Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller? | Part 2

Vancouver_2010

Canucks and Oilers fan
Jun 21, 2006
6,383
1,340
There are still people who are saying this trade was a mistake because of "process"..................(Yes it's true these people exist)
I am still here, it's still a mistake to make such a trade. This team could easily over-arhieved this season and went back to Earth next season. Imagine trading a lottery pick for Miller. How is that a win? We shouldn't make this trade to make us a bubble team, this is beyond stupid.

If we made this trade back in 2011 (for a similar player to JT miller today), this would be an awesome trade.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
26,362
16,340
I am still here, it's still a mistake to make such a trade. This team could easily over-arhieved this season and went back to Earth next season. Imagine trading a lottery pick for Miller. How is that a win? We shouldn't make this trade to make us a bubble team, this is beyond stupid.
Whats your point..?..Do you prefer the team to eternally tread water at the bottom part of the standings (at that point, losing becomes acceptable) ...Teams generally go from a cellar dweller, to a bubble team, to a contender..You dont go from cellar dweller to contender...I'm not getting your logic.
 

Bleach Clean

Registered User
Aug 9, 2006
27,461
7,158
Whats your point..?..Do you prefer the team to eternally tread water at the bottom part of the standings (at that point, losing becomes acceptable) ...Teams generally go from a cellar dweller, to a bubble team, to a contender..You dont go from cellar dweller to contender...I'm not getting your logic.


Your understanding of how teams improve does not actually address the necessity for this particular trade. Benning trading his 2019 2nd and a prospect would have been better received. The canucks having a stronger season in 2019 would have made it more palatable. Pick accumulation and a proper rebuild would have lessened the blow. etc...

This particular trade, with it's timing, context and value, is not a justification for your overarching premise.
 

kanuck87

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
7,175
1,468
Whats your point..?..Do you prefer the team to eternally tread water at the bottom part of the standings (at that point, losing becomes acceptable) ...Teams generally go from a cellar dweller, to a bubble team, to a contender..You dont go from cellar dweller to contender...I'm not getting your logic.

Do you not find it concerning that our GM had to make this kind of a trade just to go from a cellar dweller to a bubble team? What does this say about future moves that he'll have to make to go from a bubble team to a contender, which is by far, a much more difficult jump?

There's very little ammo left for us to make a big move to get us to that next step. Very little cap space, no 1st round draft pick and no high end prospects.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
26,362
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Do you not find it concerning that our GM had to make this kind of a trade just to go from a cellar dweller to a bubble team? What does this say about future moves that he'll have to make to go from a bubble team to a contender, which is by far, a much more difficult jump?

There's very little ammo left for us to make a big move to get us to that next step. Very little cap space, no 1st round draft pick and no high end prospects.
Obviously shocked at giving up the 1st, but this was a great trade by Benning...Its a way harder jump to get out of cellar dweller to playoff team..Ask Edmonton,Buffalo,Florida,Columbus,Arizona.(who have all gone into rebuild upon rebuild) .

How many years were you planning to wait until a proactive move is made to get in the post season..?..Another 2-3 years.?.Maybe when Horvat is 28 (If I were him at that point,I'd ask for a trade out of here)..You can keep waiting for 'high end ' prospects till the cows come home,...Is that shiny new 1st round pick is going to save the day.?...and unless you're picking top 5 (which we won't be),that player is realistically 2-3 years away .
 
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kanuck87

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
7,175
1,468
Obviously shocked at giving up the 1st, but this was a great trade by Benning...Its a way harder jump to get out of cellar dweller to playoff team..Ask Edmonton,Buffalo,Florida,Columbus,Arizona.(who have all gone into rebuild upon rebuild) .

How many years were you planning to wait until a proactive move is made to get in the post season..?..Another 2-3 years.?.Maybe when Horvat is 28 (If I were him at that point,I'd ask for a trade out of here)..You can keep waiting for 'high end ' prospects till the cows come home,..and unless you're picking top 5 (which we won't be),that player is realistically 2-3 years away .

The goal here isn't just to make the post-season. If I had to wait two or three more years to ensure that this team was in the proper place to actually make a trade like JT Miller for a 1st, then I would wait that long, even if it means Horvat is 28 by then. This team clearly isn't a contender right now and there's no point mortgaging any major part of the future in order to make this step.

Like I said, this team has very little ammo left to actually make that next jump to contender status. What precious cap space that they might have coming off the book in the next 2-3 seasons is all going to get eaten up by extensions for Pettersson and Hughes. No first and second round picks this season. No high-end prospects to supplement our existing core any time soon. No more money to go sign effective (but over-priced) bottom-6 players. We've effectively topped out.
 

VancouverJagger

Not trying to fit in
Feb 26, 2017
2,233
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Vancouver - Coal Harbour
I am still here, it's still a mistake to make such a trade. This team could easily over-arhieved this season and went back to Earth next season. Imagine trading a lottery pick for Miller. How is that a win? We shouldn't make this trade to make us a bubble team, this is beyond stupid.

If we made this trade back in 2011 (for a similar player to JT miller today), this would be an awesome trade.

So as of today that trade is a mistake? If you could go back and rescind it you would? It's ok to live in the today.........
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
26,362
16,340
The goal here isn't just to make the post-season. If I had to wait two or three more years to ensure that this team was in the proper place to actually make a trade like JT Miller for a 1st, then I would wait that long, even if it means Horvat is 28 by then. This team clearly isn't a contender right now and there's no point mortgaging any major part of the future in order to make this step.

Like I said, this team has very little ammo left to actually make that next jump to contender status. What precious cap space that they might have coming off the book in the next 2-3 seasons is all going to get eaten up by extensions for Pettersson and Hughes. No first and second round picks this season. No high-end prospects to supplement our existing core any time soon. No more money to go sign effective (but over-priced) bottom-6 players. We've effectively topped out.
There's no guarantee they will be a playoff team in 2-3 years either..You can keep postponing, and waiting for those shiny draft picks (the oilers did that for years),and then we will magically be SC contenders?

Like I said..this years 1st round pick more than likely won't have any impact for 2-3 years.

We could not have Miller, have completely have gobs of cap space (which is like winning the lottery when you're 102) and be completely out of it.... looking forward to next years draft..I know what i would pick.
 

kanuck87

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
7,175
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There's no guarantee they will be a playoff team in 2-3 years either..You can keep postponing, and waiting for those shiny draft picks (the oilers did that for years),and then we will magically be SC contenders?

Like I said..this years 1st round pick more than likely won't have any impact for 2-3 years.

We could not have Miller, have completely have gobs of cap space (which is like winning the lottery when you're 102) and be completely out of it.... looking forward to next years draft..I know what i would pick.

Just because we don't know what's going to happen in the future doesn't mean that it's okay to mortgage a large piece of it in a non-contending season.

Let's assume that you're correct that this year's 1st round pick (and 2nd round pick) won't have any impact for 2-3 seasons, aren't we still better off waiting to make the JT Miller for a 1st trade because at least if we wait, there's a chance that we'd be better positioned to be contenders? We knew that making the trade now (and the Toffoli trade), it still didn't give us much of a chance to win the Cup, so why are we putting so much stock into just making the playoffs?
 

Vancouver_2010

Canucks and Oilers fan
Jun 21, 2006
6,383
1,340
So as of today that trade is a mistake? If you could go back and rescind it you would? It's ok to live in the today.........
Yes, actually. This year is a deep draft, we should have tanked and gathered more picks. A trade like this is when we are a contender, not when we are a bubble team.
 

Vancouver_2010

Canucks and Oilers fan
Jun 21, 2006
6,383
1,340
Whats your point..?..Do you prefer the team to eternally tread water at the bottom part of the standings (at that point, losing becomes acceptable) ...Teams generally go from a cellar dweller, to a bubble team, to a contender..You dont go from cellar dweller to contender...I'm not getting your logic.
This is Benning's fault, if he went full rebuild earlier, this year could be a cup year, not just a bubble team even with Miller with us.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
26,362
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This is Benning's fault, if he went full rebuild earlier, this year could be a cup year, not just a bubble team even with Miller with us.
Didn't happen..as long as the Sedins were here, there was not going to be a 'full rebuild'...simple as that.....and thats Benning's fault?
 

VancouverJagger

Not trying to fit in
Feb 26, 2017
2,233
2,077
Vancouver - Coal Harbour
Yes, actually. This year is a deep draft, we should have tanked and gathered more picks. A trade like this is when we are a contender, not when we are a bubble team.

Well you are probably in the 1-5% who would rescind the trade if they could. I'm sure there's no way the Canucks would do that if they could. And they are the ones running the team.......not any of us.
 

Vancouver_2010

Canucks and Oilers fan
Jun 21, 2006
6,383
1,340
Didn't happen..as long as the Sedins were here, there was not going to be a 'full rebuild'...simple as that.....and thats Benning's fault?
That make zero sense, just because the Sedins is here, that doesn't mean a full rebuild can't happen. Especially during the last two years where they aren't superstar anymore. Yes, completely his fault. He should be fired years ago.

PS. Another loss to the leafs, and a freaking loss to the Senators! It proved how weak this team is without Markstrom playing like an all star.

Anyways, back to topic.
 
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Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
26,362
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That make zero sense, just because the Sedins is here, that doesn't mean a full rebuild can't happen. Especially during the last two years where they aren't superstar anymore. Yes, completely his fault. He should be fired years ago.

PS. Another loss to the leafs, and a freaking loss to the Senators! It proved how weak this team is without Markstrom playing like an all star.

Anyways, back to topic.
Wrong again..Benning didn’t sign the Sedins to a gazillion dollar contract..There was not going to be a rebuild with the twins here..get over it...
The owners know this as well..that’s why Benning is still here.
 

Vancouver_2010

Canucks and Oilers fan
Jun 21, 2006
6,383
1,340
Wrong again..Benning didn’t sign the Sedins to a gazillion dollar contract..There was not going to be a rebuild with the twins here..get over it...
The owners know this as well..that’s why Benning is still here.
Wrong again? Speak for yourself. Yes, I agreed the Sedins doesn't worth 7.5 million dollars at that stage of their career, but mind you that they have been underpaid for years before. Compare to the signing for Benning, this isn't even the worst. Sbisa for 3.5 million? LOL! Gudbranson for 4 million? wow. Don't even mention Myers for 6 million dollars. That's a whole new level of stupidity. At least when the Sedins signed for that amount of money, they are still producing first to second line numbers.


Even with the Sedins a full rebuild is completely possible. Who let veterans players walk without any compensation? Who tried to compete every single year and failed miserably every year? (Mind you we can still miss the playoffs this year). Who signed or traded for useless players? (except for Eriksson, he just scored 30 goals before joining the Canucks, so Benning is off the hook on that one)? Who gave away prime asset such as a first round pick when they are not supposed to be competing? This is all on Benning.
 
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mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,422
10,404
Wrong again? Speak that for yourself. Even with the Sedins a full rebuild is completely possible. Who let veterans players walk without any compensation? Who tried to compete every single year and failed miserably every year? (Mind you we can still miss the playoffs this year). Who signed or traded for useless players? (except for Eriksson, he just scored 30 goals before joining the canucks, so Benning is off the hook on that one)? Who gave away prime asset such as a first round pick when they are not supposed to be competing? This is all on Benning.
On the Aquilinis.

Can you see Franky giving Jimbo signing authority for a 6x6M contract?

I can't.
 

crowi

Registered Loser
May 11, 2012
8,539
3,282
Helsinki
WTF is process, understanding context is too difficult.

High-fives to those who understand those 2 very important things. I'm off before banned if not already!
 
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Billy Kvcmu

Registered User
Dec 5, 2014
28,396
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West Vancouver
I am still here, it's still a mistake to make such a trade. This team could easily over-arhieved this season and went back to Earth next season. Imagine trading a lottery pick for Miller. How is that a win? We shouldn't make this trade to make us a bubble team, this is beyond stupid.

If we made this trade back in 2011 (for a similar player to JT miller today), this would be an awesome trade.
Do you understand how rare it is get a PPG forward who can play at both ends even with the 2nd or 3rd overall pick?
 

Vancouver_2010

Canucks and Oilers fan
Jun 21, 2006
6,383
1,340
Do you understand how rare it is get a PPG forward who can play at both ends even with the 2nd or 3rd overall pick?
Because wasting prime asset on getting Miller, just to see him waste a year of his prime on potentially missing the playoffs, is clearly the way to go? This team clearly relies on the performance of Markstrom, without him they can't even win a game against the Senators.
 
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Billy Kvcmu

Registered User
Dec 5, 2014
28,396
17,196
West Vancouver
Because wasting prime asset on getting Miller, just to see him waste a year of his prime on potentially missing the playoffs, is clearly the way to go? This team clearly relies on the performance of Markstrom, without him they can't even win a game against the Senators.
He's signed until 2023
 

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