Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller? | Part 2

[I am toxic]

You really are toxic lol. At least you own it

It's literally true

 

[Intangibos]

So the Canucks problem is getting a top line, ppg, 220 pound, dominant faceoff taker, team hit leader on a cost friendly contract? If we get a few more of these we would be what? The Bruins?Tampa Bay? Maybe we can get Morgan Reilly for a mid-first next, after that McKinnon lets say a couple of first just to be fair? Is that the road to mediocrity? Getting great players on good contracts is not the road to mediocrity. Doing nothing but hoping to draft stars year after year is the way to mediocre results. Look at all the top teams draft histories none of them are exceptional though all did hit stars. Vancouver already has hit two, now is the time to add l, not wait.

We can't afford more great players on good contracts because of all the trash players on trash contracts we have. He explained that pretty clearly in his post, I'm not sure how you managed to not catch that.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Where did I write the word "still"?

Did you think we would be a poor Team without Miller? We looked decent the moment Hughes arrived. We were going to be a bubble team regardless of Miller and he just pushed us over the top

 

[Bleach Clean]

Did you think we would be a poor Team without Miller? We looked decent the moment Hughes arrived. We were going to be a bubble team regardless of Miller and he just pushed us over the top

They were a poor team, by record, prior to the full-time additions made this past offseason. Yes or no?

Hughes wasn’t here last year either. There was no baseline for his performance, or Demko’s own.

 

[DonnyNucker]

They were a poor team, by record, prior to the full-time additions made this past offseason. Yes or no?

Hughes wasn’t here last year either. There was no baseline for his performance, or Demko’s own.

Hughes played with the team last year? What do you mean. Small sample size but his impact was immediate. Things changed the minute he threw on the jersey. Hence why they went after Miller. They were slightly below average without him. You can’t be that shocked the team was going to improve with or without Miller

 

[Bleach Clean]

Hughes played with the team last year? What do you mean. Small sample size but his impact was immediate. Things changed the minute he threw on the jersey. Hence why they went after Miller. They were slightly below average without him. You can’t be that shocked the team was going to improve with or without Miller

They finished 9th worst in the league before trading for Miller. That's a poor team. They had the 2nd worst record over 4 years. That's terrible. All of this was the backdrop to the Miller trade.

Now, you may think that seeing Hughes play for 5 games justified trading that 1st rounder. You are most welcome to that opinion, however unsupported. Rationally though, I think you have to admit that the logic in taking that risk at that time was highly dubious? If you are at all being honest with what that team did over that span.

 

[Javaman]

While I love Miller as a player, and Benning seems to have won the gamble at this point, Markstrom's injury means the nightmare scenario is still on the table:

The Canucks miss the playoffs this season by a small margin and draft outside the top 10, which means they almost certainly won't draft a player who has a positive impact next season. Benning is forced to downgrade the roster for next year because of how badly he's managed the team's salary/cap structure, which means they are worse next season. Then, they miss the playoffs, but win the draft lottery, and NJ drifts into Oiler territory for most first overall picks within a decade.

I acknowledge the odds are against the nightmare scenario, but I wish it was way more unlikely than it currently is.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Easily our best forward this season. He's the reason Pettersson is PPG, not the other way around.

 

[canuckking1]

Easily our best forward this season. He's the reason Pettersson is PPG, not the other way around.

I mean considering defence usually cheat on Petey it gives him a ton of room. It’s not a coincidence that he’s having a career year along side him ....

 

[Knight53]

 

[David71]

the trade keeps getting better and better everyday. he's the real true leader on this team since he's arrived. helping out the younger players petterson/boeser. talks alot according to his teammates. i think Jt deserves the alternate captain for next year if benning decides to trade sutter. if bo wasn't named captain i'd vote for Jt to become captain. very very vocal. hates to lose.

 

[member 290103]

the trade keeps getting better and better everyday. he's the real true leader on this team since he's arrived. helping out the younger players petterson/boeser. talks alot according to his teammates. i think Jt deserves the alternate captain for next year if benning decides to trade sutter. if bo wasn't named captain i'd vote for Jt to become captain. very very vocal. hates to lose.

i think it’s more likely that Benning legally adopts Sutter and moves him into a spare bedroom on his Oregon farm than it is that he trades him.

 

[David71]

i think it’s more likely that Benning legally adopts Sutter and moves him into a spare bedroom on his Oregon farm than it is that he trades him.

teams will have space for a 3rd line center with a year left im sure. maybe at the draft or at some point in the off-season.

 

[F A N]

Hughes played with the team last year? What do you mean. Small sample size but his impact was immediate. Things changed the minute he threw on the jersey. Hence why they went after Miller. They were slightly below average without him. You can’t be that shocked the team was going to improve with or without Miller

Exactly. And please just ignore those who thinks that only their opinion is supported and rational. It's like they bait you into discussion so they can tell you that your opinion is not supported and your arguments are illogical like this is debate club. All calculated moves are now considered risky gambles. I bet if Gillis made his few bold moves away from contention remarks today he would be skewered by those who to this day hate the Miller trade.

Right after the Penguins drafted Crosby they made a serious of moves to improve the team including Gonchar. That signing would have been panned here by the posters who hate the Miller trade still because the only rational way to think about it is that the Penguins were a poor team and Gonchar would be super old and in decline by the time the Penguin were ready to contend for the Cup with Crosby and Malkin. Gonchar playing a big part in Crosby and Malkin winning their first club? Well they couldn't have expected that could they?

 

[Hit the post]

the trade keeps getting better and better everyday. he's the real true leader on this team since he's arrived. helping out the younger players petterson/boeser. talks alot according to his teammates. i think Jt deserves the alternate captain for next year if benning decides to trade sutter. if bo wasn't named captain i'd vote for Jt to become captain. very very vocal. hates to lose.

Easier to be gung ho when your team is winning. Playing on a lottery pick team every season for the previous four seasons tends to start sucking the life out of you. Reason why I’ve never been on the tank wagon party. You develop bad habits. Unless I’m mistaken, JT Miller has been on teams that have made the postseason six consecutive seasons.

 

[NuxFan09]

I know the mere thought would make many people here cringe, but maybe this move wasn't a lucky gamble that paid off. Maybe Benning and Co. simply made the right call here. Not suggesting they knew just how good Miller would be, just talking about the move to get him, period, and build a competent roster that could conceivably start contending for a playoff spot, which they are.

Whatever happens this year, it was absolutely the right call to take the next step and if you're going to.do that, you better get it right. Did JB ever get it right with J.T. Miller!

Still not really a fan of Benning, by the way. Just calling a spade and spade and giving credit where it's due. Phew, that was actually....pretty easy!

 

[F A N]

I wonder what those who are still criticizing the Miller trade think of the Taylor Hall trade if the Coyotes miss the playoffs. Good trade because of timing? Afterall, the Coyotes were in first place in the division at the time and came close to making the playoffs the previous year but for injuries. No one could have predicted this right?

 

[NoShowWilly]

as someone who wasn't a fan, this has turned out to be a very solid trade and a gamble by the GM that I got to respect.

obviously one would hope Miller keeps it up in subsequent years as this is a career year even compared to his time in junior.

it is a star player producing better than a point per 100k which, for me personally, is a very easy to understand stat I use that brings value to a team.

He is signed for another 3 years at 5.25m price tag too which i doubt we'd ever have gotten him signed to had he been Vancouver property.

 

[Tony Stacks]

3 years at 5 mil each for a big ppg forward that can play every position, both ends of the rink and can take over games is one of the biggest steals in the league.

 

[VancouverJagger]

3 years at 5 mil each for a big ppg forward that can play every position, both ends of the rink and can take over games is one of the biggest steals in the league.

There are still people who are saying this trade was a mistake because of "process"..................(Yes it's true these people exist)

 

[Hit the post]

With the benefit of hindsight, I’d know the winning numbers to the 649.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

There's still people who are saying this trade was a mistake because of "process"..................(Yes it's true these people exist)

Completely dishonest logic....I remember the narrative pushers pulling that one out of the hat on the Granlund/Shinkaruk trade.

 

[Bleach Clean]

There are still people who are saying this trade was a mistake because of "process"..................(Yes it's true these people exist)

Can you categorize a mistake as an overall trade 'win'? Is that possible?

For example, if I trade Trevor Linden in 1997-98 to DET for the #210th pick (7th rounder) and then end up drafting Zetterberg -> Is that a trade win based upon value? Further, is that a correct or incorrect process?

 

[bandwagonesque]

For example, if I trade Trevor Linden in 1997-98 to DET for the #210th pick (7th rounder) and then end up drafting Zetterberg -> Is that a trade win based upon value? Further, is that a correct or incorrect process?

This example is completely unrelated to what we're talking about. A 7th round pick isn't a player and can't be evaluated or projected in the same way. Also, you're deliberately using an extreme example you know would never actually exist, which is a logical fallacy.

Appeal to Extremes

 

[Bleach Clean]

This example is completely unrelated to what we're talking about. A 7th round pick isn't a player and can't be evaluated or projected in the same way. Also, you're deliberately using an extreme example you know would never actually exist, which is a logical fallacy.

Appeal to Extremes

Oh it's completely related to what we are talking about, but I take your point about an extreme example that is unlikely to exist. Switch that 7th rounder to late 1st in 1999, which then still allows the Canucks to draft Zetterberg.

Are you going to say that isn't possible either? Because I have something coming for you if you do.