What can we do to get Keefe fired.

[Hoglund4MvP]

Should can him before he ruins another prospect.

Robertson has been horrible outside of when he gets carried by Domi for some goals here and there. Robertson is on my list as asset to acquire defence.

 

[Havoc]

Nylander on PP2 so we can put Thornton and Simmonds on PP1 to lose in round 1, using the 3rd line as the 1st line to start the first 10 minutes of a playoff game against Tampa (the series we lost), throwing the game away within the first 10 minutes has made me unable to ever warm up to Keefe again.

This Kampf to start OT thing has me on edge that he'll continue the random wtf moves that costs us games. Kampf is 49% on draws on the year. What's the obsession about? Tavares is 62%

 

[Nineteen67]

So what you said above was incorrect.



This is all speculation at best.

You don't know how much he used analytics so it's weird to say they didn't work.

Observation. Said he built an an analytics dept so one would logically conclude he was using the department. People close to the organisation reported he was into analytics

Maybe you’re right, and he was more in over his head than we all thought.

All we have to go on are the results of his failed tenor

 

[Darth Menace]

Is that how Trump got elected?

And Trudeau! Sometimes you might not get something better if you change though (Biden), but it is worth a risk of not doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Keefe should have been gone with Dubas but for some reason the Leafs are the definition of insanity

 

[conFABulator]

Neither, Dubas and Keefe both inherited this stupidity of wealth and both have failed to capture glory with it.

Shanahans plan to suck ass and draft worked, but after that we should’ve fired him and found a whole team of people who have a history of building a winner. It’s easy to lose and draft high.

I see, so you are saying Burke and Lou are the reasons we have been one of the best teams the NHL the past seven or eight years? That's a unique perspective.

Look at who drafted around us when we were bottoming out. Why have we been the best of this lot?

He was given a team with Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly, Hyman...not many coaches can say that. New coaches are typically coming into a garbage situation with a garbage roster.

I guess it shows support of Shanahan for successfully tanking and support of Dubas for signing Tavares.

That's true.

I think that Keefe has been very good, not great and he has done some learning on the job in the playoffs. I would be Ok with upgrading the position but I am not sure who was better and available. I am in favour of dumping him due to lack of results.

 

[conFABulator]

Take this potentially with some grains of salt due to Keefe not having coached in the era of tie games. Number of games coached by each respective coach on the list should also merit some consideration. As for your question, I'd say that both sides (Keefe and Shanahan/Dubas) deserve credit (for making the playoffs, finally winning that elusive round) and blame (for the team not advancing further more often than they have thus far).

Those are all solid points. I am not saying he is the third best coach in history, I am saying that his result would not warrant him being dumped after a loss in December while we are currently and yet again a top team in the standings.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I see, so you are saying Burke and Lou are the reasons we have been one of the best teams the NHL the past seven or eight years? That's a unique perspective.

Look at who drafted around us when we were bottoming out. Why have we been the best of this lot?


That's true.

I think that Keefe has been very good, not great and he has done some learning on the job in the playoffs. I would be Ok with upgrading the position but I am not sure who was better and available. I am in favour of dumping him due to lack of results.

Dubas drafted none of the core what are you on about? I gave shanahan credit where it was due, he picked the consensus #1 at #1 and then followed it up by hiring a rookie GM and a rookie coach. Genius.

 

[conFABulator]

Dubas drafted none of the core what are you on about? I gave shanahan credit where it was due, he picked the consensus #1 at #1 and then followed it up by hiring a rookie GM and a rookie coach. Genius.

On about? I am not getting into the Dubas debate because I am a fan of the team without an agenda.

How come every other team that picked around us for years and drafted consensus number one picks hasn't won a cup or had the regular season success we have?

We are a well run team and organization. We are good at keeping talent, attracting talent, and drafting and developing talent.

This is systemic and organizational. Yes. Shanny. And then the guys Shanny has brought in like Lou, Dubas, and Keefe.

...back to the original point. I don't think Keefe should be dumped. I would be ok with him being upgraded. I don't believe a lot of upgrades have been available and on the market.

 

[conFABulator]

Nylander on PP2 so we can put Thornton and Simmonds on PP1 to lose in round 1, using the 3rd line as the 1st line to start the first 10 minutes of a playoff game against Tampa (the series we lost), throwing the game away within the first 10 minutes has made me unable to ever warm up to Keefe again.

This Kampf to start OT thing has me on edge that he'll continue the random wtf moves that costs us games. Kampf is 49% on draws on the year. What's the obsession about? Tavares is 62%

The problem is if JT loses the draw in OT, we lose. Look into his OT stats for GF/GA and Scoring Chance For and Against. It's actually surprising how caved in we get with Tavares on the ice in OT.

 

[Confucius]

The problem is if JT loses the draw in OT, we lose. Look into his OT stats for GF/GA and Scoring Chance For and Against. It's actually surprising how caved in we get with Tavares on the ice in OT.

So Mathews has 9 OT goals, Marner has 4, JT has 6 and surprise surprise William leads the way with 10 ( 6in the last 3 seasons and there is still 50 games to go) JT doesn’t seem out of whack since he was never really a goal scorer even before he came here. But my goodness William outperforming Mathews in OT goals was surprising.

 

[Evilhomer]

Keefe is almost certainly going to outlast Montgomery in Boston and Cooper in Tampa, both of which I think will be let go after this season.

 

[therealkoho]

I'd like to wish the coach and his family a very merry Christmas.

 

[Racer88]

I'd like to wish the coach and his family a very merry Christmas.

yup and all the success on his new team

 

[Havoc]

The problem is if JT loses the draw in OT, we lose. Look into his OT stats for GF/GA and Scoring Chance For and Against. It's actually surprising how caved in we get with Tavares on the ice in OT.

The point was how random of a decision it is.

If the goal is to use a faceoff specialist to win the draw and then get off....then why not use an actual faceoff specialist in Tavares who can also win you the game if he wins the draw.

You don't need to dig deep into stats. There is no universe in which Kampf is a better OT play than Tavares.

3 on 3 is so garbage. Once you lose the draw, it takes zero skill from the opposition to eat 1-2 minutes of the clock regardless who you have out.


Matthews is also a better option to start over Kampf. In fact, based on how 3 on 3 is played, even Domi is a better start than Kampf. I'm sure others can push Kampf even further down the depth chart, but I think my point is clear.


It's not so much this decision I hate, at the end of the day 3 on 3 won't exist in Spring. It's the fact that Keefe has a track record of these wtf moves that can prove costly if he does it at the wrong time.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

The point was how random of a decision it is.

If the goal is to use a faceoff specialist to win the draw and then get off....then why not use an actual faceoff specialist in Tavares who can also win you the game if he wins the draw.

You don't need to dig deep into stats. There is no universe in which Kampf is a better OT play than Tavares.

3 on 3 is so garbage. Once you lose the draw, it takes zero skill from the opposition to eat 1-2 minutes of the clock regardless who you have out.


Matthews is also a better option to start over Kampf. In fact, based on how 3 on 3 is played, even Domi is a better start than Kampf. I'm sure others can push Kampf even further down the depth chart, but I think my point is clear.


It's not so much this decision I hate, at the end of the day 3 on 3 won't exist in Spring. It's the fact that Keefe has a track record of these wtf moves that can prove costly if he does it at the wrong time.

Keefe doesn't do it much more.

He gave Kampf a chance to prove he can be relied on for this and kampf blew it.

 

[Havoc]

Keefe doesn't do it much more.

He gave Kampf a chance to prove he can be relied on for this and kampf blew it.

This still goes into the random category even if Keefe never uses Kampf again.

Look at our roster. What part of our roster screams "Give Kampf a specialized 3 on 3 audition". No matter how you slice it, it supports the fact that Keefe might still be prone to doing weird things like putting Nylander on PP2 in a 20D chess type move or playing Mik/Engvall over Matthews/Marner for 50% of a period.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

This still goes into the random category even if Keefe never uses Kampf again.

Look at our roster. What part of our roster screams "Give Kampf a specialized 3 on 3 audition". No matter how you slice it, it supports the fact that Keefe might still be prone to doing weird things like putting Nylander on PP2 in a 20D chess type move or playing Mik/Engvall over Matthews/Marner for 50% of a period.

I do get depressed when I remember Thornton against the Habs

 

[conFABulator]

The point was how random of a decision it is.

If the goal is to use a faceoff specialist to win the draw and then get off....then why not use an actual faceoff specialist in Tavares who can also win you the game if he wins the draw.

You don't need to dig deep into stats. There is no universe in which Kampf is a better OT play than Tavares.

3 on 3 is so garbage. Once you lose the draw, it takes zero skill from the opposition to eat 1-2 minutes of the clock regardless who you have out.


Matthews is also a better option to start over Kampf. In fact, based on how 3 on 3 is played, even Domi is a better start than Kampf. I'm sure others can push Kampf even further down the depth chart, but I think my point is clear.


It's not so much this decision I hate, at the end of the day 3 on 3 won't exist in Spring. It's the fact that Keefe has a track record of these wtf moves that can prove costly if he does it at the wrong time.

I am not sure it is a WTF move. I don't think Kampf is out there only to win a draw, his role is to NOT be Matthews if we do lose the draw. If AM is out there and we lose the draw, the other team will play keep away for 60 to 90 seconds.

They don't need to or even try to score, they move the puck around, circle back, maybe make a line change and tire Matthews out. Then he has to go off and rest and might not see the ice again or if he does it is a minute or two later. We can go 3 minutes of OT without Matthews having touched the puck.

Kampf is decent on draws and a good skating, defending C. He is the guy you want on if the other team has the puck and the guy you immediately pull off if your team has the puck. This is not a role JT can play at all.

We have the second best points percentage in OT this year.

 

[ToneDog]

Need to lose in round 1 or 2 for Keefe to get fired. It is what it is.

 

[Jojalu]

Need to lose in round 1 or 2 for Keefe to get fired. It is what it is.

That would be a win-win for most no?

Either Keefe is fired, or the Leafs have made it into the 3rd round

 

[ToneDog]

That would be a win-win for most no?

Either Keefe is fired, or the Leafs have made it into the 3rd round

Unless you believe the previous GM who thinks Keefe will be a legend in 10 years, you can't bring him back after a 6th consecutive playoff failure, whether you are for or against Keefe.

 

[Gallagbi]

The point was how random of a decision it is.

If the goal is to use a faceoff specialist to win the draw and then get off....then why not use an actual faceoff specialist in Tavares who can also win you the game if he wins the draw.

You don't need to dig deep into stats. There is no universe in which Kampf is a better OT play than Tavares.

3 on 3 is so garbage. Once you lose the draw, it takes zero skill from the opposition to eat 1-2 minutes of the clock regardless who you have out.

....

They use Kampf as a defensive specialist, not a faceoff specialist. They're comfortable with him on the ice 3on3 if they lose the draw because it's a defensive situation.

Matthews doesn't start OT because they desperately needed a change once he and Marner were getting buried last year. I don't really care if they start Matthews now because last year was a fluke IMO, but there's a pretty logical reason why we do this

 

[IPS]

They use Kampf as a defensive specialist, not a faceoff specialist. They're comfortable with him on the ice 3on3 if they lose the draw because it's a defensive situation.

Matthews doesn't start OT because they desperately needed a change once he and Marner were getting buried last year. I don't really care if they start Matthews now because last year was a fluke IMO, but there's a pretty logical reason why we do this

You don't win 3 on 3 OT by being defensive.

It's stupid coaching dude.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

You don't win 3 on 3 OT by being defensive.

It's stupid coaching dude.

We had no other choice last year we were like 0-7 in OTs and Tavares and Matthews both looked brain dead out there. We put Kampf in and that swap won us games. We tried it a few this year and it hasn’t worked. I don’t imagine he will go to Kampf for a good while now.

In fact people were saying Keefe is stupid if he doesn’t start Kampf last season because it was going so well.

And just to add I don’t like Keefe I want him gone. But that was one of his better adjustments.

 

[IPS]

We had no other choice last year we were like 0-7 in OTs and Tavares and Matthews both looked brain dead out there. We put Kampf in and that swap won us games. We tried it a few this year and it hasn’t worked. I don’t imagine he will go to Kampf for a good while now.

In fact people were saying Keefe is stupid if he doesn’t start Kampf last season because it was going so well.

3 on 3 is a crap shoot with little structure. You give yourself the best chance to win with the best offensive players. Hilarious and bizarre things can happen like the stat you referenced, it doesn't mean you start David Kampf in over time.

Any other elite teams around the league doing this too or no?