What changes next year?

[Nylanderthal]

They've won 2 playoff rounds since and missed the playoffs 5 times.

Both better outcomes than us.

 

[hockeynorth]

Yep people wanting to trade Rielly are stupid sandin isn't ready and can't skate like Rielly can and Sandin is afraid to take a hit to make a play . Rielly will take big hits and make hits when needed.

I'd actually seriously contest that Sandin is afraid to take a hit, the kid never shies away from physical play and got beat up on constantly

He just isn't quite ready to be a top 4 dman, and Rielly was great too! No need to put down one player to hype up another, you know? I thought Sandin unfortunately is just a touch too slow, and too inexperienced to make up for it for now. It'll come though! I do want to see Rielly back bc he along with Spezza, Campbell and Nylander were the 4 guys I thought carried us to game 7 to begin with.

 

[Mess]

IMO Dubas is sitting on 2 strikes. This series and the Jackets. The to me is whether refusal to commit to a big change this summer is strike 3, or if he can buy himself a year with a core trade and/or coaching change.

Either way this organization is in good shape moving forward whether it's Dubas at the helm or someone else. But I'm kind of scared of a reactionary move followed by Burke/Nonis hole digging.

If you're actually waiting for Dubas to make either a core player trade, and or coaching change and believe one is coming, then your not counting balls and strikes correctly. IMO

I don't believe Dubas has the balls (see what I did there?) to make a core player change, and I don't believe he will fire his BFF coach Keefe either, because he used his last get out of jail card coaching change when he replaced Babcock with Keefe, so you might as well call strike #3 now.

Dubas has been in that role for 3 years and your suggesting he could move on to coach #3, which doesn't seem like something the MLSE BOD would be on board since they're still paying Babcock his $5.85 mil salary until end of 2023, and also Keefe then and on the hook for a 3rd coaches salary as well. Ownership might not be on the same page as you thinking their in good GM hands going forward.

 

[justashadowof]

There are issues with Sandin that we've witnessed but it sure as hell has nothing to do with his bravery. "Afraid to take hit" is such an ill-informed comment.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I'm fine with moving Marner but people wanting Eichel in return don't realize neck injuries can be a serious long term issue if not properly dealt with.

Not only that, we'd be right back in the same position with half of our salary cap tied up in 4 forwards and very little depth. It's not the formula for success.

We would be better off with 2-3 good players that show up in the playoffs for almost 11 million in cap space.

 

[4thline]

If you're actually waiting for Dubas to make either a core player trade, and or coaching change and believe one is coming, then your not counting balls and strikes correctly. IMO

I'm saying that I think failure to do one or the other would be strike 3. I doubt it will be coaching, despite some deployment issues costing us

 

[leafsgirl12]

There are issues with Sandin that we've witnessed but it sure as hell has nothing to do with his bravery. "Afraid to take hit" is such an ill-informed comment.

Him trying to avoid a hit in one game lead to the one turnover but no doubt his skating is a bigger issue

 

[leafsgirl12]

I'd actually seriously contest that Sandin is afraid to take a hit, the kid never shies away from physical play and got beat up on constantly

He just isn't quite ready to be a top 4 dman, and Rielly was great too! No need to put down one player to hype up another, you know? I thought Sandin unfortunately is just a touch too slow, and too inexperienced to make up for it for now. It'll come though! I do want to see Rielly back bc he along with Spezza, Campbell and Nylander were the 4 guys I thought carried us to game 7 to begin with.

He did turnover the puck when trying to avoid a hit but his skating is a much bigger problem and needs to be worked on alot . Since one thing Rielly has that Sandin doesn't is his speed and great skating.

 

[m1ker]

I can't imagine the leafs having a better chance at winning a series next year than this. Do we really think that adding an old man for 1 million will change the outcome next playoffs? This team was built for the season. You can bring in as much grit as you want but if the big boys are playing like butterflies the team will always be soft

 

[hockeynorth]

He did turnover the puck when trying to avoid a hit but his skating is a much bigger problem and needs to be worked on alot . Since one thing Rielly has that Sandin doesn't is his speed and great skating.

Ah I get what you mean now, I just took it as inexperience and panicking as a result rather than avoiding contact bc he doesn't usually when he plays, but could be. I don't think Sandin will ever be a true #1, but probably a really good #3 at some point like a Muzzin.

 

[justashadowof]

2 strikes for Dubas? More like 5+ strikes:

1. Lost a winnable series to a mediocre Columbus team.
2. Blew a series to an inferior Montreal team after leading 3-1.
3. Tried to make a flake his backup goalie (Sparks) overburdening Andersen for two straight seasons, maybe breaking him down.
4. Rushed to extend Matthews and Marner with above market deals hamstringing the team with its cap long before the pandemic cap made it worse.
5. Stubbornly denied the value of young more rugged talents over softer talents. Tried to slam the barn doors shut with expensive fill in moves to harden the team. Too little too late.

 

[Brown Dog]

IMO it's not about who deserves to take the fall for this failure. Does Shanahan deserve to be fired? Or Dubas? Or Keefe?

Maybe, and it would no doubt be cathartic as a fan to see blood on the floor. But is it best for the franchise?

It's not easy to bring in a whole new regime and start from scratch with brand new voices, new philosophies. It takes time for changes like that to bear fruit. I think of all the inept NFL franchises that change coaches every 2 years and wonder why that lack of continuity never leads to better outcomes.

 

[Torontonian]

I don't believe much is going to change like many think here, Perhaps a new supporting cast for the main group, finding some better players support casting players such as Jumbo Joe and the Wayne train and finding a solid 3rd line winger and being able to slide Mikahev down to the 4th line (good pker, and can sustain pressure but cant put the puck in the net.)

The problem with how the Leafs lost is the most difficult one, there best players didn't show up when it mattered most. It would have been easier if the supporting cast around them stunk but that wasn't the case. Difficult to trade the Rocket Richard winner and someone that finished the year in 4th in scoring with 67 points. Hard to get full value on Marner when every GM will try to get him at a low cost.

Perhaps a coaching change would be the "biggest" change they could make, but I doubt thats going to happen.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Marner won't be traded so I say start him with JT next year. Matthews and Marner are cute in the regular season, but come playoff time you have to get Marner away from tough competition. He's too whimsical and can't play playoff hockey well enough. The jury is still out on whether Dubas makes the easy "shakeup" trade by trading Nylander but if he doesn't you start Nylander with Matthews. I'll take 70+ points from Nylander on the first line and this playoff performance over 100 points from Marner and whatever we just saw. Tell Keefe to man up and actually make the hard decisions as a coach instead of being the number 1 fanboy of the Mitch and Auston show.

 

[mydnyte]

next year, i hope they learn that you dont build lines like its a video game

grinder - sniper - playmaker

we have 2 3rds of 2 lines, and each one needs an offensive player
line one needs a goal scoring threat, and line 2 could use some size with skill.
go hard after Saad (2nd line) and let Robertson (top line) fill those 2 spots
the reason i have Robertson on the top line is he can shoot the darn puck, and isnt afraid to do it, defensively Matthews and Marner could cover for him.
Saad may look better on the top line, but then the 2nd would have 3 primary shooters

then on the 3rd Hyman - Kerfoot - Mik as a solid shutdown line ...much more rounded and harder to beat even if you lost a JT, because you cant focus only on Matthews as a scoring threat, because Robertson has offensive skills (maybe).

Robertson on the top line wouldnt be my first pick, but, $$$ fits

 

[gamer1035]

IMO it's not about who deserves to take the fall for this failure. Does Shanahan deserve to be fired? Or Dubas? Or Keefe?

Maybe, and it would no doubt be cathartic as a fan to see blood on the floor. But is it best for the franchise?

It's not easy to bring in a whole new regime and start from scratch with brand new voices, new philosophies. It takes time for changes like that to bear fruit. I think of all the inept NFL franchises that change coaches every 2 years and wonder why that lack of continuity never leads to better outcomes.

Yeah you are right. We should've kept Lou and Babcock (proven winners) instead of replacing them with inexperienced idiots. I'm glad dubas is learning as he goes, but it cost us this core's value. Dubas is also too much of a nice guy to negotiate, I don't think he has a future in gm'ing because of it, no matter how much mistakes he makes to learn from here.

 

[Stonehands1990]

You can pretend they have leverage. How many times has a team given up an elite player for four firsts. No team is going to give up four high firsts. If anything they will be middle to late firsts and leaf fans would’ve lost their minds if they happened.

Do you understand how RFA contracts work or not? If another team had signed Marner to an OFFER SHEET for his AAV the compensation would have been FOUR FIRST ROUND PICKS. Dubas had leverage, you use it to negotiate

4 1sts are still 4 decently high caliber picks as opposed to one greedy idiot of a player

 

[DuklaNation]

This team played soft. Anyone should be able to see that. I've seen more desire in pick up games.

 

[Goomba]

A

According to the few BJ fans on the main boards who’ve been in active in the thread, it really isn’t “loopy land” and some e dm suggest a + from them would be in order if for no other reason than to balance the cap out. jones + jennet for marner + dermott isn’t loopy land

Why exactly is Columbus signing and trading Seth Jones, their most noteworthy player who plays hard every game, for Mitch Marner who barely shows up in the playoffs?

the wrong side is adding, idrc what some random Blue Jacket fans say

 

[Brown Dog]

Why exactly is Columbus signing and trading Seth Jones, their most noteworthy player who plays hard every game, for Mitch Marner who barely shows up in the playoffs?

the wrong side is adding, idrc what some random Blue Jacket fans say

Mitch is 24 and was top 5 in league scoring. His contract is hefty, but it's not like he's not highly productive (in the regular season, at least). I'm sure there are teams that would be willing to trade for him.

The other thing working in our favour in a Marner trade is that we are probably looking to acquire multiple assets of lesser individual value, so Marner would undoubtedly be the "best" piece in the trade.

 

[Smif]

What grit did Simmonds bring? One guy he brought in had grit and it was Bogosian and everyone was pretty pleased with him.

The grit we needed is guys going hard to the net, who win battles and make players second guess themselves in tight. Which Leaf did that?

The bottom 6 had what grit to it? Engvall, Mikheyev, Simmonds, Thornton, Kerfoot, Spezza? You call that grit? I'll give Kerfoot and Spezza a pass but as much as Marner and Matthews let us down, those 4 guys were TERRIBLE.

Our bottom 6 completely lost all their identity. At one point in the season we had a nice, gritty, hard hat type of 3rd line but with Engvall and Mik it was literally just a filler line.

 

[DuklaNation]

Mikheyev has played 171 total playoff minutes. Zero points. Zero! Why is this guy there. Total liability.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Marner won't be traded so I say start him with JT next year. Matthews and Marner are cute in the regular season, but come playoff time you have to get Marner away from tough competition. He's too whimsical and can't play playoff hockey well enough. The jury is still out on whether Dubas makes the easy "shakeup" trade by trading Nylander but if he doesn't you start Nylander with Matthews. I'll take 70+ points from Nylander on the first line and this playoff performance over 100 points from Marner and whatever we just saw. Tell Keefe to man up and actually make the hard decisions as a coach instead of being the number 1 fanboy of the Mitch and Auston show.

Keefe is an idiot. Too dumb to get his stars away from matchups

 

[Superstar]

Keefe is an idiot. Too dumb to get his stars away from matchups

Even Babcock was smart enough to play Marner lower in the line-up to generate offense.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Even Babcock was smart enough to play Marner lower in the line-up to generate offense.

Exactly. Boston only had 1 Chara and he can’t stop both if you break them up