What can we do to get Keefe fired.

[RunItBackAgain]

3 on 3 is a crap shoot with little structure. You give yourself the best chance to win with the best offensive players. Hilarious and bizarre things can happen like the stat you referenced, it doesn't mean you start David Kampf in over time.

Any other elite teams around the league doing this too or no?

He did what he thought was right for how poorly our stars were performing in OT last season. He was right and Kampf won us games by taking the initial shift. It got us out of that rut we were in.

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said but his adjustment worked plain and simple. Now Kampf doesn’t work anymore and he adjusted again and isn’t starting him. Props where it’s due.

 

[notDatsyuk]

So Mathews has 9 OT goals, Marner has 4, JT has 6 and surprise surprise William leads the way with 10 ( 6in the last 3 seasons and there is still 50 games to go) JT doesn’t seem out of whack since he was never really a goal scorer even before he came here. But my goodness William outperforming Mathews in OT goals was surprising.

JT can score, especially when he has someone like Willy outskating everyone and setting him up. Coming on mid shift when we have possession is ok, but he's not fast enough to play D when the other team has the puck.

You're more likely to start with the puck if JT wins the draw, but in more trouble if he loses. If Kampf wins, he goes off for offence, but if he loses, we have a much better chance of getting the puck back with him.

I'm not really surprised that Willy has more goals, because he can create scoring chances and finish them, all by himself, better than anyone else on the team. Mitch can set up but doesn't finish as well, while Matty and JT finish, but don't create as well.

 

[notDatsyuk]

This still goes into the random category even if Keefe never uses Kampf again.

Look at our roster. What part of our roster screams "Give Kampf a specialized 3 on 3 audition". No matter how you slice it, it supports the fact that Keefe might still be prone to doing weird things like putting Nylander on PP2 in a 20D chess type move or playing Mik/Engvall over Matthews/Marner for 50% of a period.

I didn't like the Willy on 2PP move, but the second unit was suddenly moving the puck better than the top unit (although not necessarily scoring more).

We're doing well this year with Willy QBing the PP.

 

[Gallagbi]

You don't win 3 on 3 OT by being defensive.

It's stupid coaching dude.

Meh, it's got logic behind it. You're trying to avoid burning your 60 goal scorer on a lost draw when they were often losing the very first shift unable to regain possession and being kept on the ice too long. Matthews can then hop on with another strong winger in Nylander with possession instead.

Not what I'd do, but far from horrible logic. People just want to cry about everything here.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Any other elite teams around the league doing this too or no?

How many other teams have their best faceoff man also their slowest skater and worst defensively?

 

[notbias]

That would be a win-win for most no?

Either Keefe is fired, or the Leafs have made it into the 3rd round

It is a win if they lose only if you cheer against the team, which I think a lot of people here do.

You don't win 3 on 3 OT by being defensive.

It's stupid coaching dude.

Weren't we losing every OT then we started throwing out Kampf and it worked?

 

[conFABulator]

There are a lot of people that seem to not like the Kampf starting OT plan, but not a lot of reasoning behind it. People seem to be ignoring the fact that we have one of the best OT point percentages in the league and that we were awful in OT before this change was made to our approach.

 

[Leafshater67]

Why does Keefe have the third highest winning percentage in history?

Was he handed a great team or is he a good coach? One shows support of Dubas and Shanny and the other supports Keefe. Which side is everyone on?

Handed a good team. Look at their record in the playoffs though - that’s the issue. They keep doing the same thing every year and hoping for different results.

 

[Zybalto]

Handed a good team. Look at their record in the playoffs though - that’s the issue. They keep doing the same thing every year and hoping for different results.

Is the problem Keefe or is the problem they have run with the wrong goaltending though ?(Campbell and Samsonov the last 3 seasons)

Would any good team have gone on good runs with those guys in net?

Considering one guy has washed out of the NHL completely and the other just lost his job to a 3rd stringer no one even wanted on waivers, those would be good questions to ask....or even:

Was Keefe handed a good team or have sub standard goalies been handed a good team and been exposed in the playoffs. Always seems to be backbreaking weak goals let in for the big games and I don't think Keefe has much to do with that.

Interested to see what the Leafs do with rumors swirling about them going hard in the goalie market.

 

[Leafshater67]

Is the problem Keefe or is the problem they have run with the wrong goaltending though ?(Campbell and Samsonov the last 3 seasons)

Would any good team have gone on good runs with those guys in net?

Considering one guy has washed out of the NHL completely and the other just lost his job to a 3rd stringer no one even wanted on waivers, those would be good questions to ask....or even:

Was Keefe handed a good team or have sub standard goalies been handed a good team and been exposed in the playoffs. Always seems to be backbreaking weak goals let in for the big games and I don't think Keefe has much to do with that.

Interested to see what the Leafs do with rumors swirling about them going hard in the goalie market.

Goaltending was not the issue last year and generally, hasn’t been at all. All the top guys disappear in the playoffs and nobody scores. The physicality picking up in the playoffs really scares a lot of these guys and there’s an obvious lack of leadership in the room.

Don’t rewrite the narrative - Campbell was good for the leafs as was Andersen before him. Woll was good in relief last year too. It’s not a goaltending issue.

 

[Zybalto]

Goaltending was not the issue last year and generally, hasn’t been at all. All the top guys disappear in the playoffs and nobody scores. The physicality picking up in the playoffs really scares a lot of these guys and there’s an obvious lack of leadership in the room.

Don’t rewrite the narrative - Campbell was good for the leafs as was Andersen before him. Woll was good in relief last year too. It’s not a goaltending issue.

Andersens whole history has been of a playoff choker who gives up bad goals in big games for every team he's ever played for.

Campbell has one of the worst high danger save% in the playoffs during his time with the Leafs behind one of the best defensive playoff teams over his time. As un clutch as a goalie gets.

The fact big guns failed to convert many of their chances against the Price, Vasys and Bob's of the league doesn't take away from the fact those goalies were giving the Leafs nothing while ours were giving up short side softies or floaters through the five whole in deciding games as well.

I don't think any of the goalies we have had would have done a thing on any other team either. If Campbell was on Tampa instead of Vasy, do they make 3 finals in a row? Or do they not even win a round? (And then it's a coaching issue right?) Tampa won all its elimination games with 2-1 and 1-0 games left and right. Was it Vasy or great coaching?

 

[Nineteen67]

Handed a good team. Look at their record in the playoffs though - that’s the issue. They keep doing the same thing every year and hoping for different results.

To date Matthews and Marner haven’t been able to get it done when teams are focussed on taking care of the puck, paying attention to details and playing team defense.
They havent adjusted their games enough to overcome that, nor has management surrounded them with enough talent throughout the lineup, particularly on D and in goal.

 

[Nineteen67]

Andersens whole history has been of a playoff choker who gives up bad goals in big games for every team he's ever played for.

Campbell has one of the worst high danger save% in the playoffs during his time with the Leafs behind one of the best defensive playoff teams over his time. As un clutch as a goalie gets.

The fact big guns failed to convert many of their chances against the Price, Vasys and Bob's of the league doesn't take away from the fact those goalies were giving the Leafs nothing while ours were giving up short side softies or floaters through the five whole in deciding games as well.

I don't think any of the goalies we have had would have done a thing on any other team either. If Campbell was on Tampa instead of Vasy, do they make 3 finals in a row? Or do they not even win a round? (And then it's a coaching issue right?) Tampa won all its elimination games with 2-1 and 1-0 games left and right. Was it Vasy or great coaching?

Other than last year, the Leafs’ goalies have given up a bad goal in every potential series clinching game.

 

[colchar]

We got rid of a coach years ago by fan outrage, including picketing outside the arena.

Huh?

It would only take 3 or 4 guys with signs saying "fire Keefe".

Yeah, because its just that simple.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Then they brought Dubas back.

No good replacements.

The GM wants their job a long time.

The clock starts ticking when the GM hires “their” coach.

 

[Evilhomer]

Keefe will very likely outlast both Montgomery and Cooper. Maybe even Maurice, although I imagine Florida will give him a couple more years.

 

[Ciao]

Neither, Dubas and Keefe both inherited this stupidity of wealth and both have failed to capture glory with it.

Shanahans plan to suck ass and draft worked, but after that we should’ve fired him and found a whole team of people who have a history of building a winner. It’s easy to lose and draft high.

The list of coaches and GMs that have won Stanley Cups with more than one franchise is pretty short.

The last coach to do that was Scotty Bowman, and before that probably Dick Irvin and Tommy Gorman. Maybe Lester Patrick, too, but that would go back to pre-NHL days.

The list of GMs is a even shorter. AFAIK, Tommy Gorman in the 1930's with the the Chicago Blackhawks and the Montreal Maroons is about it.

Even short of winning a Stanley Cup, most of the recent Cup-winning coaches and GMs have never had a history of building a winner with another franchise before their first Stanley Cup win. An exception would be Bruce Cassidy, who had success with Boston without winning a Cup before he won this year with Vegas. Other than that, I don't think you'll find a Cup-winning coach or GM with substantial success with a previous franchise until you go back to Scotty Bowman.

I don't think that hiring hockey executives for their past successes with previous franchises works any better than the same thing works for players. It doesn't work well at all.

There's no percentage in hiring yesterday's man. Just ask Lou Lamoriello and Ken Holland how well things have gone since the good old days in New Jersey and Detroit.

 

[HockeyVirus]

This fanbase makes me laugh. Keefe is a great coach but you'd think he was awful. This fanbase has no idea what they have had the last several years. I suspect once Tre ruins the Leafs and hires another dinosaur who sucks ass maybe some will admit they were wrong.

 

[IPS]

This fanbase makes me laugh. Keefe is a great coach but you'd think he was awful. This fanbase has no idea what they have had the last several years. I suspect once Tre ruins the Leafs and hires another dinosaur who sucks ass maybe some will admit they were wrong.

Yeah you're really hoping for that aren't you.

 

[Zonk]

The list of coaches and GMs that have won Stanley Cups with more than one franchise is pretty short.

The last coach to do that was Scotty Bowman, and before that probably Dick Irvin and Tommy Gorman. Maybe Lester Patrick, too, but that would go back to pre-NHL days.

The list of GMs is a even shorter. AFAIK, Tommy Gorman in the 1930's with the the Chicago Blackhawks and the Montreal Maroons is about it.

Even short of winning a Stanley Cup, most of the recent Cup-winning coaches and GMs have never had a history of building a winner with another franchise before their first Stanley Cup win. An exception would be Bruce Cassidy, who had success with Boston without winning a Cup before he won this year with Vegas. Other than that, I don't think you'll find a Cup-winning coach or GM with substantial success with a previous franchise until you go back to Scotty Bowman.

I don't think that hiring hockey executives for their past successes with previous franchises works any better than the same thing works for players. It doesn't work well at all.

There's no percentage in hiring yesterday's man. Just ask Lou Lamoriello and Ken Holland how well things have gone since the good old days in New Jersey and Detroit.

Thank you for this very insightful post. I learned something that I did not know and would not have expected. Much appreciated.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

The list of coaches and GMs that have won Stanley Cups with more than one franchise is pretty short.

The last coach to do that was Scotty Bowman, and before that probably Dick Irvin and Tommy Gorman. Maybe Lester Patrick, too, but that would go back to pre-NHL days.

The list of GMs is a even shorter. AFAIK, Tommy Gorman in the 1930's with the the Chicago Blackhawks and the Montreal Maroons is about it.

Even short of winning a Stanley Cup, most of the recent Cup-winning coaches and GMs have never had a history of building a winner with another franchise before their first Stanley Cup win. An exception would be Bruce Cassidy, who had success with Boston without winning a Cup before he won this year with Vegas. Other than that, I don't think you'll find a Cup-winning coach or GM with substantial success with a previous franchise until you go back to Scotty Bowman.

I don't think that hiring hockey executives for their past successes with previous franchises works any better than the same thing works for players. It doesn't work well at all.

There's no percentage in hiring yesterday's man. Just ask Lou Lamoriello and Ken Holland how well things have gone since the good old days in New Jersey and Detroit.

Well said and good points. I guess I was asking too much but it just didn’t make sense to me at the time that we hired a rookie President who hired a rookie GM who hired a rookie head coach.

At least we have a chance to win every year… I will be grateful for that.

 

[egd27]

This fanbase makes me laugh. Keefe is a great coach but you'd think he was awful. This fanbase has no idea what they have had the last several years. I suspect once Tre ruins the Leafs and hires another dinosaur who sucks ass maybe some will admit they were wrong.

What do you think makes him a great coach?

 

[Ciao]

Thank you for this very insightful post. I learned something that I did not know and would not have expected. Much appreciated.

Well said and good points. I guess I was asking too much but it just didn’t make sense to me at the time that we hired a rookie President who hired a rookie GM who hired a rookie head coach.

At least we have a chance to win every year… I will be grateful for that.

Thank you both.

I wasn't expecting a pat on the back, but i sure do appreciate it

Merry Christmas one and all, and Go Leafs Go!

 

[BallardEra]

No good replacements.

The GM wants their job a long time.

The clock starts ticking when the GM hires “their” coach.

Carberry would have been an interesting choice if the Leafs went hard after him and if he wasn't set on going to the Caps.

 

[kevsh]

This fanbase makes me laugh. Keefe is a great coach but you'd think he was awful. This fanbase has no idea what they have had the last several years. I suspect once Tre ruins the Leafs and hires another dinosaur who sucks ass maybe some will admit they were wrong.

You wonder why Leafs fans aren't happy with Keefe?

He has a .433 winning percentage in the playoffs, having led this team to one series win in 5 years.

Watching this team give up a 3-1 series lead to the Habs, a 3-2 lead to the Bolts, get shut out twice by a Columbus team that should have beaten then, not looking particularly good last year finally win a round only to get completely dominated vs. the Panthers.

That's why. Add to that a fan base that's been waiting over 50 years for a Cup and yes, there's a little impatience in the air too.

I do agree though if Treliving fires Keefe it's not a given the replacement will have any better luck with this team as its constructed - he has to get the exact right coach, fix the blue line and get a starting goalie first if Woll doesn't work out - but after all this failure there has to be accountability. Shanny's still here, Dubas would be if he hadn't left for a promotion in Pittsburgh and Keefe's still behind the bench.