What’s the team need?

[lanceuppercut75]

If we could by some miracle draft a Seider clone to play with Rielly, that'd be great.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I don't get this pride in something that's completely out of my sphere of influence and control to alter/change. Such a mindset is really a pleb thing. I didn't accomplish anything when my favourite team won a big game. I didn't fail when they failed to win. We should aspire to be more than a passive bystander wearing colours. Me painting a room or cooking a meal is more accomplishment than anything to do with my pastime as a Leafs' fan.

What's your view looking down from the cross like?

Elitist nonsense at it's finest can even be found in a hockey forum.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel the same way. The name of the team is the TORONTO Maple Leafs. This is our hometown team we are talking about ffs.

A representation of the pride we have for our great city.

You clearly don't feel the same way. And you have every right to feel the way you do. If having a loser mentality that allows you to cheer for losers making millions of dollars to play a game and lose makes you happy, that's good on you.

You would think the owner would feel different though.

I know I do and I'm just a fan.

 

[justashadowof]

What's your view looking down from the cross like?

Elitist nonsense at it's finest can even be found in a hockey forum.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel the same way. The name of the team is the TORONTO Maple Leafs. This is our hometown team we are talking about ffs.

A representation of the pride we have for our great city.

You clearly don't feel the same way. And you have every right to feel the way you do. If having a loser mentality that allows you to cheer for losers making millions of dollars to play a game and lose makes you happy, that's good on you.

You would think the owner would feel different though.

I know I do and I'm just a fan.

Wow, you really didn't like that "pleb" word.

There's nothing "elitist" about me whatsoever. I come entirely from the lowest of working class stock, the type of people who worked on other people's farms and mills, the type who never owned a property, the type unsuited to working indoors.

It is plebian to worship your accidental city of birth (or other happenstance). By talking about pride in your favourite team you place yourself at the bottom as some passive consumer of entertainment gruel you've learned to love. You invest your identity in a fake construct of being a Torontonian, a <local sports team> fan instead of identifying in what you create in the space around yourself. There's a reason why I mentioned painting a room and cooking a meal. Those are things YOU ACCOMPLISH. There is nothing elitist about painting your own room or cooking your own meal, it's the elite who don't do those things themselves.

I can understand the nature of trigger words. Pride is a trigger word for me. And not because of what you're thinking. It's misuse as a positive trait long pre-dates its current usage. It was for a long tradition a bad thing, one of the 7 deadly sins. Pride is actually bad for us. It makes us self-satisfied, tribal, jingoistic, many bad things. I'm sure you won't understand this paragraph because you use the word pride like it's an assumed good trait. I say its a bad trait. It's a personal failing. It's my pride that made me make this ridiculously long post. Cheers. I wish you the best.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Wow, you really didn't like that "pleb" word.

There's nothing "elitist" about me whatsoever. I come entirely from the lowest of working class stock, the type of people who worked on other people's farms and mills, the type who never owned a property, the type unsuited to working indoors.

It is plebian to worship your accidental city of birth (or other happenstance). By talking about pride in your favourite team you place yourself at the bottom as some passive consumer of entertainment gruel you've learned to love. You invest your identity in a fake construct of being a Torontonian, a <local sports team> fan instead of identifying in what you create in the space around yourself. There's a reason why I mentioned painting a room and cooking a meal. Those are things YOU ACCOMPLISH. There is nothing elitist about painting your own room or cooking your own meal, it's the elite who don't do those things themselves.

I can understand the nature of trigger words. Pride is a trigger word for me. And not because of what you're thinking. It's misuse as a positive trait long pre-dates its current usage. It was for a long tradition a bad thing, one of the 7 deadly sins. Pride is actually bad for us. It makes us self-satisfied, tribal, jingoistic, many bad things. I'm sure you won't understand this paragraph because you use the word pride like it's an assumed good trait. I say its a bad trait. It's a personal failing. It's my pride that made me make this ridiculously long post. Cheers. I wish you the best.

Is this how you feel when you watch the Olympics or the World Juniours?

Or is it just your hometown team you don't have any pride in?

At some point you have to take pride in something other than just yourself. It is solipsist to think the only thing worth caring about is your own accomplishments. Reeks of the "me first" attitude that is such so prevalent with this team.

Some might say it's downright egotistic.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

We have proven we aren't tough enough.
Trade
Marner 2 mil retained
maybe JT follows him 5 mil retained
1st 2023 + 1st 2024 + 2nd 2023 top prospect
Jamcrok
Brodie has lost a step

mathews 13 mil no more
nylander 9.5 mil no more

Sign
Schenn 2 mil
Gudas 3 mil
Soucy 3 mil
Hathaway 1.5 mil
Accuri 1.4 mil
ORielly 5.5 mil
Kampf 2 mil
Bertuzzi 4.5 mil
Killorn 4.5 mil

Trade for
Trent Fredrick RW 31 pts RFA 2 mil
Boston won't be able to sign him no cap space

Now we have a team built for a playoff war

Yes. This guys paying attention

 

[Leafshater67]

-Someone in the top 6 with a power game
-A room full of guys who hate losing
-An ultimatum to stick up for teammates. What happened to Knies and what was done about it was inexcusable. Someone on that ice should have threw their gloves off immediately and went after Bennett.
-a coach to hold their guys accountable
- a GM with the balls to shake things up when they’re not working

And most importantly at all, some mercy from Marner, Matthews and Nylander during contract negotiations. It’s unbelievable how Marner and Matthews were able to fleece Dubas and screw the entire team while the rest of the league’s budding stars are on 8x8 or close and we’re locked up from UFA’s. The NMC’s are the icing on the cake. This team is totally at the mercy of those 3.

 

[Budz]

I know I will take flack for this, but I didn’t think Matthews was horrible. A couple his posts - go in, it’s a different convo. I hope he stays, but if we need to trade ala MT you do it. He can’t walk for nothing.

Marner, HAS to go. He is not suited to playoff hockey.

Willie was ok results wise, but we need to be tougher and finish checks. He also has to go.

Tavares killed us. Sorry Captain, you got caved in 5v5. I would strip the C and try to trade him double trained.

Goaltending while not terrible - has to be upgraded.

 

[sxvnert]

The team needs to give Matthews & Nylander an ultimatum, agree to a deal by June 15th or we're trading you to the highest bidder.

Trade Marner regardless. After that last negotiation, he and his agent will become 100X more hostile towards the org.

Time to move on to the next core.

 

[thusk]

I know I will take flack for this, but I didn’t think Matthews was horrible. A couple his posts - go in, it’s a different convo. I hope he stays, but if we need to trade ala MT you do it. He can’t walk for nothing.

Marner, HAS to go. He is not suited to playoff hockey.

Willie was ok results wise, but we need to be tougher and finish checks. He also has to go.

Tavares killed us. Sorry Captain, you got caved in 5v5. I would strip the C and try to trade him double trained.

Goaltending while not terrible - has to be upgraded.

Whos shutdown kucherov line?

If marner is traded, matthews will not resign and probably nylander not resign too... so we start next season without marner, matthews and nylander... good luck

 

[Budz]

Whos shutdown kucherov line?

If marner is traded, matthews will not resign and probably nylander not resign too... so we start next season without marner, matthews and nylander... good luck

No worse than doing squat in the playoffs.
Most of these guys (Matthews aside) are not getting it done.

If Matthews is too much of baby to only sign if 88/16 are still here. Then he can f*** off too.

 

[Wendel17]

Leafs have .. 17 unsigned players coming up. They can do whatever they want.

I think moving 40 million dollars of cap space would do wonders. Tavares and Marner for younger cheaper hungrier talent We are going to lose points but gain wins in the play offs.

Keep Matthews, keep Nylander, Reilly, Oreilley, Accari, Schenn, Knies, Sammy, and Woll.

That’s 9/17

Use 40 million dollars to fill 8 spots. I think that is a huge opportunity right now to build the team we want with impact players.

This team has no heart, grit, fire, or will to win. Let's start with those four things first.

 

[thusk]

No worse than doing squat in the playoffs.
Most of these guys (Matthews aside) are not getting it done.

If Matthews is too much of baby to only sign if 88/16 are still here. Then he can f*** off too.

If both of 34/16/88 left, leafs will look like closer of 2010-2013 team than 2018-2023

Being on bottom of NHL missing you that much?

The reality is leafs dont really have choice to stick with core 4 right now

 

[Budz]

If both of 34/16/88 left, leafs will look like closer of 2010-2013 team than 2018-2023

Being on bottom of NHL missing you that much?

The reality is leafs dont really have choice to stick with core 4 right now

I respectfully disagree.
Rebuild would be fine

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Dreger on TSN:

*Leafs have lots of 'management types' part of the organization. Mentions both Gilman & Pridham, but believes team doesn't have interest in going back to a first-time GM again.

* Mentions Treliving's name. Praises Treliving for being brave to trade Tkachuk away (even though he lost the trade and had no choice but to move away an RFA who wouldn't sign...?), and thinks he might be a fit with Toronto.

* Bowman needs full approval from Bettman to rejoin the league, and speculates that he could be a qualified candidate.

*Doesn't think the Leafs can wait that long, because they need to get work done now.

* Thinks this becomes a huge factor for Matthews now - had a very close relationship with Dubas, and now becomes a big consideration not just for the extension but for the timing. Doesn't believe Matthews will be signed on July 1st.

* Thinks Matthews decision is also based on what happens to Marner. Wants Marner on the team .

* Doesn't know whether a new GM would want to make moves right away, or if he would want to consider waiting and getting a fuller scope of the organization and it's players.

This is amateur hour analysis.

Of all the factors a player would make when deciding to sign with a team, who the GM is might be the last consideration.

 

[GoBuds14]

Send Marner to Washington, bring back Wilson+. Marner helps Ovy get the record which is good for business, Leafs add a piece they’ve been missing for the last 2 decades

 

[kevsh]

-Someone in the top 6 with a power game
-A room full of guys who hate losing
-An ultimatum to stick up for teammates. What happened to Knies and what was done about it was inexcusable. Someone on that ice should have threw their gloves off immediately and went after Bennett.
-a coach to hold their guys accountable
- a GM with the balls to shake things up when they’re not working

Love this, especially the part about guys who hate losing.

Just once after all 7 times they've been knocked out of the playoffs I wanted to hear someone, anyone - the GM, the captain, the CEO, the backup goalie, the assistant trainer - come out publicly cursing and swearing about "enough is enough" and that this losing is unnacceptable.

It's easy to see why that's not the case, the softness and no accountability starts in the top floors of MLSE and runs right down this organization into the locker room, and sadly I don't see anyone, not the suits or Shanahan, having any inclination to change that culture.

 

[Tak7]

This is amateur hour analysis.

Of all the factors a player would make when deciding to sign with a team, who the GM is might be the last consideration.

Not saying Dubas is the only GM capable of "being nice", but you rather get the impression that Kyle went completely out of his way to make sure his players & their families were well looked after.

We all remember the scene of him running down the stairs while on the phone with Tavares' wife when he was injured. We know the story of him staying overnight on the road while Mikheyev got injured.

They sound like very basic things, but they can matter to people who prioritize how they and the people around them are treated. Hearing some of the stories of how he went above and beyond to ensure the staff around him were all looked after with their deals, even as he was in a lame duck position, really adds weight to the idea that he's a real people person - I think if that sort of stuff resonates for you as a player / staff member, then it makes perfect sense for you to be concerned about what might follow moving forward.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Not saying Dubas is the only GM capable of "being nice", but you rather get the impression that Kyle went completely out of his way to make sure his players & their families were well looked after.

We all remember the scene of him running down the stairs while on the phone with Tavares' wife when he was injured. We know the story of him staying overnight on the road while Mikheyev got injured.

They sound like very basic things, but they can matter to people who prioritize how they and the people around them are treated. Hearing some of the stories of how he went above and beyond to ensure the staff around him were all looked after with their deals, even as he was in a lame duck position, really adds weight to the idea that he's a real people person - I think if that sort of stuff resonates for you as a player / staff member, then it makes perfect sense for you to be concerned about what might follow moving forward.

No. I completely disagree.

Who the coach is might be the 6th or 7th consideration after salary, length of contract, housing, culture, schools (if you have kids), close to family and friends, etc. Cool/Nice Guy GM is not anywhere near the top.

I'm not saying that Kyle is not a nice guy. He's fine. But people often talk about how good Lou Lamoriello is with greeting families and players. Not every single free agent is flocking to Long Island based on his kindness.

 

[Tak7]

No. I completely disagree.

Who the coach is might be the 6th or 7th consideration after salary, length of contract, housing, culture, schools (if you have kids), close to family and friends, etc. Cool/Nice Guy GM is not anywhere near the top.

You don't know that, nor do you have any information to suggest this is accurate.

I'm just merely stating that a scenario does exist where the players valued their relationship with the GM, and his influence on the culture & mood of the team so highly, that there's now some built in doubt on how this all plays out.

For crying out loud, Rasmus Sandin was back at Leafs practice during the playoffs hanging out with coaching & management, AND THEY TRADED HIM AWAY.

I don't think you can be as dismissive as you are trying to be about it.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

You don't know that, nor do you have any information to suggest this is accurate.

I'm just merely stating that a scenario does exist where the players valued their relationship with the GM, and his influence on the culture & mood of the team so highly, that there's now some built in doubt on how this all plays out.

For crying out loud, Rasmus Sandin was back at Leafs practice during the playoffs hanging out with coaching & management, AND THEY TRADED HIM AWAY.

I don't think you can be as dismissive as you are trying to be about it.

I'm not being dismissive. If you want to believe that Kyle holds the key to happiness for TOR's players then they will most certainly will move on. How does Kyle plan on fitting all of them under Pittsburgh's cap?

I don't know all of the interpersonal stuff with Sandin, but most likely he still has a place to live in TOR.

 

[Tak7]

I'm not being dismissive. If you want to believe that Kyle holds the key to happiness for TOR's players then they will most certainly will move on. How does Kyle plan on fitting all of them under Pittsburgh's cap?

I don't know all of the interpersonal stuff with Sandin, but most likely he still has a place to live in TOR.

Plenty of players traded at the deadline have homes in the cities they moved from.

How many of them visit their old teams, and visit coaches / management casually in the middle of playoffs?

Again - I don't necessarily believe Kyle 'holds the happiness', but I'm saying to dismiss it as a factor would be silly. We know it is one.

 

[sunstersun]

The team needs to give Matthews & Nylander an ultimatum, agree to a deal by June 15th or we're trading you to the highest bidder.

Trade Marner regardless. After that last negotiation, he and his agent will become 100X more hostile towards the org.

Time to move on to the next core.

Why Nylander? His trade thing is just 10 teams.

 

[WillNy29]

This team has no heart, grit, fire, or will to win. Let's start with those four things first.

I don't know coming back from 4-1 down to win in OT and getting 3 overtime wins in 1 round kind of makes this sound dumb?

I respectfully disagree.
Rebuild would be fine

what are the odds we get lucky and get top end players versus ending up like buffalo did for 10 years lol

 

[myleafs]

Whos shutdown kucherov line?

If marner is traded, matthews will not resign and probably nylander not resign too... so we start next season without marner, matthews and nylander... good luck

I guess letting the inmates run the asylum is a strategy. I mean, what could go wrong?

 

[myleafs]

Not saying Dubas is the only GM capable of "being nice", but you rather get the impression that Kyle went completely out of his way to make sure his players & their families were well looked after.

We all remember the scene of him running down the stairs while on the phone with Tavares' wife when he was injured. We know the story of him staying overnight on the road while Mikheyev got injured.

They sound like very basic things, but they can matter to people who prioritize how they and the people around them are treated. Hearing some of the stories of how he went above and beyond to ensure the staff around him were all looked after with their deals, even as he was in a lame duck position, really adds weight to the idea that he's a real people person - I think if that sort of stuff resonates for you as a player / staff member, then it makes perfect sense for you to be concerned about what might follow moving forward.

I think its fine he treated people good but....what is the goal here? Create a nice cozy feeling around the rink or to win? Im all for the nice cozy feeling as long as they win or at the very least look like they are leaving it all out on the ice. Maybe some players need confrontation. Glen Sather used to talk about how he treated different players differently as they all had their own pressure points...eg. He would berate Paul Coffey in between periods in front of the whole team and Coffey would be pissed off by this but would play better whereas some players need a pat on the back as they would fall apart if treated like Coffey. So maybe its not as simple as a cookie cutter way of dealing with things, but more understanding what each individual needs to get going.