What changes next year?

[DueDiligence]

We have Sandin, Robertson, Amirov. All are young but showing signs of being more than just NHL players. To be able to draft like that is indeed lights out.

Sorry you are delusional. That drafting is barely adequate.

 

[TMLeafer]

Vets is a good idea but it needs to be guys that have specialized roles and have done it for years. Not former allstar players being forced into a 4th line energy guy role. Obviously easier said than done when you're looking for players at league minimum.

 

[Jozay]

They could fire Dubas too. I dont really care. He's got no results, I dont see any reason to be particularly attached to the guy.

 

[mikemar1]

Another playoff first round loss for Matthews. He must be getting fed up with it all. Does he want out as his skills are being wasted in Toronto?

Like McDavid?

 

[Puckstuff]

First this team went for soft scoring and they gotten beaten down by Boston and Washington
Then they went out and got guys who are a bit tougher but their washed and can't score
They need some big guys in their prime who can score like Hertl and Tkachcuk

 

[Peiskos]

Didnt the raptors finish like last place?

No, the Raptors were a consistent 50+ win team for 5 consecutive seasons and were a legitimate elite NBA team from 2014-2020, going to 2 ECF and winning a championship. The Raptors have become synonymous with a world class organization, this year can't really be used as anything, they weren't even in Toronto.

 

[meefer]

On Dec. 29, 2020, I posted this. "Perhaps we could cool the jets? Keefe hasn't had a full year at the helm and yet discussions of firing him billow up like smoke round a campfire. Like in all the Dubas threads, might we be better served by asking if things are improving instead of debating what might happen if things don't improve? We'd all sleep better is my take. So far, I like what I've seen with Keefe. I like what I've seen with Dubas. I think the team is further ahead than when under the control by Lou and Mike. Posters harp on our cap structure, how we're thin, our depth not being great. I'll suggest that a roster that includes: Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, Muzzin, and Brodie, needs to be critiqued from within the dressing room, not management or coaching. Whether you like management and coaching or not, I don't think you can argue that Toronto has done a good job of giving the players a solid chance to succeed. Top flight training facilities, medical facilities, skill development programs, etc. are in place. On ice talent is in place. Experience and leadership on the ice is in place. Competition for playing time is in place. We have a player's coach who shows flexibility, a special teams coach, a highly praised skills/players coach, and a former Jack Adams winner to offer ideas and balance...certainly, this has to be considered at least adequate by NHL standards, and quite possibly better than some appreciate. My point: it's on the players! This is a talented team. Perform as such."

Today:

* I don't know what happened to the coaching, it wasn't good. But,

* This one is on the players. It is a talented team. I'll stick to my opinion that a team with the best players should win a series. We didn't because the players did not live up to the standards required. Where that takes us, I have no idea. I know I'll take grief for this, but I think Dubas is good at evaluating talent, I hope his ability to gauge 'heart' is equal to the task at hand. Emotionally, I'm all for throwing this group into the trash bin, but that isn't going to help. If Dubas determines that the team should remain basically the same for next year, he has the biggest set of nads on the planet, or is the dumbest son of a gun. If he decides he needs to move some players to acquire what is required, I wish him well. I wouldn't want the job.

* Keefe and company could/should be gone. What happens with the players is of more importance to me, because I just don't understand why this group of players lost to the Habs. I just don't.

 

[Brown Dog]

I would allow Dubas the opportunity to retool the roster.

But his plan better be more than just swapping out the current 4th line veterans for new ones. Dubas went all-in on a roster that failed miserably. The clock is ticking on him.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Keep Dubas. As long as the slobbering of him stops.

Keefe I’m indifferent to. They can get rid of him and I wouldn’t care. There are quality coaches out there.

Thanks for your services Freddy. All the best.

Keep Campbell, but find a 1A.

Trade Marner. Something ballsy needs to be done.

Either re-sign Rielly or move him before next season. I like him and would like him re-signed, and his play likely keeps any raise to a minimum.

Bringing Spezza back is a must. The guy gave it his all.

Happy retirement Jumbo Joe. Next stop, the Hockey Hall of Fame.

 

[Boxscore]

Nylander for Severson? With adds needed

I wouldn't touch that. Severson is not close to Nylander in value -- there would be too much sweetener needed which would turn this into a "pile it on deal" where the Leafs get a few pieces. We need to swap one of the Big 4 for a similar D...

Marner for Jones (with an extension).

Nylander, Amirov and Liljegren for Jones (with an extension) and a pick.

Marner for Dahlin.

Marner for Konecny, Sanheim and a 1st.

Nylander and Dermott for Dougie Hamilton (extended).

Marner and Liljegren for Gaudreau and Hanifin.

Something along those lines...

 

[blue stick]

Joe still on PP1 next year?

 

[justashadowof]

A GM who hasn't won a playoff series doesn't usually get to fire a second coach. A GM who forced himself to peel off several young support talents in the off season and spend heavy futures on reinforcements for a long playoff run doesn't usually survive 24 hours after losing to a weak opponent in the first round.

 

[CincoHolio]

f*** it. I'm down. Matthews will get the largest return in nhl history. Use the space to sign Jones + some more balance. We all know Matthews wont wanna stay with his best friend Mitch getting dumped.

Are they really best friends though? I honestly don't get that vibe. I do agree however that this very well may be the die that sets in motion the turnover of this core. Trade Mitch, and I can see the path where Auston would bolt when his current contract is up. I don't think Auston loooves playing for the Leafs and would be the kind of guy who'd welcome a different scene. Just one man's poorly informed opinion but nevertheless, there's a case to be made for such a scenario.

 

[HolyCrap]

Leafs choking and other teams trolls allowed to post on our forum is getting old. Thank god it’s fishing season.

 

[HolyCrap]

Are they really best friends though? I honestly don't get that vibe. I do agree however that this very well may be the die that sets in motion the turnover of this core. Trade Mitch, and I can see the path where Auston would bolt when his current contract is up. I don't think Auston loooves playing for the Leafs and would be the kind of guy who'd welcome a different scene. Just one man's poorly informed opinion but nevertheless, there's a case to be made for such a scenario.

I agree with you. Mathews is my favourite player but I don’t see him re signing here. If the return is a better balance I’d be game.

 

[TheBigThree]

Losing lou and babcock killed this team. Axtually losing lou. Dubas f***ed up the marner contract completely. Folded like an envelope when pressure hit. Babcock is an asshole but an asshole is someone you need to motivate bums like marner. He's too entitled and all about money. I don't believe anything marner has said, he single handedly screwed our team with his demands and cap hit. He's so useless in the post season making $17 million come July 1st. What a shit show. Marner has to be traded

 

[Morlu]

Losing lou and babcock killed this team. Axtually losing lou. Dubas f***ed up the marner contract completely. Folded like an envelope when pressure hit. Babcock is an asshole but an asshole is someone you need to motivate bums like marner. He's too entitled and all about money. I don't believe anything marner has said, he single handedly screwed our team with his demands and cap hit. He's so useless in the post season making $17 million come July 1st. What a shit show. Marner has to be traded

Dubas made this team better this year. This is on the players but he could be fired. I honestly don’t care what happens to the management but Marner has to go. Why would anyone watch the regular season next year? This core will 100% choke in the playoffs.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

It's the core.

They've pretty much changed everyone around them. I would say goodbye to Rielly + Marner at this point. They need a proper shakeup or this is going to become a routine.

I can't blame Dubas for this. Marner played like a 1M player. That's unacceptable for so many playoff series.

 

[ottomaddox]

Changes need to start at the top I suppose.

Shanny decided go with an inexperienced GM and Coach to run this team.

It was the wrong decision.

 

[Super Mega]

My guess is none of those things, Dubas and Shanny are on thin ice now for sure but they are here next year.

...a big trade from the core? Are most essentially just trading Marner? I cant see Dubas doing that.

 

[ponder]

I trust Dubas tbh. I also think staying the course is play, even though it's really hard to say that right now. Look at the Lightning for reference to that.

Not really comparable. The first year the Lightning’s young core (Stamkos, Hedman, etc.) made the playoffs was 2010/11. Their first 5 years:

• 2010/11 - made it to the Conference Finals
• 2011/12 - didn’t make the playoffs
• 2012/13 - didn’t make the playoffs
• 2013/14 - first round loss
• 2014/15 - made it to the Stanley Cup Finals

So 5 playoff series won, 2 deep runs.

Compared to the Leafs first 5 years from their young core (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, etc.) first making the playoffs:

• 2016/17 - first round loss
• 2017/18 - first round loss
  
• 2018/19 - first round loss
  
• 2019/20 - play-in loss
  
• 2020/21 - first round loss

Haven’t won a single playoff series, despite absolute gimme matchups these last 2 years due to COVID weirdness. This core has shown that they definitely, without a doubt do not have what it takes to win in the playoffs. Tear it down IMO.

 

[Garthinater]

Its amazing how attached some "leaf fans" are to a proven failure of a gm.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Its amazing how attached some "leaf fans" are to a proven failure of a gm.

It's hard to blame him.

Almost everyone thought this team was good enough to beat the Canadiens. Fans, analysts, everyone. What the players did on the ice is disgraceful.

This is all on the players + coaching staff.

 

[Lightsol]

Its amazing how attached some "leaf fans" are to a proven failure of a gm.

I'm more afraid right now that they fire Dubas, and the next GM decides to go with the veteran strategy we've seen in Toronto way too often going back to the 80's...

I'm not really looking forward to another "team that will dominate the playoffs" that can't MAKE the playoffs...

 

[nuck]

I think Shanny needs to fire Dubas if the first things out of the guys mouth aren't I think we need a new coach and I think we need to move a core piece. I would fire Dubas as well myself because the coach and ultra-top heavy roster are his making but the mishandling of big contracts is sunk money and Dubas has shown the ability to evolve.