50 point player who offered fairly little outside of that declining point production. Even if he had found success with the Sedins and had avoided the injury bug he still wouldn't have been a good signing as the Sedins retired while Eriksson still had 4 more years to play without his intended linemates.

Meanwhile, Miller comes in 5 years younger, on a cheaper contract, and brings size, face-off ability, two-way player, and a well rounded offensive game that has, thus far, gelled with basically everybody he's lined up next to. Miller is exactly the type of player we'd love to see Horvat become and I think players like Gaudette and Virtanen could also potentially learn to play the game the right way from having Miller on their team; the same goes for Podkolzin in the future.

I just don't see the comparison between these two players at all.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

I'm not focused on the age error of the post - you think Eriksson of LAST YEAR could do what Miller is doing? He had one good year in Boston, and he;s generally been dog**** for the last 6-7 years.

While his play here has been more than worthy of criticism from the very minute he stepped on the ice, he was not seen as terrible for all of the years in Boston. It was generally regarded as him recovering from his concussion when he had his bad seasons there.

But it was definitely telling when Bruins fans were glad they didn't sign their 30 goal, 63 point winger for 6 million dollars. They dodged a bullet.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

No, the meat of your point totally changes. 26 vs 28 compared to 26 vs 30 is a huge deal. You put 30 year old Eriksson on this team and he still puts up similar numbers to his first year with the team. His hockey skills were shot and a lack of motivation (Eriksson did not fumble the bag) would've have given us the same net result - a contract that was one of the worst contracts in the league from ~mid point of his first season here. We expected his 3rd year onward to have this type of production, not his entire duration of contract...

Nah I think Eriksson was mostly fine in his first year in terms of effort, he was just snakebitten. Then he got less and less offensive opportunities and then he became the zombie Eriksson we all hate to watch. But I don’t think it’s an inherent trait of the player. During the last few weeks Eriksson has come back and played well on the 2nd line in a role where he is asked to shut down the McDavids and Eichels of the world. That’s still a good player, an NHL player, but he’s just overpaid.

If 30 year old Eriksson signed with the 2019-2020 Canucks I think his time here would have gone a lot differently and he wouldn’t have the reputation he does with the fans.

 

[Canucks LB]

The guys hands with pressure is absolutely ridiculous, I can’t believe how good he is with the puck

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Miller isn't 28 though he's 26 and Eriksson was 31 before playing his first game for us. So you have a large age gap as well as the fact that Eriksson was clearly on the decline when we picked him up. That 63 point season was a mirage going against the trend as a formerly 70 point player had, from '12 - '13 to '14 - '15, declined into a 40 to 50 point player who offered fairly little outside of that declining point production. Even if he had found success with the Sedins and had avoided the injury bug he still wouldn't have been a good signing as the Sedins retired while Eriksson still had 4 more years to play without his intended linemates.

Meanwhile, Miller comes in 5 years younger, on a cheaper contract, and brings size, face-off ability, two-way player, and a well rounded offensive game that has, thus far, gelled with basically everybody he's lined up next to. Miller is exactly the type of player we'd love to see Horvat become and I think players like Gaudette and Virtanen could also potentially learn to play the game the right way from having Miller on their team; the same goes for Podkolzin in the future.

I just don't see the comparison between these two players at all.

I wasn’t comparing the players. I was contrasting the circumstances of the team when they each joined it. Miller came at the best possible time while Loui came at the worst possible time. And that timing I believe has a huge effect on performance.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Nah I think Eriksson was mostly fine in his first year in terms of effort, he was just snakebitten. Then he got less and less offensive opportunities and then he became the zombie Eriksson we all hate to watch. But I don’t think it’s an inherent trait of the player. During the last few weeks Eriksson has come back and played well on the 2nd line in a role where he is asked to shut down the McDavids and Eichels of the world. That’s still a good player, an NHL player, but he’s just overpaid.

If 30 year old Eriksson signed with the 2019-2020 Canucks I think his time here would have gone a lot differently and he wouldn’t have the reputation he does with the fans.

Hold up. Let's get this clear.

34-year-old Loui Eriksson has never, nor ever will be put in a role to shut down the McDavids and Eichels of the world. If he ever was, they would literally have a field day and rack it up on the scoresheet and he would not have "played well...in (the) role to shut down

 

[Tables of Stats]

I wasn’t comparing the players. I was contrasting the circumstances of the team when they each joined it. Miller came at the best possible time while Loui came at the worst possible time. And that timing I believe has a huge effect on performance.

I also disagree with that assessment.

Yes, the current Miller dropped onto the same team that Eriksson was would have had worse counting stats, that's obvious. However, I think he'd have made for an excellent fit with either the Sedins or Horvat meaning that the Sedins would have had a stable RW instead of the rotating cast of Eriksson, Burrows, Sutter, etc that they actually played with that season.

Does he single-handedly change the team's fate? Just ask the Oilers about that... Does he show players such as Horvat and Virtanen how to play a game suited to their skills? I think so. Most importantly, does he sulk and proceed to play like a replacement-level player with negative trade value after a troubled first two seasons here? That can't be answered but given his age and contract, I'd say that seems highly unlikely.

Again, you can't compare the two signings like that and I'm not sure why you're even trying to do so. Especially when the team is in a much better spot than they were in the '16 - '17 season. As much as their ages and contract lengths make the comparison iffy I think Miller is much closer to a Vrbata or Vanek signing than he is to an Eriksson.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

We most likely will make the playoffs. If we don’t make a run for the cup in 3 years or maybe more than the team needs to be blown up. It’s that simple. May as well take their shot

Just curious.

How much money would you be willing to bet on us making the playoffs?
Just to gauge how sure you are of this.

 

[F A N]

Just curious.

How much money would you be willing to bet on us making the playoffs?
Just to gauge how sure you are of this.

I'm curious if you're willing to take a bet and even offer odds. I know @y2kcanucks was taking bets at the beginning of the season but it didn't seem like he was interested in smaller bets.